Cubs moves

[ssckelley]

I think Soriano needs to go too. If they are going to throw money around this off-season I'd like to see them throw it a top notch GM (Beane or Epstein).

Who is going to take Soriano off the Cubs hands? He is going to get paid $18 million over the next 3 years. There is no one that will be willing to pay that much for a bad defensive player that strikes out a ton. His only asset is once or twice a year he will go on a tear and hit a bunch of home runs. I cannot think of a team that would even be willing to pick up 1/2 his salary for that kind of production.

 

[tm3308]

For the first 2 years that deal did not look bad at all as the Cubs were able to win the division in 2007 and in 2008 had the best record in the NL. They are stuck with him for another 3 years but I hope that does not keep them from going after one of these 2 prized firstbasemen.

I do not think any team would be willing to go 10 years on either of them. There is a chance with Fielder since he is younger but teams are going to want club options or to hit certain thresholds in order to guarantee the back end of that contract.

So we got 2 years worth out of a 7 year deal for our money. We got less from Zambrano, and even less from Fukudome. And I'm not sold on the notion that Pujols or Fielder will give us more than 2-3 years of good to great production. Which doesn't help us a lot, because we aren't contending in the next 2-3 years with or without them.

Forget winning right now. We need to build to win the long haul. Applying band-aid after band-aid is what got us in this mess in the first place.

 

[bws258]

1. sell the team to Mark Cuban

no? not going to happen? ok, here's a start ...

1. re-sign Aramis for 3 years, understanding he is not a leader, but he is a great producer.
2. re-sign Ryan Dempster for 3 years, understanding he is a solid #3 starter
3. re-sign Kerry Wood to a 2 year deal (no-brainer)
4. trade Marmol
5. trade Zambrano ... I still like Z, but he needs a change of scenery.
6. clear the way for Tony Campana to start in CF
7. make a run at Fielder or Pujols, but don't go crazy for them

this list is incomplete

 

[hawkfarmer]

So we got 2 years worth out of a 7 year deal for our money. We got less from Zambrano, and even less from Fukudome. And I'm not sold on the notion that Pujols or Fielder will give us more than 2-3 years of good to great production. Which doesn't help us a lot, because we aren't contending in the next 2-3 years with or without them.

Forget winning right now. We need to build to win the long haul. Applying band-aid after band-aid is what got us in this mess in the first place.[/QUOTE]

This is the most important thing to remember. This is rebuilding, have to tear down and start over. Adding Prince and Wilson would be great, but not going to help the team for a few years. in a year or 2 more players will be FAs or availble during trade. I think the Cubs need to be patient and get rid of some of the dead money they have right now. in 1 or 2 years then I think some money can get spent, as hopefully we can bolster the bullpen. I think letting guys like marmol and Byrd and Soto go for good prospects is a good plan. also, I don't see Cashner as a long term solution as a starter, he's been likened to K. Wood which I can see injury wise as well.

Also, to the poster that put David Wells (he's old) I think you meant Randy.

Also, when Scott Kazmir got released I said the cubs should sign him and see if he can rebuild his career as a cubby

 

[ssckelley]

So we got 2 years worth out of a 7 year deal for our money. We got less from Zambrano, and even less from Fukudome. And I'm not sold on the notion that Pujols or Fielder will give us more than 2-3 years of good to great production. Which doesn't help us a lot, because we aren't contending in the next 2-3 years with or without them.

"Our" money? You are not paying a dime for any of these players. If you think this impacts ticket prices you are wrong as the Cubs will charge what they can get regardless of how big the payroll is.

The question is who they spend the money on, that is what you and I really should care about and this is where having a good GM comes in to play. The Cubs spent $134 million in 2011 and are committed to about $73 million for 2012. I am guessing around 15 million will get paid out in arbitration eligible players. That leaves ~45 million in payroll for a new GM to come and rebuild a team with another 19 million coming off after 2012 (Zambrano). Ramirez will cost $14 million

Forget winning right now. We need to build to win the long haul. Applying band-aid after band-aid is what got us in this mess in the first place.

Forget about winning right now?!? The Cubs have not won a World Series since 1908 nor have they been in one since 1945. While I get the Cubs need to rebuild their farm system if there is a player they can get in Free Agency that can help the team win now and in the future then they need to go out and get them. It would be nice to see the Cubs in the World Series in my lifetime.

Also, to the poster that put David Wells (he's old) I think you meant Randy.

