Ditch the Zone

H

HawkIPA

Well-Known Member
Because of the length Iowa has I wanted to see some zone this year on defense. Well I dont want to see it ever again.

This team cant play a zone defense effectively. They need to get tough and play the type of man to man we saw last year. Losing May and adding Uthoff and a little Jok should not affect the team defense as much as it has.
 
I really dont understand why we are so bad at zone but our man to man is probably just as bad. We don't have the athletes to play many teams straight up.
 
From what I witnessed last night and previous nights, our zone and man-to-man can easily be dissected with quicker guards...I would think because of our length that that wouldn't be possible, but it is a very big concern...lack of weak side support for help and rebounding...

What's the other thing most of us have noticed? There are several times where our "D" has their hands and arms down, instead of having them where they need to be....drives me crazy at times...
 
You expect guys like McCabe, Ogelsby, Uthoff and White to play solid man?

I'm starting to think our only solid defenders are Mike, Dev, Basabe, and Woody.
 
ibahawkeye said:
You expect guys like McCabe, Ogelsby, Uthoff and White to play solid man?

I'm starting to think our only solid defenders are Mike, Dev, Basabe, and Woody.
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Effort on the defensive end is the big thing. Last year Iowa was #22 in the nation in KenPom's adjusted D ratings.

This year the Hawks are 71st.

Basically swapping Uthoff for May is not a 50 spot swing.
 
ssckelley said:
No way can they ditch the zone, they don't have the players to run man to man.
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They did last year and as I just posted the only real difference is you lost May and add Uthoff.

Add in the improvements the guys should have made from last year to this year and consider it a wash.

It comes down to wanting to play defense.
 
HawkIPA said:
Effort on the defensive end is the big thing. Last year Iowa was #22 in the nation in KenPom's adjusted D ratings.

This year the Hawks are 71st.

Basically swapping Uthoff for May is not a 50 spot swing.
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I'm confused... are you trying to argue that it is the defensive effort or the type of defense?

Because you started the thread about zone but now you're talking about lack of effort.... which is it?
 
I think we have the athletes to play both man and zone; I would site as evidence that we have done just fine in most of our games; part of our strength is the ability to change up defenses and keep other teams guessing. However, IPA is right: The stats show a serious drop off this year. Although the loss of Eric May did not cause the large swing, we really do not have a player who can fill the role of a lock down defender who can chase both guards and forwards like EM could. Gatens played that role earlier on with great success.
 
HawkIPA said:
They did last year and as I just posted the only real difference is you lost May and add Uthoff.

Add in the improvements the guys should have made from last year to this year and consider it a wash.

It comes down to wanting to play defense.
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But losing May cost you a really good defensive player. IPA maybe I'm wrong, I am up to see Fran try anything at this point as giving up 188 points in 2 games is not going to get the job done. But in my mind I keep seeing Marble, Gesell, and Oglesby getting beat off the dribble and in a man to man defense a few good screens will net easy points.
 
ibahawkeye said:
I'm confused... are you trying to argue that it is the defensive effort or the type of defense?

Because you started the thread about zone but now you're talking about lack of effort.... which is it?
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Both. The poor effort in the man to man defense led to the switch to the zone which has been dreadful for the most part.
 
ssckelley said:
But losing May cost you a really good defensive player. IPA maybe I'm wrong, I am up to see Fran try anything at this point as giving up 188 points in 2 games is not going to get the job done. But in my mind I keep seeing Marble, Gesell, and Oglesby getting beat off the dribble and in a man to man defense a few good screens will net easy points.
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So what you are saying is May last year could single handedly make up for those guys getting beat off the dribble last year? I dont buy it. This was a good defensive team earlier this year and still can be.
 
We had been absolutely KILLING people with that zone earlier in the conference season and even up until a week ago.

It was practically the sole reason we were able to win at OSU. They couldn't figure it out at all.

It was one of the main reasons we were able to beat Michigan.

When it's working and players are communicating and have their hands up and are active, it's a tough defense to contend with because of our length. But we haven't done ANY of that in our last 3 games.
 
Can't just abandon zone. Team is long but not quick. That is a recipe for a zone, not a man to man. Whatever they play, it's gotta be with a helluva lot more effort than what there has been lately.
 
HawkIPA said:
So what you are saying is May last year could single handedly make up for those guys getting beat off the dribble last year? I dont buy it. This was a good defensive team earlier this year and still can be.
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Well being that May usually took on the opposing teams toughest assignment, yeah. Who does Iowa have that is your stopper?

If Iowa had May last night they beat Indiana and no way does Sheehey score 30.
 
HawkIPA said:
Both. The poor effort in the man to man defense led to the switch to the zone which has been dreadful for the most part.
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Look... i don't think any of our D has been effective these past couple of games.

I guess what I don't get is how you compare this year to last years defensive stats and talk just specifically about the zone.

I know we played zone last year. Are we playing more this year than last?
 
I think the zone is important for our long term defensive success, we just need play it with more focus. We have been routinely losing people in our zone, whether its cutters, shooters, or guys just standing under the basket. Our communication in the zone has to improve.

We also need to focus on transition defense, obviously. That is simply effort, focus, and coaching. We routinely failed to stop the ball in transition or get back in transition.

I think we also need to evaluate our "playing fast." I think a common thread throughout the season has been when we face adversity, or instincts are often to go even faster. We shoot quicker, go one-on-one more, and that leads to giving up transition offense on long rebounds and turnovers. We dig ourselves into an even bigger hole.

Indiana can't score in the half-court. We get were up 8 or so in the second half, why we didn't slow tempo a little bit to limit their transition offense is beyond me.
 
I do think that the loss of Eric May has had a big effect, mainly because we have no one that size to replace him. The best scorers in the league are all that size....Stauskas,Petteway, Harris, Decker.. and the last two games it was Hollins and Sheehey....both around 6'6''. We do not have that stopper that size, leaving only Devyn to guard those wing types that most teams feature...several of them at the same time also.

So, that leaves us needing to go zone more than Fran probably wants.
It works ok when they shoot badly, if we get back and set up before a transition bucket.
Gabe once again showed his lack of bb instincts several times last nite with his zone defense, allowing guys to get behind him...cardinal sin.
Still, we need to be a mix of defenses...to change the tempo and momentum.
 
ssckelley said:
Well being that May usually took on the opposing teams toughest assignment, yeah. Who does Iowa have that is your stopper?

If Iowa had May last night they beat Indiana and no way does Sheehey score 30.
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I think you are overvaluing May's contributions last year. I think he had a fantastic season last year and produced much more than I expected him to but he only averaged 21.8 minutes per game last season.

So to use your reasoning, he was only on the opponents toughest assignment for about half the game last year.
 
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