Dear Disney-Espn-Abc Pinheads;

HawkGold said:
Dean, I expect sports participation and popularity of sports to DECLINE across the board. That said, soccer is not offered in many rural areas where football is played. You do know that high school boys soccer is growing and is about 44% of the number participating as football? You do know that rosters are typically limited in soccer to under 20? You do realize that high school soccer numbers combined boys and girls is about 75% of football?

It's not going to happen next week or next year. Come back in about a decade.

One of the biggest changes is that young people used to get together and play football as fun. We used to smear each other. You just don't see it anymore. You do see soccer and lot's of it if you get outside of really small town Iowa. Go to any university that has rec turf fields and are they playing football or soccer at night? Granted many who don't stay in shape can't do soccer and young people in shape can.

My high school was a football power and had huge numbers. Yes the enrollment has declined, but they have barely 20 kids out for their now 8 man team. Years ago, the Iowa Sporting Newspaper (don't remember what it was called) did an article when this school lost. For decades it rarely happened. A few years back they had something like 90 points put on them in 8 man. They used to score that many in 11 man.

A local high school that would be 4A in Iowa was a football power and had only 12 kids go out for Freshman football so they cancelled the season.

Maybe get in shape....and try soccer or figure out some activity as football in 20 years isn't going to be the same. Dolph said there were plenty of tickets left for PSU as of Saturday. Seriously?
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I was told 30 years ago, 20 years ago and 10 years ago to come back in 10 years. You cite growing numbers of youth playing soccer to prove that this means it will overtake other spots. In 1985 there were approximately 1 million youths soccer players. In 2014 there were over 3 million. That is a 200% increase, so why hasn't professional soccer in the US seen an similar spike in attendance and TV popularity? Instead MLS soccer ratings are sagging, and only 1 extra % of American's say Soccer is their favorite sport. If a 200% participation increase over the last 30 years created a 1% spike in Soccer, how in the world can you believe what you say?

You mock Iowa not selling out Penn St, but keep this in mind. In a state of less than 3 million people, Iowa will average 69K fans a game and even ISU will average 55-60K. Seattle and Atlanta outdraw every other MLS soccer team in attendance and they have a population of about 3.6 and 5.6 million (nearly 10 million combined) and they only get about 45K per game. Iowa and ISU aren't even close to being the top attended college football games, and Seattle and Atlanta are far and away the most attended MLS teams. Not only that, they have 3 times the population to draw upon in a much closer proximity to the teams.
 
Participation numbers aren't always going to jive with tv ratings. I don't think baseball gets the highest of national tv ratings either (outside WS) But participation in that is off the charts I bet. It's just a boring game to watch on tv as is soccer. There are a ton of parents that tolerate taking their kids to play it but you couldn't pay to have them watch it...
 
Hawkfnntn said:
Participation numbers aren't always going to jive with tv ratings. I don't think baseball gets the highest of national tv ratings either (outside WS) But participation in that is off the charts I bet. It's just a boring game to watch on tv as is soccer. There are a ton of parents that tolerate taking their kids to play it but you couldn't pay to have them watch it...
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Exactly. Youth baseball and softball is on the rise again: http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/...all-softball-participation-on-the-rise-051817

I don't anticipate this to lead to better baseball ratings or attendance numbers. I think all team sports are going to see a decline in TV ratings and attendance numbers. People aren't going to replace an exciting sport like football, baseball or basketball with a boring sport like Soccer. They instead will just cut sports out altogether, or just not follow at much.
 
deanvogs said:
I was told 30 years ago, 20 years ago and 10 years ago to come back in 10 years. You cite growing numbers of youth playing soccer to prove that this means it will overtake other spots. In 1985 there were approximately 1 million youths soccer players. In 2014 there were over 3 million. That is a 200% increase, so why hasn't professional soccer in the US seen an similar spike in attendance and TV popularity? Instead MLS soccer ratings are sagging, and only 1 extra % of American's say Soccer is their favorite sport. If a 200% participation increase over the last 30 years created a 1% spike in Soccer, how in the world can you believe what you say?