I fixed it, my bad. But I think everyone knew who I was talking about.

 

[hawkfarmer]

"Our" money? You are not paying a dime for any of these players. If you think this impacts ticket prices you are wrong as the Cubs will charge what they can get regardless of how big the payroll is.

The question is who they spend the money on, that is what you and I really should care about and this is where having a good GM comes in to play. The Cubs spent $134 million in 2011 and are committed to about $73 million for 2012. I am guessing around 15 million will get paid out in arbitration eligible players. That leaves ~45 million in payroll for a new GM to come and rebuild a team with another 19 million coming off after 2012 (Zambrano). Ramirez will cost $14 million





Forget about winning right now?!? The Cubs have not won a World Series since 1908 nor have they been in one since 1945. While I get the Cubs need to rebuild their farm system if there is a player they can get in Free Agency that can help the team win now and in the future then they need to go out and get them. It would be nice to see the Cubs in the World Series in my lifetime.

1 or 2 players isn't goig to take them to the World Series. They have many holes to fill. Getting Wilson and Prince will win you a few more games, but not enough to be competitive.

 

[ssckelley]

1 or 2 players isn't goig to take them to the World Series. They have many holes to fill. Getting Wilson and Prince will win you a few more games, but not enough to be competitive.

Wilson and Prince will not get you to the World Series next year but could in 2013 or 2014 and they are available now. I do think they would be much more competitive in 2012 with them as basically you are exchanging Zambrano & Pena for Wilson & Fielder. I would guess they would have made this years team at least a .500 team if not better. As I pointed out in my previous post there is money to be spent. We need a good GM that will spend it the right way.

The Cubs just signed what many experts say is one of the best drafts in baseball. You might start seeing some of these young players as early as 2013. Keep in mind there is a nice looking CF prospect in the minors with Jackson and Welington Castillo is looking like a nice catcher prospect. Castro is only going to get better defensively and offensively so there are pieces in place now with more to follow.

 

[tm3308]

"Our" money? You are not paying a dime for any of these players. If you think this impacts ticket prices you are wrong as the Cubs will charge what they can get regardless of how big the payroll is.

The question is who they spend the money on, that is what you and I really should care about and this is where having a good GM comes in to play. The Cubs spent $134 million in 2011 and are committed to about $73 million for 2012. I am guessing around 15 million will get paid out in arbitration eligible players. That leaves ~45 million in payroll for a new GM to come and rebuild a team with another 19 million coming off after 2012 (Zambrano). Ramirez will cost $14 million



Forget about winning right now?!? The Cubs have not won a World Series since 1908 nor have they been in one since 1945. While I get the Cubs need to rebuild their farm system if there is a player they can get in Free Agency that can help the team win now and in the future then they need to go out and get them. It would be nice to see the Cubs in the World Series in my lifetime.



I fixed it, my bad. But I think everyone knew who I was talking about.

You're going to nit-pick at the uses of "our" and "we"? Really?

Fielder and Wilson would make the team better, but not THAT much better. Which is the whole point. Why spend all of your money on big free agents that aren't going to help you contend right now? Build up the farm system first, that way the big free agent can serve more as the final piece of the puzzle, rather than the foundation upon which everything else is built. Because if we only get 3-4 good/great years out of Fielder, then 2-3 of those years will have been wasted on bad teams. That's not a solid investment, IMO.

I know the Cubs haven't been to a WS since '45. But a big reason for that is that the team has made moves to "win now" when they weren't in a position to do so, with or without the moves they made. They continuously tried to take short cuts, and it's left them with the mess that we're looking at right now.

 

[ssckelley]

You're going to nit-pick at the uses of "our" and "we"? Really?

Did not mean to nit pick. But I have heard a number of fans think these payrolls is "our" money since we are the ones paying for the tickets. In a small market this might be the case but not for the Cubs. I took it wrong so I appologize.

Fielder and Wilson would make the team better, but not THAT much better. Which is the whole point. Why spend all of your money on big free agents that aren't going to help you contend right now? Build up the farm system first, that way the big free agent can serve more as the final piece of the puzzle, rather than the foundation upon which everything else is built. Because if we only get 3-4 good/great years out of Fielder, then 2-3 of those years will have been wasted on bad teams. That's not a solid investment, IMO.

