cully payne vs. jeff horner freshman stats

T

TalkHawk

Well-Known Member
In another thread, it was suggested cully's game was not that impressive. Suggesting he will never be a "superstar."

I have no idea what that means, superstar. John Wall is a superstar IMO.

Jeff Horner was not a superstar. Honorable mention all america I believe- one of my favorite hawks in the last 10 years. But not a superstar.


I thought it would be interesting to compare there freshman stats.


Jeff Horner as a freshman-

-averaged 8.2 points per game

-shot 33% from the floor and only 27% from 3 point land.

-140 assists- 77 turnovers -



Cully Payne as a freshman- SO FAR:

-averaging 8.2 points per game

-shooting 38% from the floor and 36% from 3 point land.

-on pace for around 120 total assists for the season and 90 turnovers.
 
Courtesy of Urbandictionary.com
1. Superstar
--one who is unique and beautiful both inside and out; a bright-shining and/or lovely thing to behold
--Amidst the sea of faces, one stood out- that of the superstar destined for greatness not because of some strange alignment of the stars, but because of all that made him who he was.

>_>

But on topic, thanks for looking up those stats, pretty interesting
 
Lets just get it out of the way that I am not suggesting Payne is as good as Horner or will be.

I dont know, they are different types of players in my mind.


I think what the stats show more than anything that playing the point as a frosh is difficult.

Cully is doing a respectable job and we will see how much he progresses.

He is off to a deascent start for a freshman IMO.
 
Dean Olivers freshman stats:


-8.8 points per game

-37% fg

-32% 3 pt range


-131 total assists / 72 Turnovers



Interesting to see his progression as a 3 point shooter. Only 63 attempts as a freshman, 98 as a sophomore, 125 as a junior, and 179 as a senior.

Percentage went from 32, 37, 32, to 36% as a senior.


Dean played 25 minutes per game as a freshman.


Cully is having to log 32 minutes per game all ready as a frosh.


Cully is also a better 3 point shooter at this point in his career.
 
Dean was ranked 4th in the big 10 in assists his frosh year.


Right now Cully is ranked 8th.


Dean turned the ball over 2.3 times per game as a freshman- as a sophomore Dean turned the ball over 3.1 times per game, which was 4th worst in the big ten.

As a sophomore Dean averaged 28.6 minutes per game.

Cully is turning the ball over 3.067 times per game. playing 32 minutes per game.


Cully needs to improve his turnover rate, but Dean Oliver turned the ball over more as a sophomore playing less minutes.


Something to think about.
 
Mateen Cleaves averaged 10.2 points per game as a freshman.

Cleaves turned the ball over 4.0 times per game.

1.2 Assist/turnover ratio as a freshman.


Cully Payne has a 1.2 Assist/turnover ratio as a freshman.



Playing the point as a frosh has its challenges apparently that need to be taken into consideration.
 
Last edited:
TalkHawk said:
Cully needs to improve his turnover rate, but Dean Oliver turned the ball over more as a sophomore playing less minutes.


Something to think about.
Click to expand...

Also don't forget to take into account the contrasting styles of play that Payne and Oliver played in. Oliver played in a much more up-tempo game that would naturally produce a few more turnovers with more possessions and a bit more "reckless" style of play, for lack of a better word, while Payne is in a walk-it-up-the-court system. Not making excuses for Oliver, but just wanted to throw that out there.
 
1977Hawkeye said:
Also don't forget to take into account the contrasting styles of play that Payne and Oliver played in. Oliver played in a much more up-tempo game that would naturally produce a few more turnovers with more possessions and a bit more "reckless" style of play, for lack of a better word, while Payne is in a walk-it-up-the-court system. Not making excuses for Oliver, but just wanted to throw that out there.
Click to expand...

I would argue that Payne has more opportunities for turnovers in Lick's patient offense. The more patient the shooters are, the more passes per possession are required because those passes are less likely to result in shot attempts, and each pass has the chance to result in a turnover. And if we had bigger big men, more of his interior passes would become assists and he'd be able to complete lob passes more safely. Our 6'5" to 6'7" guys being defended by 6'11" players just aren't going to be able to create the angle necessary to complete a lob.
 
Statistics are just that...often you are comparing apples to oranges simply because there are to many variables to factor in. Unless you are comparing apples to apples the stats are meaningless in most cases.

Right now, IMO I would gladly take Mateen Cleaves, Dean Oliver, or Horner as freshmen over Cully Payne...I don't know about any of you?

But they also would be in one hell of a bad situation because they would also be the ONLY ball handlers on the court and that is what is handicapping Payne. Iowa simply has no ball handlers. A Big 10 team with no ball handling guards. I never thought I would see the day.

For opposing teams that makes a easy team to prepare for on the defensive end of things one would think, especially if that team has a bunch of quick guards like most Big 10 teams have. Lickliter has put himself into a BIG hole, one of which he probably he cannot get out of.
 
TalkHawk said:
In another thread, it was suggested cully's game was not that impressive. Suggesting he will never be a "superstar."

I have no idea what that means, superstar. John Wall is a superstar IMO.

Jeff Horner was not a superstar. Honorable mention all america I believe- one of my favorite hawks in the last 10 years. But not a superstar.


I thought it would be interesting to compare there freshman stats.


Jeff Horner as a freshman-

-averaged 8.2 points per game

-shot 33% from the floor and only 27% from 3 point land.

-140 assists- 77 turnovers -



Cully Payne as a freshman- SO FAR:

-averaging 8.2 points per game

-shooting 38% from the floor and 36% from 3 point land.

-on pace for around 120 total assists for the season and 90 turnovers.
Click to expand...

I think that helps put fans in check. He's still a freshman, running with talent far less developed than Horner had.
 
NewMexHawk said:
Statistics are just that...often you are comparing apples to oranges simply because there are to many variables to factor in. Unless you are comparing apples to apples the stats are meaningless in most cases.

Right now, IMO I would gladly take Mateen Cleaves, Dean Oliver, or Horner as freshmen over Cully Payne...I don't know about any of you?

But they also would be in one hell of a bad situation because they would also be the ONLY ball handlers on the court and that is what is handicapping Payne. Iowa simply has no ball handlers. A Big 10 team with no ball handling guards. I never thought I would see the day.

For opposing teams that makes a easy team to prepare for on the defensive end of things one would think, especially if that team has a bunch of quick guards like most Big 10 teams have. Lickliter has put himself into a BIG hole, one of which he probably he cannot get out of.
Click to expand...



In part I agree with you, however, comparing stats is about as "apples to apples" as you are going to get.

You could say that for everything then really.

You can't travel in a time machine and have Cully recreate every situation that Dean was in, or Horner was in, and be guarded by the same players and run the same plays.
So in that sense, ok, its apples to oranges.

You could say that about anything then. You can't say one kid who maintained a 4.0 gpa throughout high school is a better student than a kid that maintained a 3.3 gpa then.
they were involved in different activities and had different schedules and did not take the exact same teachers nor get taught everything the same word for word by their respective teachers. One kid had a girlfriend and the other one didn't. Can't compare. Apples to oranges.

Point being, Stats are the closest measurable data you can use to at least try to compare a players season to each other.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Share this page

Top