You mock Iowa not selling out Penn St, but keep this in mind. In a state of less than 3 million people, Iowa will average 69K fans a game and even ISU will average 55-60K. Seattle and Atlanta outdraw every other MLS soccer team in attendance and they have a population of about 3.6 and 5.6 million (nearly 10 million combined) and they only get about 45K per game. Iowa and ISU aren't even close to being the top attended college football games, and Seattle and Atlanta are far and away the most attended MLS teams. Not only that, they have 3 times the population to draw upon in a much closer proximity to the teams.
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You turn everything into an argument. Hardly mocking Iowa.... but I am shocked. NFL is only played 1 x per week. MLS more. As millennials age, it will grow. Fact is that all sports are having numbers issues. You obviously don't hang with professional millennials much.
 
Hawkfnntn said:
Participation numbers aren't always going to jive with tv ratings. I don't think baseball gets the highest of national tv ratings either (outside WS) But participation in that is off the charts I bet. It's just a boring game to watch on tv as is soccer. There are a ton of parents that tolerate taking their kids to play it but you couldn't pay to have them watch it...
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I'm the last person to want baseball to decline, but participation is up, following dismal times. Baseball is becoming a white kids sport which is where most numbers have declined (minorities). Our local youth program has seen a massive decline in rec, but a hefty increase in clubs. The club numbers don't make up for the loss of rec kids. That is where the disconnect is. Will also show up in talent as well as club kids with money don't correlate to great athletes always. About every MLB game now has bloopers you rarely used to see. Granted there is more coverage..a lot more, but even games I've attended see things you just didn't use to see.
 
BryceC said:
I used to agree with you. In fact I hated soccer 10 years ago. However I have a 7 year old and it's easily his favorite sport. I've enjoyed watching him compete and learn the game partially because I know absolutely nothing about it so I get to learn along with him.

I agree that USA soccer is stuck in the mud because quite frankly our best athletes do not play soccer. Until the Allen Iverson's, LeBron's, and that level of athlete starts playing soccer young we'll always be a step behind, and honestly whatever I'm not emotionally invested in how good USA soccer is. However, I went to a Sporting KC game this year with my kids and there was a great fanbase there. Atlanta recently had over 70k at a match for their MLS team, which plenty of NFL teams would love to have. The support for local teams at the MLS type level is absolutely new.

I know of several 3A schools in the area that have under 20 kids playing football in a junior high class. when I was in school 20 years ago now, there were like 3 kids in my entire 3A class of about 100 boys that didn't play football in junior high. I don't think we're going to turn on the TV tomorrow and be inundated with soccer. However I think there is much different structural support for soccer in the US that there wasn't when Pele showed up.

You want to know what I like most about soccer? You know you're getting in and out of a soccer game in under 2 hours. When you have baseball and football over 3 (and sometimes 4) hours, and even some basketball games going 2 1/2, our traditional sports are becoming absurdly long.
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Thumbs up.

1. Was 70K for a match in Atlanta a one off? What were ticket prices? Free promotions?

2. With soccer now an option at HS level at more schools, the kid's that aren't as big and muscular and overall as talented have an option to get cheerleaders to cheer for them instead of sitting on the bench on the football team. But I understand that is changing too for talented kids to play soccer.

3. The length of the popular American sports has gotten long in the clock not because of the game itself but because they are popular and businesses are demanding more frequent and longer commercial breaks. and there are reviews too because the fan wants to get it right.

If soccer were ever to get popular enough like football or basketball, you will see commercial breaks put in the game. And then fans will demand reviews on penalties.

4. The offside rule in soccer is dumb. Defenses abuse the rule too much. Get rid of that rule and allow some scoring.
 
HawkGold said:
You turn everything into an argument. Hardly mocking Iowa.... but I am shocked. NFL is only played 1 x per week. MLS more. As millennials age, it will grow. Fact is that all sports are having numbers issues. You obviously don't hang with professional millennials much.
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You just don't like it when people disagree with you and challenge your narrative. You say that in 10 years Soccer will be surpassing other sports. I am saying I have been hearing this exact narrative for a long, long time, and it hasn't happened yet, and it won't in another 10 years either.

