Expectations too high

[CAARHawk]

I agree 100%. There are opportunities, but I don't know how much of it is to be "expected". There are a lot of maybes there. I'd like to think Gesell becomes a much better shooter, which opens up the inside, but Oglesby's regression and his broken hand make me hesitate my enthusiasm slightly.

Oglesby will be holding down the end of the bench with Meyer. He will be a good team player who will not be a huge drop off when he comes in from a defensive and passing perspective. If he starts hucking misses, or the offense stalls when he comes in, Fran will pull him. He just needs to give guys breathers here and there. The guard rotation will be 1. Marble, 2. Gesell, 3. Clemmons, 4. Jok. 5. Ogs.

The forward rotation will be 1. White, 2. Uthoff, 3. Woody. 4. Gabe/Mel/Zach. 7. Meyer.

 

[Hawkstrat]

The Marble criticism is absurd.

 

[hawkfan33]

Oglesby will be holding down the end of the bench with Meyer. He will be a good team player who will not be a huge drop off when he comes in from a defensive and passing perspective. If he starts hucking misses, or the offense stalls when he comes in, Fran will pull him. He just needs to give guys breathers here and there. The guard rotation will be 1. Marble, 2. Gesell, 3. Clemmons, 4. Jok. 5. Ogs.

The forward rotation will be 1. White, 2. Uthoff, 3. Woody. 4. Gabe/Mel/Zach. 7. Meyer.

Your point about Ogelsby is correct, Iowa will improve its 3 point shooting next year simply by not having to have him take roughly 1/4 of all of Iowa's threes as Fran will have more options with Jok and Uthoff added to the rotation.

 

[sportstalent]

It isn't just 3-pt shooting that has to improve...shot selection must improve before percentages go up. Ball movement is the number one factor to that if a team has players that can't create so to speak. When Iowa moved the ball and didn't settle for shots they looked good.

On Marble, he was a player that was focused on in an article on ESPN titled 'Sneaky Good'. Honestly I DO NOT CARE how he projects to the NBA because the last time I checked he played college ball at Iowa. John was absolutely correct that Marble was the only player on the roster that could consistently create his shot...Marble is limited athletically and struggles against really athletic players no big shocker there, but he is a good player that I expect will have a Senior moment early in the season and lead Iowa this season.

 

[JonnyGuido]

The Marble criticism is absurd.

I do not think it is absurd, and I am not trolling. Marble struggled to compete against quality competition. He does some things well, but he is not a difference maker and I question his head and heart at times. In big games against good athletes his shooting was as follows: Wichita St 4-12, Iowa St 2-10, Indiana 1-14, Michigan 4-9, OSU 2-11, Purdue 2-11, Penn St 3-10, Wisconsin 1-10, MSU 3-9 (with a huge TO at the end of the game), and Baylor 3-12. That works out to 25% from our supposed best player.

And the NBA thing if I recall was something his dad was talking about too. There was plenty of conversation about it other than just quickly answering a reporter's question.

I also struggle with the fact that he seems to play/shoot his best when he has the ball. Our team would be better if he could play the 2 and let Gesell run the point, but he seems to need to dominate the ball to be effective. And I agree with an earlier poster who said he Cannot create his own shot- well he can create it, he just rarely makes it! I would prefer a different option at the end of close games next year, but that wont happen.

As for my expectations, I think we will end up middle of the pack in the Big Ten with MSU, Michigan, OSU, Indy and Wisconsin ahead of us. We have a brutal schedule and may finish at .500 and sneak into the tourney with an 8 or 9 seed. On a neutral court against an athletic bunch, we may lose in the first round. But to hear some people say we will finish 3rd in the Big Ten, that expectation is too high IMHO. I just dont think Marble is a "winner" so I am a bit of a downer because of him.

 

[deanvogs]

I do not think it is absurd, and I am not trolling. Marble struggled to compete against quality competition. He does some things well, but he is not a difference maker and I question his head and heart at times. In big games against good athletes his shooting was as follows: Wichita St 4-12, Iowa St 2-10, Indiana 1-14, Michigan 4-9, OSU 2-11, Purdue 2-11, Penn St 3-10, Wisconsin 1-10, MSU 3-9 (with a huge TO at the end of the game), and Baylor 3-12. That works out to 25% from our supposed best player.

And the NBA thing if I recall was something his dad was talking about too. There was plenty of conversation about it other than just quickly answering a reporter's question.

I also struggle with the fact that he seems to play/shoot his best when he has the ball. Our team would be better if he could play the 2 and let Gesell run the point, but he seems to need to dominate the ball to be effective. And I agree with an earlier poster who said he Cannot create his own shot- well he can create it, he just rarely makes it! I would prefer a different option at the end of close games next year, but that wont happen.

As for my expectations, I think we will end up middle of the pack in the Big Ten with MSU, Michigan, OSU, Indy and Wisconsin ahead of us. We have a brutal schedule and may finish at .500 and sneak into the tourney with an 8 or 9 seed. On a neutral court against an athletic bunch, we may lose in the first round. But to hear some people say we will finish 3rd in the Big Ten, that expectation is too high IMHO. I just dont think Marble is a "winner" so I am a bit of a downer because of him.

