I agree with you in the sense that Iowa did not want to red shirt him this season, but I think the bigger issue is that fact that they ever offered him in the first place. He may be able to block shots, but he brings nothing to the offensive end which is just not a good fit for this "system". It is painfully obvious that he has only played a few years of organized basketball and I just don't see where he gets any meaningful minutes the next two seasons.
Devon Archie
- Thread starter theboat
- Start date
I agree with you in the sense that Iowa did not want to red shirt him this season, but I think the bigger issue is that fact that they ever offered him in the first place. He may be able to block shots, but he brings nothing to the offensive end which is just not a good fit for this "system". It is painfully obvious that he has only played a few years of organized basketball and I just don't see where he gets any meaningful minutes the next two seasons.
I guess I can't say one way or the other because I still have only seen clips of his play at Vincennes. So I don't feel too informed to make a comment on whether or not he'll play much for team or why he was recruited. It sounds like offensively he's pretty raw. But the clips I saw of him showed an athleticism that isn't present on this team. It looked like he could block some shots and rebound pretty well.
People talk about our lack of athleticism and its true, we aren't very athletic at all. It appears that Archie brings that to the table. So maybe he won't be all that productive on the offensive end, but what he'll be able to provide on defense as well as just having to go against him in practice can be seen as some positive things he'll bring.
People talk about our lack of athleticism and its true, we aren't very athletic at all. It appears that Archie brings that to the table. So maybe he won't be all that productive on the offensive end, but what he'll be able to provide on defense as well as just having to go against him in practice can be seen as some positive things he'll bring.
FreddyBrown
Moderator
The answer to the question of whether it was a wise decision to redshirt Archie will be determined by two things:
1. Is he any good?
2. Does Lick survive beyond next season?
If either of those things doesn't turn out to be the case then IMO it was a bad decision. He would have been a better player in 2010-11 if he had gotten some experience this season, even if only for half of the Big Ten schedule. There is no teacher like experience. But if he turns out not to be a signficant contributor in any event, it was clearly a waste of the program's resources to spend three years of scholarship on him instead of just two.
As you might glean from what I've said, I think they should have played him this season as soon as he was healthy enough to play. But if Lick is still around for a fifth year and Archie is a key contributor, Lick will look pretty smart for making the decision he made.
SteveGarvey
Well-Known Member
It's fine to have a Dennis Rodman type player..........as long as you have Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen type players on your team. Not exactly seeing that talent level on the Hawks. I'd rather have a guy who can play both ways myself. If he's another Looby, I'm disappointed frankly.
Seems like a gamble, huh?
The other factor to also consider, though, is what's best for the kid?
Having watched him shoot around CHA, the thought "how did he ever learn to shoot like that" comes to mind far to often. The problem is that this team is not in the position to simply have solid practice players, they need playmakers. In terms of athleticism I actually think the frontcourt players (minus Cougill) are at the Big Ten level of athleticism, it is the backcourt that needs the significant boost.
There it is. By redshirting him, we reduce our schollys in 2011 to just one, unless we make another mistake by banking tuckers. Recruiting for 2011,in theory, should mean going after better talent with the new facility coming on-line as those recruits begin school at Iowa...so,in a perfect world, Archie plays Jan-March this year, gets some experience in a lost season, then contributes to a turnaround season in 2010-11, with Iowa using that momentum and the new facility to get a Randle and a quality big man to come in the fall.
Now, we have Archie for two more years, only one scholly next year,which always makes it harder to get a Randle type...(nobody likes to be the only new guy by himself)...and getting that quality prep big man is postponed another year....bad plan,imo.
FreddyBrown
Moderator
I struggle with how much that should factor into the equation. You'd love to be able to say "we always do what's best for the kid," but then you have to take into account what's best for the program, don't you? Arguably most, if not all, players will be better if they have an extra year to work on their game, but clearly no Division I basketball program could afford to redshirt every player at some point in his career.
Because of that I think the general standard has to be the best interests of the program, not the player. Often those two things will coincide, but not always. Maybe Archie needs another year of scholarship to get his degree. Maybe even after a RS year he won't contribute meaningfully but would be marginally better prepared for pursuing his dream of playing in a lower level league overseas. I think the decision this year was tough because of how long he was sick or injured or both, but I still would have come down in favor of playing him to get him ready for next season. But the coaches saw him, and they made the decision, so I just hope it will work out for the best of the program.
parquet
Well-Known Member
Well, J. Johnson at Purdue is thin, but it's a bit "stretch" to make any comparisons with him, I guess.
