DSM history buffs - Des Moines Speedway?

[okeefe4prez]

Interesting stuff indeed. I luv racing history. My father and uncle dirt track raced in the mid to lat 60's and 70's for my uncle. My best friends father raced dirt back in the late 70's and in the 80's.

I might go to one of the dirt Bristol races next year. I skipped it this year because I wanted to see it on TV first. I won't do the 500 lapper, but maybe the truck or Busch Grand National race will be on my agenda for next year. Taking my boy down to Darlington again in 2 weeks. He's stoked. Darlington is one of the greatest tracks in the world.

 

[Luftgekuehlt67]

Great to see some race fans on HN!

As far as street courses go, I find for me it's kind of a hot/cold thing. The ones I like, I really like.

Monaco I think might be near the top of my must see races list every year. I watch every F1 race anyways, but Monaco just has something extra special about it. There seems to be a growing cacophony of complaints about the lack of passing but, for me it's one of those tracks that it's really the driver vs the track much more so than the driver vs the other drivers. And then of course you have the spectacle and tradition on top of that, pretty cool.

A couple in the 'States that I have always really enjoyed are Long Beach and Belle Isle (Detroit - Indy has run a Sat/Sun double header here for a number of years). Very interesting layouts and, while I don't think either is nearly at the Monaco level of a challenge, both have plenty of places where the difference between a fast lap and a wrecked car is a question of inches.

Probably more examples of street courses that just don't seem to quite work, now that I think of it. It's very easy for them to just feel a little shoehorned into the space without much visual spectacle or flow to the layout. I think Singapore, for me, is a good example. A lot of F1 fans hold that track in high regard, but I find it extremely dull and the corners to be all a bit same-y.

I have never actually attended a street race in person, but my understanding is the in person experience is generally pretty poor. Obviously, with Monaco, I think it would just be a thrill to be there soaking it all in even if you only can see a postage stamp size piece of the track. Belle Isle, as a counter example, might be better enjoyed from the couch. I don't know that for sure, but I'd certainly want to do some research on the in person experience before I book a flight to Dee-troit City.

I'm probably rambling more than a bit off topic, but I'll add as an aside that, if you ever get the chance to hit up an IndyCar race...do it. We went out to Laguna Seca a couple years back and I think I had almost as much fun as I do when I'm at a track to actually drive. We were going to either do Indy @ Laguna Seca or the USGP @ Austin and I left it entirely up to my son. I was secretly leaning USGP, but he said "Indy" immediately. For the price of a single day GA USGP pass, we got a weekend all-access pass for the Indy race and, wow, what an experience. I went assuming "all access" was mostly marketing speak but they weren't kidding. Close enough to touch the cars in a lot of cases, drivers walking right past you, etc. Hell, I met Mario Andretti! It was very cool. Race day itself was also awesome. We basically slow walked around the entire course and watched the action from every angle imaginable and then watched the last few laps from the top of the grandstands. Obviously, the experience may vary from track to track but, at Laguna Seca at least, it was 10/10.

 

[okeefe4prez]

Great to see some race fans on HN!

As far as street courses go, I find for me it's kind of a hot/cold thing. The ones I like, I really like.

Monaco I think might be near the top of my must see races list every year. I watch every F1 race anyways, but Monaco just has something extra special about it. There seems to be a growing cacophony of complaints about the lack of passing but, for me it's one of those tracks that it's really the driver vs the track much more so than the driver vs the other drivers. And then of course you have the spectacle and tradition on top of that, pretty cool.

A couple in the 'States that I have always really enjoyed are Long Beach and Belle Isle (Detroit - Indy has run a Sat/Sun double header here for a number of years). Very interesting layouts and, while I don't think either is nearly at the Monaco level of a challenge, both have plenty of places where the difference between a fast lap and a wrecked car is a question of inches.

Probably more examples of street courses that just don't seem to quite work, now that I think of it. It's very easy for them to just feel a little shoehorned into the space without much visual spectacle or flow to the layout. I think Singapore, for me, is a good example. A lot of F1 fans hold that track in high regard, but I find it extremely dull and the corners to be all a bit same-y.