You are offering your opinion, and others are mostly disagreeing. Not a big deal, you don't think Marble is as good as 95% of this board does. You think that Iowa will finish exactly where they did last year (middle pack in the BIG), and most others think that Iowa will improve.

A lot of people just don't agree with your opinion/assessment of the team.

 

[PCHawk]

I do not think it is absurd, and I am not trolling. Marble struggled to compete against quality competition. He does some things well, but he is not a difference maker and I question his head and heart at times. In big games against good athletes his shooting was as follows: Wichita St 4-12, Iowa St 2-10, Indiana 1-14, Michigan 4-9, OSU 2-11, Purdue 2-11, Penn St 3-10, Wisconsin 1-10, MSU 3-9 (with a huge TO at the end of the game), and Baylor 3-12. That works out to 25% from our supposed best player.

And the NBA thing if I recall was something his dad was talking about too. There was plenty of conversation about it other than just quickly answering a reporter's question.

I also struggle with the fact that he seems to play/shoot his best when he has the ball. Our team would be better if he could play the 2 and let Gesell run the point, but he seems to need to dominate the ball to be effective. And I agree with an earlier poster who said he Cannot create his own shot- well he can create it, he just rarely makes it! I would prefer a different option at the end of close games next year, but that wont happen.

As for my expectations, I think we will end up middle of the pack in the Big Ten with MSU, Michigan, OSU, Indy and Wisconsin ahead of us. We have a brutal schedule and may finish at .500 and sneak into the tourney with an 8 or 9 seed. On a neutral court against an athletic bunch, we may lose in the first round. But to hear some people say we will finish 3rd in the Big Ten, that expectation is too high IMHO. I just dont think Marble is a "winner" so I am a bit of a downer because of him.

I love how you have Penn State and Purdue on that list. Even if you think they deserve to be on that list, we played them twice so you should list his stats from both games.

 

[deanvogs]

I love how you have Penn State and Purdue on that list. Even if you think they deserve to be on that list, we played them twice so you should list his stats from both games.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see he took Roy's bad games, forget the NIT games where he carried us to the championship game. In the 4 games leading up to the championship game RDM was:

32 for 65 for 49% from the floor
4.75 RPG
4.75 APG
2.5 Steals per game
24.25 PPG

Lets leave off his best games, and say they didn't matter......only look at his off nights. The reality of the situation is he was our leading scorer, a good rebounder for a guard, and a good assist man. He is a solid player that will probably improve again next year, as he has done the previous 2 seasons.

 

[hawkfan33]

I love how you have Penn State and Purdue on that list. Even if you think they deserve to be on that list, we played them twice so you should list his stats from both games.

He also left off the game at Indiana. I do agree with him that Marble is not an elite player who can consistently score against good teams all by himself, there are very few players like that out there. But when he just lists games where Mable has struggled and claims that it is a list of "big games", well that just looks likes trolling.

 

[JHHawk]

Dev is a solid college player who will earn a good living in Europe,most likely.
He came on very strong late in the year,after his ankle recovered.
Saying that the injury did not affect him is suggesting that his complete dropoff in play after the injury was just a coincidence....just wrong.

We are an ensemble team. No superstars,but 11 contributors.
We won 25 games despite shooting poorly from the arc.
We will shoot better from the arc this season.
Unless you really think that Fran is a liar, you know that Josh Oglesby will shoot better than 26% from the arc next year. I predict he will bounce back and shoot it at above 37%. Hoffarber of Minny had a sophmore slump from the arc,and then shot 50% the next years.

Dev is a good teammate,and is no ball hog,period.

My expectations are like a lot of the objective pundits from ESPN and elsewhere...Iowa will compete for the 4th-6th slot in the league,and make the tourny,and have a good chance at sweet 16.
That is not Iowa fans saying this...it is outside folks.

 

[HerkyDude]

Some of the times Marble had to get something going the clock was running down.

Basabe Clemmons and Olasani all contributed last year and should be better. Clemmons speed is impressive. He had 105 assists

 

[OLWPAORWWM]

Well yes obviously we don't know yet, no one can predict the future. I would be willing to wager a significant amount of money that Iowa shoots better from 3 this season than they did last year. Are you up for that?

I never claimed to predict the future. I am just saying that there are not enough factors in place for me to be certain the shooting is going to improve. I wouldn't wager in either direction Mr. Rockefeller.

 

[WindsorHawk]

I almost didn't open the thread based on the subject...obvious troll. I wish I had listened to my gut.

 

[RocknRollface]

Marble is a team guy. There are times when he takes a lot of shots and things might be better if he didn't, in general. Then again, when you look at the fact that he was the only guy last year who could consistently create his own shot, and there are times when that is necessary and Iowa shoots it so badly that there is plenty of help in the lane if he does drive, he is more contested.