GhostofBTT
Banned
Can someone please explain all of the Kurt Looby hate?
busabus114
Well-Known Member
I dont think its hate - just pointing out that adding Kurt Looby to this Iowa team doesnt make us much better imo. We struggle to score the way it is and adding a post with limited offensive skills isnt a great fit. Looby was a good fit for the teams he played on. We had Haluska and Smith to carry the scoring load and all he had to do was block shots and throw down the occasional alley oop.
Wiskys last four redshirts:
Robert Wilson- now a sophmore in the rotation poised to step in as a starter next year.
Evans- now a frosh,who is in their rotation...could be a three year starter.
Bergrenn- now a frosh, who will be in the rotation next year,for the next 3 years.
Butch- 4 year starter.
Iowa:
Sommerville- redshirted then left without ever playing at Iowa
Angle- redshirted his junior year...never made the rotation.
Lil Lick- in the rotation,but just barely.
Archie- a reserve in Juco, total unknown,lightly recruited by mid-majors.
Bo Ryan seems to be better at this than SA and Lick.
Robert Wilson- now a sophmore in the rotation poised to step in as a starter next year.
Evans- now a frosh,who is in their rotation...could be a three year starter.
Bergrenn- now a frosh, who will be in the rotation next year,for the next 3 years.
Butch- 4 year starter.
Iowa:
Sommerville- redshirted then left without ever playing at Iowa
Angle- redshirted his junior year...never made the rotation.
Lil Lick- in the rotation,but just barely.
Archie- a reserve in Juco, total unknown,lightly recruited by mid-majors.
Bo Ryan seems to be better at this than SA and Lick.
GhostofBTT
Banned
My point is, would it make the team better or worse to have a Kurt looby player in there.
It would make the team deeper, and I darn sure would have rather seen Archie guarding DeShawn Sims, Raymar Morgan or Juwaun Johnson than anyone else on the roster. At least he would have the size and athleticism to stay with those types of guys who have torched the Hawkeyes this season.
GhostofBTT
Banned
Kind of my thinking. People here seem to think Archie is hogging the schollie of the second coming of Oscar Robinson. This team needs more role players who can contribute to the team positively, and less assuming we are going to start recruiting the best players in the country.
Iowa is now a school where projects end up.
busabus114
Well-Known Member
Better, but we would still suck
IATrainMaster101
Well-Known Member
I don't understand how it is a forgone conclusion that Archie will not be an offensive contributor. I am not suggesting that he is a sure fire offensive performer, or even that he is as good on the defensive end as Looby was.
With that said I can say with confidence that the little bit of video I saw of Archie, showed me a player that offensively was much further along than Looby was coming in to Iowa. Admittedly it was only 3 minutes of video, however before Looby got on campus I don't think that you could scrape 3 minutes of video that showed offensive potential beyond a dunk.
I just think it's unfair for anyone at this point to conclude that Archie definitely is or isn't anything other than 6'9" and athletic (which seems to be consistently documented).
With that said I can say with confidence that the little bit of video I saw of Archie, showed me a player that offensively was much further along than Looby was coming in to Iowa. Admittedly it was only 3 minutes of video, however before Looby got on campus I don't think that you could scrape 3 minutes of video that showed offensive potential beyond a dunk.
I just think it's unfair for anyone at this point to conclude that Archie definitely is or isn't anything other than 6'9" and athletic (which seems to be consistently documented).
Fans who saw him in PTL and have seen him in practice continue to say he is very raw on the offensive end. Hopefully he will improve by next year. But, when a 6'9'' athletic player only draws interest,and no offers from IUPUI and Fordham, besides Iowa, it is unlikely that he does not have flaws of some sort, or Valpo or other area schools would have shown interest,don't ya think?
IATrainMaster101
Well-Known Member
I think it's more than fair to think he is raw and that there are / were flaws to his game, however I don't think its necessarily fair to say things like he is an offensive black hole or to conclude that he absolutely will not contribute on that end of the court.
The conversation just seems to have taken the tone of it being a near certainty.
The conversation just seems to have taken the tone of it being a near certainty.