I have never actually attended a street race in person, but my understanding is the in person experience is generally pretty poor. Obviously, with Monaco, I think it would just be a thrill to be there soaking it all in even if you only can see a postage stamp size piece of the track. Belle Isle, as a counter example, might be better enjoyed from the couch. I don't know that for sure, but I'd certainly want to do some research on the in person experience before I book a flight to Dee-troit City.

I'm probably rambling more than a bit off topic, but I'll add as an aside that, if you ever get the chance to hit up an IndyCar race...do it. We went out to Laguna Seca a couple years back and I think I had almost as much fun as I do when I'm at a track to actually drive. We were going to either do Indy @ Laguna Seca or the USGP @ Austin and I left it entirely up to my son. I was secretly leaning USGP, but he said "Indy" immediately. For the price of a single day GA USGP pass, we got a weekend all-access pass for the Indy race and, wow, what an experience. I went assuming "all access" was mostly marketing speak but they weren't kidding. Close enough to touch the cars in a lot of cases, drivers walking right past you, etc. Hell, I met Mario Andretti! It was very cool. Race day itself was also awesome. We basically slow walked around the entire course and watched the action from every angle imaginable and then watched the last few laps from the top of the grandstands. Obviously, the experience may vary from track to track but, at Laguna Seca at least, it was 10/10.

Monaco is the one race I really want to go see in person before I die. I pretty much quit watching NASCAR for the time being (got tickets off a credit) but if my son is really into it we'll do a few per year. It's easy because I'm within about 4 hours of all the great tracks: Dega, Darlington, Bristol and Martinsville plus Charlotte and ATL, both of which I find to be "meh."

But Monaco, man I love that race. I started watching F1 in the late '80's when I had a paper route. A lot of the races were on live when I would finish on Sunday morning. Watching Senna at Monaco was a treasure. I don't care how many races or titles Lewis Hamilton wins while wheeling the best car out there, Ayrton Senna is and will forever be the GOAT. Memorial Day Sunday I spend the whole day watching racing. Monaco, Indy, World 600. But I have found the 600 to have gotten pretty boring. It used to be an endurance race, but now it's just point and punch the throttle. I think the last one I watched Martin Truex led 396 out of 400 laps. Absolute snoozefest.

Though not as high on the bucket list, I do want to go to Suzuka with my son when he is old enough to fully translate to make sure we don't get lost. Last time I was in Tokyo it was during the F1 race in 2019 and I met a bunch of dudes who uniformly said "YOU HAVE TO GO TO AT LEAST ONE F1 RACE BEFORE YOU DIE." Suzuka is another classic track.

 

[Luftgekuehlt67]

Yeah, Suzuka is awesome - such an awesome track. I believe it was developed as a test track for Honda, and you can kind of tell from the layout - it's got a little of everything. That could easily feel very contrived and artificial, but the way it all comes together at Suzuka feels really smooth. A lot of fun and some classic moments!

If you ever make it, you have to post about the experience. I doubt I ever make it, but I've heard it's un-freaking-believable. The fans are crazy enthusiastic, but in a very unique Japanese sort of way - the crazy hats, costumes, etc. I love it, so unique! I don't know if this is still the case, but I know at one point thousands of people would stick around the circuit well after the race was over to watch a replay of the race on the big screens. Might be even nuttier this year with Tsunoda racing.

 

[uihawk82]

We went a few times. I liked getting to see the cars and stuff, but talk about a dud of a spectator event. First off, it was hotter than balls. Second, you could see the exit of one corner, the straightaway and the entry into another corner. After the first lap, there was a solid 1 second gap between pretty much everyone. Other than Monaco, there's just no need for city street GPs anymore.

It's unfortunate they couldn't have built the track at Newton with bigger stands so they could get a Winston Cup race, but prying a date off the calendar would have been tough. NASCAR built a shitload of cookie cutter 1.5 mile tracks that are Charlotte clones all over the country and Newton would have been a fantastic change of pace. Joliet (Chicagoland) is one of those cookie cutter tracks and they lost their race this year. NASCAR completely screwed the pooch by not getting a Cup race in Iowa and one in Ohio. IMHO, building unique tracks there would have served their brand much better than putting cookie cutter tracks on the outskirts of big cities, but the blow dried college boys who made the decisions of where to put tracks in the late '90's convinced themselves that the cities would be the way to go.