I disagree, if 1 or 2 of those years makes us a playoff team with a chance to win a World Series then I call it a solid investment. It is not to often a big time run produces becomes available in free agency. If you pass on it now then a player like that may not be available when you do have a decent team.

I know the Cubs haven't been to a WS since '45. But a big reason for that is that the team has made moves to "win now" when they weren't in a position to do so, with or without the moves they made. They continuously tried to take short cuts, and it's left them with the mess that we're looking at right now.

This is where a good GM comes in. Hendry made some good moves to get the Cubs to the playoffs in 2007 & 2008. But he made a huge mistake throwing a ton of money at Zambrano after he had already proven he was a head case. Milton Bradley (later Silva) was another dumb move as both players were horrible in the clubhouse. I will give you the Soriano contract as who would pay anyone $18 million per year for someone in their late 30's? I really cannot blame him for Fukudome as he looked really good coming from Japan and I want a GM who is willing to take a chance. I look at the farm system, or the lack thereof, and it is not pretty either.

 

[Hawkeyes1982x]

You definitely have to go out and get one of the big 1B.

 

[tm3308]

Did not mean to nit pick. But I have heard a number of fans think these payrolls is "our" money since we are the ones paying for the tickets. In a small market this might be the case but not for the Cubs. I took it wrong so I appologize.



I disagree, if 1 or 2 of those years makes us a playoff team with a chance to win a World Series then I call it a solid investment. It is not to often a big time run produces becomes available in free agency. If you pass on it now then a player like that may not be available when you do have a decent team.



This is where a good GM comes in. Hendry made some good moves to get the Cubs to the playoffs in 2007 & 2008. But he made a huge mistake throwing a ton of money at Zambrano after he had already proven he was a head case. Milton Bradley (later Silva) was another dumb move as both players were horrible in the clubhouse. I will give you the Soriano contract as who would pay anyone $18 million per year for someone in their late 30's? I really cannot blame him for Fukudome as he looked really good coming from Japan and I want a GM who is willing to take a chance. I look at the farm system, or the lack thereof, and it is not pretty either.

Agree to disagree I guess on Fielder. But I still feel that the farm system needs to be the first priority. While Boston certainly has a big payroll, and they have their share of free agents/trade acquisitions, a very good portion of their key players came from within the system: Pedroia, Ellsbury, Youkilis, Bucholz, Papelbon, Lester, Bard, and Varitek (or at least he was once a key contributor).

They've had some free agency flops, too (Dice-K and John Lackey spring to mind), but they've remained competitive anyway, thanks in large part to the homegrown talent. That's the sort of model I want the Cubs to have, because it's the best way to MAINTAIN success, rather than just giving themselves a 2-3 year window before sucking again.

 

[ssckelley]

Interesting development with Guillen going to the Marlins, Zambrano may join him there according to the Chicago Tribune. Evidently Guillen and Zambrano are good friends.

 

[HawkeyeMike23]

Interesting development with Guillen going to the Marlins, Zambrano may join him there according to the Chicago Tribune. Evidently Guillen and Zambrano are good friends.

And Z will then go 20-7 with a 2.50 ERA for Marlins and shut out the Cubs a cpl times.

 

[bws258]

Interesting development with Guillen going to the Marlins, Zambrano may join him there according to the Chicago Tribune. Evidently Guillen and Zambrano are good friends.

Maybe we can trade Z to Miami for Hanley Ramirez

 

[SDK46]

 

[SDK46]

Cubs fans........

 

[TheRothman]

1. Assign Crane Kenney to a new position having to do with facilities, stadium upgrades, etc... nothing to do with baseball operations or the president position.
2. Hire Pat Gillick as President.
3. Hire Rick Hahn, Billy Beane, Andrew Friedman, or Billy Beane as the new GM
4. Fire Quade
5. Hire Sandberg
6. Exercise Aram option, he turns it down and walks without the Cubs paying any buyout.
7. Sign Fielder to a 5 year deal. Vogelbach should be ready by then.
8. Bring back Dempster at a 3 year deal.
9. Sign CJ Wilson to a 5 year deal.
9. Trade Zambrano to the Marlins. He is friends with Ozzie already rumors out there.
10. Trade for JA Happ or John Danks
11. Trade or release Soriano. Bring Jackson up.
12. Trade Marmol, Flaherty, Vitters, and pitching prospect for David Wright.
13. Sign Wright to a 3 year extenstion.
14. Add a veteran back-up catcher like Pudge.
15. Add more to the bench like Greg Dobbs and Johnny Gomes.
16. Resign Kerry Wood.
17. Angel Guzman named as closer next season.