Speaking of arguments, why did you carry this crap over to another thread about cord cutting. Jesssshhhhh
 
deanvogs said:
That is all anecdotal evidence you guys bring up. The fact is very few American's view soccer as their favorite sport. This myth that soccer will just explode in another 10, 20, 30 years has been around forever. The numbers clearly show this is a myth. In 1985 3% of American's claimed soccer was their favorite sport. 30 years later that number is a whopping 4%.
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Listen I'm not claiming soccer is going to reign supreme. That's honestly not going to happen in my lifetime if it does at all. My point is that soccer has a foothold now that it didn't have 20 years ago when I was in school. I couldn't play soccer at the high school level in central Iowa even if I wanted to. Now everybody has it.

According to your link men's soccer is only behind the NHL and NBA by one percentage point. It's not king football, that's for sure, but it's definitely carved out a place in the American sporting landscape.

deanvogs said:
Exactly. Youth baseball and softball is on the rise again: http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/...all-softball-participation-on-the-rise-051817

I don't anticipate this to lead to better baseball ratings or attendance numbers. I think all team sports are going to see a decline in TV ratings and attendance numbers. People aren't going to replace an exciting sport like football, baseball or basketball with a boring sport like Soccer. They instead will just cut sports out altogether, or just not follow at much.
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You might be the first person I've heard call baseball exciting in a long time, and per your link it's had an 8% decline in favorite sport status.
 
BryceC said:
Listen I'm not claiming soccer is going to reign supreme. That's honestly not going to happen in my lifetime if it does at all. My point is that soccer has a foothold now that it didn't have 20 years ago when I was in school. I couldn't play soccer at the high school level in central Iowa even if I wanted to. Now everybody has it.

According to your link men's soccer is only behind the NHL and NBA by one percentage point. It's not king football, that's for sure, but it's definitely carved out a place in the American sporting landscape.



You might be the first person I've heard call baseball exciting in a long time, and per your link it's had an 8% decline in favorite sport status.
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I find baseball an oddity. While it isn't "exciting" per say, each team averages 4-6 runs per game, so you have runs being scored. It blows my mind of how much of a spectator sport baseball still is. The attendance numbers are crazy. 73 million people watched baseball games in 2016, the 11th best ever. http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/mlb-attendance-drops-1-1-percent-still-11th-highest-season-100516

Also baseball has done a great job with the online portion of it, and the regional relationships with the TV markets. Baseball might not be the #1 sport for American's, but fans are certainly still coming out to games, and the financial health of baseball is strong.
 
Agreed. They do a great job with their live product, and IMO a day at the diamond is a good time.

Let me also say that I have been to at least one Royals, Sporting KC, and Chiefs game every year for a good long while, and I'm a season ticket holder for MBB and football at ISU, and have gone to various other olympic sporting events in the last few years including a women's soccer game just a few weeks ago. My wife watches the Royals almost every day. There are places for all of these sports to thrive.
 
BryceC said:
Agreed. They do a great job with their live product, and IMO a day at the diamond is a good time.

Let me also say that I have been to at least one Royals, Sporting KC, and Chiefs game every year for a good long while, and I'm a season ticket holder for MBB and football at ISU, and have gone to various other olympic sporting events in the last few years including a women's soccer game just a few weeks ago. My wife watches the Royals almost every day. There are places for all of these sports to thrive.
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Agreed.

It is funny though that baseball is considered a "dying" sport while drawing 73 million fans a year to the ball parks. So attendance is still very good. While it isn't as popular as it once was, it has found a way to carve out success at a local market level on TV. Kansas City is the perfect example of this. I think soccer should be focusing more on the baseball model building at a local level.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...me-time-television-ratings-for-each-team/amp/
 
HawkGold said:
Millennials that play/played high school athletics oft have more going out now for soccer than football in many schools where both are offered, even during the same sports season. Go to a high school and watch the kids on the soccer team v those from football and tell me where the better athletes are at. Boomers are now in the age group where they just don't spend money.

My kids who range from HS to a lawyer do pay attention to Euro soccer and football. ESPN isn't completely devoid of intelligence. They know who will butter their bread in 20 to 30 years, or even now.

Football is a diminishing sport. No gonna change.

As per the comment about Caribbean athletes, MLB has quite a few players of that origin. American football is played...ummmm in America, the US ones and not other places much except for the Canadian version. Japanese baseball would win a World Series periodically if given he chance.
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Soccer is boring.
 
To each their own I guess. If you just follow the ball, then yes. But the formation and adjustments that are made throughout the field are intriguing to me. The strategy of the game is very cool to me.
 
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