Yeah, Indy Car city type road course races just do not have the passing that their oval races do. It is hard to top ground effect Indy cars going 4 abreast at the Indy 500.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Great to see some race fans on HN!

As far as street courses go, I find for me it's kind of a hot/cold thing. The ones I like, I really like.

Monaco I think might be near the top of my must see races list every year. I watch every F1 race anyways, but Monaco just has something extra special about it. There seems to be a growing cacophony of complaints about the lack of passing but, for me it's one of those tracks that it's really the driver vs the track much more so than the driver vs the other drivers. And then of course you have the spectacle and tradition on top of that, pretty cool.

A couple in the 'States that I have always really enjoyed are Long Beach and Belle Isle (Detroit - Indy has run a Sat/Sun double header here for a number of years). Very interesting layouts and, while I don't think either is nearly at the Monaco level of a challenge, both have plenty of places where the difference between a fast lap and a wrecked car is a question of inches.

Probably more examples of street courses that just don't seem to quite work, now that I think of it. It's very easy for them to just feel a little shoehorned into the space without much visual spectacle or flow to the layout. I think Singapore, for me, is a good example. A lot of F1 fans hold that track in high regard, but I find it extremely dull and the corners to be all a bit same-y.

I have never actually attended a street race in person, but my understanding is the in person experience is generally pretty poor. Obviously, with Monaco, I think it would just be a thrill to be there soaking it all in even if you only can see a postage stamp size piece of the track. Belle Isle, as a counter example, might be better enjoyed from the couch. I don't know that for sure, but I'd certainly want to do some research on the in person experience before I book a flight to Dee-troit City.

I'm probably rambling more than a bit off topic, but I'll add as an aside that, if you ever get the chance to hit up an IndyCar race...do it. We went out to Laguna Seca a couple years back and I think I had almost as much fun as I do when I'm at a track to actually drive. We were going to either do Indy @ Laguna Seca or the USGP @ Austin and I left it entirely up to my son. I was secretly leaning USGP, but he said "Indy" immediately. For the price of a single day GA USGP pass, we got a weekend all-access pass for the Indy race and, wow, what an experience. I went assuming "all access" was mostly marketing speak but they weren't kidding. Close enough to touch the cars in a lot of cases, drivers walking right past you, etc. Hell, I met Mario Andretti! It was very cool. Race day itself was also awesome. We basically slow walked around the entire course and watched the action from every angle imaginable and then watched the last few laps from the top of the grandstands. Obviously, the experience may vary from track to track but, at Laguna Seca at least, it was 10/10.

I don't do road courses. Never got into them. For local Fri-Sun night racing watch, I prefer dirt over asphalt. I live 15 minutes from the Cedar Rapids track and have no desire to go there. Asphalt does nothing for me. I like the dirt, sliding, and challenge for the drivers. To me, asphalt is just watching cars go round and round.

Dirt is it for local racing, man.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Yeah, Indy Car city type road course races just do not have the passing that their oval races do. It is hard to top ground effect Indy cars going 4 abreast at the Indy 500.

Yes. I went to Indy in 1995 and there is nothing to match that sound on the very first lap when they come rumbling down into turn 1. The sound is amazing. I do enjoy that as those cars are different.

 

[Luftgekuehlt67]

Since this thread kind of morphed into am HN motorsports catch-all...

Anyone watch the 500 today? Great race, a lot of fun! Tremndous energy in the grandstands, green almost the whole way (I think only 2 cautions?) and ended with a surprise winner (of sorts).

Also, some great casual live TV f-bombs in the post race celebration, really funny!

 

[Luftgekuehlt67]

Since this is sort of the unofficial race thread, some good news in the world of IndyCar - coming back to Iowa in '22 for a double header:

IndyCar confirms Iowa return with 2022 doubleheader

The NTT IndyCar Series and Midwestern grocery chain Hy-Vee have united to bring the Iowa bullring oval back to the calendar in a new multi-year agreement. The 2022 doubleheader will feature the Hy-…

racer.com

Sounds like Hy-Vee made it happen. They've gotten very cozy with Rahal-Letterman-Lanigan it seems, to the point where Hy-Vee is basically going to be footing the bill for a 3rd RLL car (which of course will be absolutely covered in Hy-Vee branding).