Marble's fine, and I think you're trolling.

The outside shooting for this team could have meant the difference in three for four games last year, and Iowa is in the dance and 24 reg season wins.

I would say that he couldn't create his own shot consistently against good defense.

The OP is trolling but he brings up some legit issues even if hes exaggerating them.

 

[OUTofTOWNHAWK]

Duffman I see you.

 

[RocknRollface]

First of all, people who try to pin the NBA-after-his-Junior-year stuff to Roy Dev don't know what they're talking about. Do you know what happened? A reporter asked him if he was good enough to get drafted after his Junior year, would he declare? He said "yeah, sure." The question wasn't, "are you going to the NBA?" nor "do you think you're good enough to go pro?" If you were good enough. Hell, I'm sure Zach McCabe would have said the same thing. I'm sure Andrew Brommer would have.

Might I add that Roy Devyn Marble is as smart, consistent and unselfish a junior leading scorer as we've had around these parts in years. I don't know where the hate comes from. I'd take him over a Gatens, Recker, Horner or Pierce any day of the week.

Second of all, you could be right about our expectations. But NCAA's next year seems about as good a bet as I've made regarding an Iowa athletics post season in about ten years. I think our expectations are right where they should be. Upper-half conference finish and a 7-9 seed in the tourney. I'd put a Ulysses S. Grant on it.

Before the injury Recker was by far the best player Iowa has had since Woolridge.

 

[RocknRollface]

Two years ago, the team was terrible defensively. Last year it was a strength of theirs. Last year we couldn't hit the ocean from 3 pt land, this year I think we will see significant improvement. Fran knows what his teams weaknesses are, and he corrects them quickly.

Defense is something that can be changed far more than shooting.

And really Iowa got better on D primarily because they added two guys who could stay infront of opposing point guards and a space eater in the middle.

If Iowa gets better at shooting 3s IMO it will because of the new additions.

 

[hawkfan33]

I never claimed to predict the future. I am just saying that there are not enough factors in place for me to be certain the shooting is going to improve. I wouldn't wager in either direction Mr. Rockefeller.

How about this factor, the worse shooter in college basketball won't be taking 1/4 of the team's 3 point shots next year? That's enough of a reason for me to believe we will see improvement and Iowa will be a middle of the pack 3 point shooting team this year.

 

[Husky28]

I do not think it is absurd, and I am not trolling. Marble struggled to compete against quality competition. He does some things well, but he is not a difference maker and I question his head and heart at times. In big games against good athletes his shooting was as follows: Wichita St 4-12, Iowa St 2-10, Indiana 1-14, Michigan 4-9, OSU 2-11, Purdue 2-11, Penn St 3-10, Wisconsin 1-10, MSU 3-9 (with a huge TO at the end of the game), and Baylor 3-12. That works out to 25% from our supposed best player.

And the NBA thing if I recall was something his dad was talking about too. There was plenty of conversation about it other than just quickly answering a reporter's question.

I also struggle with the fact that he seems to play/shoot his best when he has the ball. Our team would be better if he could play the 2 and let Gesell run the point, but he seems to need to dominate the ball to be effective. And I agree with an earlier poster who said he Cannot create his own shot- well he can create it, he just rarely makes it! I would prefer a different option at the end of close games next year, but that wont happen.

As for my expectations, I think we will end up middle of the pack in the Big Ten with MSU, Michigan, OSU, Indy and Wisconsin ahead of us. We have a brutal schedule and may finish at .500 and sneak into the tourney with an 8 or 9 seed. On a neutral court against an athletic bunch, we may lose in the first round. But to hear some people say we will finish 3rd in the Big Ten, that expectation is too high IMHO. I just dont think Marble is a "winner" so I am a bit of a downer because of him.

Critisim that he's not team player? If your basing that off of those stats... those are not "all about ME" stats. If they were consistently in the 20 shot atttempt range, I would agree, but they're not. With this team's outside shooting woes... Who else was going to attempt those shots, last year? We all saw the lack of confidence JO seemed to have and it showed on his stats. So you tell me... who else was going to take those shots or attempts? With the exception of a couple of those teams, you are pointing too, they all played good defense from the inside out. That is, they forced Iowa to try and beat them from the outside. In typical fashion, the freshmen struggled against stronger teams, so we were left with one option. Marble. They were able to contain him with double teams, more often, then not. 9-12 shot attempts/game does not make one a selfish player. Anyone using those stats as support, either didn't watch the games or don't understand the game well enough to know what's going on.

Question: If he was 5 for 11 in another game, does that make him team player?

 

[theboat]

How about this factor, the worse shooter in college basketball won't be taking 1/4 of the team's 3 point shots next year? That's enough of a reason for me to believe we will see improvement and Iowa will be a middle of the pack 3 point shooting team this year.

Dan Dakich disagrees.

But either way you are right. Either he gets his head right and actually makes shots, or he rides the pine and misses 100% of the shots he doesn't take. Either way it gets better.