IndyCar has been an absolute blast the last few seasons - best pure racing series in the world, IMO. Iowa in particular has created some phenomenal action. Unlike the superspeedways which, understandably, are sorta run on pins and needles, you see some serious dicing at Iowa. Guys really push each other, it's seat of the pants stuff if you like open wheel oval action! Of course, multiple lines w/the progressive banking, so you see a lot of side by side insanity (you find out pretty quick who guys trust and who they don't!)

 

[okeefe4prez]

Since this is sort of the unofficial race thread, some good news in the world of IndyCar - coming back to Iowa in '22 for a double header:

IndyCar confirms Iowa return with 2022 doubleheader

The NTT IndyCar Series and Midwestern grocery chain Hy-Vee have united to bring the Iowa bullring oval back to the calendar in a new multi-year agreement. The 2022 doubleheader will feature the Hy-…

racer.com

Sounds like Hy-Vee made it happen. They've gotten very cozy with Rahal-Letterman-Lanigan it seems, to the point where Hy-Vee is basically going to be footing the bill for a 3rd RLL car (which of course will be absolutely covered in Hy-Vee branding).

IndyCar has been an absolute blast the last few seasons - best pure racing series in the world, IMO. Iowa in particular has created some phenomenal action. Unlike the superspeedways which, understandably, are sorta run on pins and needles, you see some serious dicing at Iowa. Guys really push each other, it's seat of the pants stuff if you like open wheel oval action! Of course, multiple lines w/the progressive banking, so you see a lot of side by side insanity (you find out pretty quick who guys trust and who they don't!)

Damn, that is excellent news! I really wish Winston Cup could open up 2 dates a year and float them so that tracks like Iowa could get a Cup date once every 3 or 4 years.

Indy basically doesn't run superspeedways anymore, right? I thought the guy who died at Pocono was the last straw (aside from Indy, of course). I think they've got the cars to a point where a driver fatality is far less likely, but that the biggest hurdle now is the tendency of the wheels to fly into the stands when they crash over 220 mph. Probably can't get insurance underwritten anymore. That was what forced NASCAR to go with the restrictor plates. Bobby Allison ripping the fence down at 'Dega demonstrated the cars were too fast to be safe around the fans and you could easily rack up over a dozen fatalities with the wrong crash angle. Iowa is about the perfect size for those cars.

I also thought I saw some HyVee logos during Indy. I guess I wasn't hallucinating.

 

[Luftgekuehlt67]

Damn, that is excellent news! I really wish Winston Cup could open up 2 dates a year and float them so that tracks like Iowa could get a Cup date once every 3 or 4 years.

Indy basically doesn't run superspeedways anymore, right? I thought the guy who died at Pocono was the last straw (aside from Indy, of course). I think they've got the cars to a point where a driver fatality is far less likely, but that the biggest hurdle now is the tendency of the wheels to fly into the stands when they crash over 220 mph. Probably can't get insurance underwritten anymore. That was what forced NASCAR to go with the restrictor plates. Bobby Allison ripping the fence down at 'Dega demonstrated the cars were too fast to be safe around the fans and you could easily rack up over a dozen fatalities with the wrong crash angle. Iowa is about the perfect size for those cars.

I also thought I saw some HyVee logos during Indy. I guess I wasn't hallucinating.

Yeah, no superspeedways for the time being other than Indy. Pocono I think has come to be viewed as a veritable death trap in an IndyCar at this point. I don't think it was necessarily by decree, there were just enough bad accidents to make the whole thing unappealing.

I think the smaller ovals (Iowa and Gateway) are the most fun anyways.

Cup at Iowa would be fun, I'm kinda surprised they don't run it. It's a well done track. I'm not a NASCAR expert by any means, but I'd have to think Iowa would produce much better racing than a number of tracks that are on the schedule.

Not sure what Hy-Vee's deal is - really chasing the "40+ male who still thinks IndyCar is cool" demi, I guess? Whatever the reason, I'm very happy to see them throwing some serious cash at the series. Without them, you are likely -2 races (Iowa doubleheader) and -1 car. That's a pretty significant impact.

 

[Fryowa]

Damn, that is excellent news! I really wish Winston Cup could open up 2 dates a year and float them so that tracks like Iowa could get a Cup date once every 3 or 4 years.

Indy basically doesn't run superspeedways anymore, right? I thought the guy who died at Pocono was the last straw (aside from Indy, of course). I think they've got the cars to a point where a driver fatality is far less likely, but that the biggest hurdle now is the tendency of the wheels to fly into the stands when they crash over 220 mph. Probably can't get insurance underwritten anymore. That was what forced NASCAR to go with the restrictor plates. Bobby Allison ripping the fence down at 'Dega demonstrated the cars were too fast to be safe around the fans and you could easily rack up over a dozen fatalities with the wrong crash angle. Iowa is about the perfect size for those cars.

I also thought I saw some HyVee logos during Indy. I guess I wasn't hallucinating.

Yeah, no superspeedways for the time being other than Indy. Pocono I think has come to be viewed as a veritable death trap in an IndyCar at this point. I don't think it was necessarily by decree, there were just enough bad accidents to make the whole thing unappealing.

I think the smaller ovals (Iowa and Gateway) are the most fun anyways.

Cup at Iowa would be fun, I'm kinda surprised they don't run it. It's a well done track. I'm not a NASCAR expert by any means, but I'd have to think Iowa would produce much better racing than a number of tracks that are on the schedule.

Not sure what Hy-Vee's deal is - really chasing the "40+ male who still thinks IndyCar is cool" demi, I guess? Whatever the reason, I'm very happy to see them throwing some serious cash at the series. Without them, you are likely -2 races (Iowa doubleheader) and -1 car. That's a pretty significant impact.

How much is a weekend with decent seats/passes/etc for two people? I’d take my kid if it wasn’t ridiculously priced. Since I’m so far away I’d try to do a weekend with qualifying too just to make it worth it.

Can decent qualifying and race seats be done for a couple hundred bucks?

 

[Luftgekuehlt67]

How much is a weekend with decent seats/passes/etc for two people? I’d take my kid if it wasn’t ridiculously priced. Since I’m so far away I’d try to do a weekend with qualifying too just to make it worth it.

Can decent qualifying and race seats be done for a couple hundred bucks?

If you are thinking specifically of IndyCar, my son and I went out to Laguna Seca for the 2019 and it was incredible. We were split between going to the US GP or Indy @ Laguna Seca. I let him decide, he chose Indy...for the price of single day, extremely restricted admission down in Austin, we got Sat/Sun paddock passes out at the Indy race. When I got the tickets, I was thinking, "paddock access...yeah, right", but they weren't kidding. We could go wherever the hell we wanted throughout the entire facility. It was awesome! Close enough to touch the cars, drivers going by on scooters, Mario Andretti walked right past us, the works.

Looks like 2 day passes for Laguna Seca are going for $150 this year. Not sure about Iowa, but you'd have to think if anything they'll be cheaper. That race has been poorly attended lately, but I'd have to think Hy-Vee will be pimping the hell out of it this coming year. Iowa is also a completely different layout, so I'm not sure what kind of paddock access they will be doing, but IndyCar has a reputation for being fan friendly to an extreme. I have a pretty high degree of confidence the experience would be as up close and personal as safety and logistics would allow.

IIRC, tickets for the US GP that year were $175 for single day general admission.

 

[okeefe4prez]

How much is a weekend with decent seats/passes/etc for two people? I’d take my kid if it wasn’t ridiculously priced. Since I’m so far away I’d try to do a weekend with qualifying too just to make it worth it.

Can decent qualifying and race seats be done for a couple hundred bucks?

I took my whole family to a Saturday (minor league just under Cup) in Bristol for $42 two years ago plus $10 for parking. It cost my son and I $25 to go Darlington earlier this year (with free parking). The lower card races are super cheap. Cup will depend on the track and race, but probably $70-150 per seat depending on what you do. I don't recommend the super cheap seats. You can get into Cup races for $50 or less but the seats will be low. You do not want to be low because you can't see the other side of the track.