If they did this going into next year looks really good!

1. Brett Jackson CF
2. Marlon Byrd RF
3. David Wright 3rd
4. Prince Fielder 1st
5. Starlin Castro SS
6. Tyler Colvin/LaHair LF
7. Geovany Soto C
8. Darwin Barney/Lamehiue 2nd
9. Pitcher

Rotation
1. Matt Garza
2. CJ Wilson
3. Ryan Dempster
4. JA Happ/John Danks
5. Andrew Cashner

Pen
Guzman
Marshall
Shark
Wood
Russell
Carpenter
Berg

Bench
Pudge
LaHair/Colvin
Barney/LaMeiuh
Gomes
Marwin Gonzales

That is what I would do!

 

[hawkfarmer]

1. Assign Crane Kenney to a new position having to do with facilities, stadium upgrades, etc... nothing to do with baseball operations or the president position.
2. Hire Pat Gillick as President.
3. Hire Rick Hahn, Billy Beane, Andrew Friedman, or Billy Beane as the new GM
4. Fire Quade
5. Hire Sandberg
6. Exercise Aram option, he turns it down and walks without the Cubs paying any buyout.
7. Sign Fielder to a 5 year deal. Vogelbach should be ready by then.
8. Bring back Dempster at a 3 year deal.
9. Sign CJ Wilson to a 5 year deal.
9. Trade Zambrano to the Marlins. He is friends with Ozzie already rumors out there.
10. Trade for JA Happ or John Danks
11. Trade or release Soriano. Bring Jackson up.
12. Trade Marmol, Flaherty, Vitters, and pitching prospect for David Wright.
13. Sign Wright to a 3 year extenstion.
14. Add a veteran back-up catcher like Pudge.
15. Add more to the bench like Greg Dobbs and Johnny Gomes.
16. Resign Kerry Wood.
17. Angel Guzman named as closer next season.

If they did this going into next year looks really good!

1. Brett Jackson CF
2. Marlon Byrd RF
3. David Wright 3rd
4. Prince Fielder 1st
5. Starlin Castro SS
6. Tyler Colvin/LaHair LF
7. Geovany Soto C
8. Darwin Barney/Lamehiue 2nd
9. Pitcher

Rotation
1. Matt Garza
2. CJ Wilson
3. Ryan Dempster
4. JA Happ/John Danks
5. Andrew Cashner

Pen
Guzman
Marshall
Shark
Wood
Russell
Carpenter
Berg

Bench
Pudge
LaHair/Colvin
Barney/LaMeiuh
Gomes
Marwin Gonzales

That is what I would do!

David Wright?! What, are you kidding? Why. In your scenario you gave up a whole lot to get David Wright. I would give that up in a heart beat for Longoria, but not Wright, he is washed up.

Now you have a lot of moves, and a lot of trades, where are these prospects for trades coming from. The system isn't deep enough. Also, I don't think that lineup gets you past .500. And you want Guzman who has pitched about 2 uninjured innings as your closer. hmmm.

No way you trade for Danks, not worth prospects and Dempster shall not get a 3 year contract. That payroll would be huge too, especially if you have to eat any of Z or Soriano's contract, which they will. Plus, you have done nothing but deplete the farm system which currently has very little anyway.

 

[Section136]

I would be ecstatic if the Cubs hire Beane as their GM. SI had an article on Moneyball this past week saying Beane could build a Red Sox like power out of a franchise if he just had the resources of a big market team to play with.

The Cubs have those resources.

 

[ssckelley]

I would be ecstatic if the Cubs hire Beane as their GM. SI had an article on Moneyball this past week saying Beane could build a Red Sox like power out of a franchise if he just had the resources of a big market team to play with.

The Cubs have those resources.

Beane is 2nd on my wish list for potential Cubs GM after Epstein. I think he would be great establishing a solid scouting system and rebuilding the minors. He is a good judge of talent so I think he would spend the Cubs money wisely.

1. Assign Crane Kenney to a new position having to do with facilities, stadium upgrades, etc... nothing to do with baseball operations or the president position.
2. Hire Pat Gillick as President.
3. Hire Rick Hahn, Billy Beane, Andrew Friedman, or Billy Beane as the new GM

I like your Beane choice.

4. Fire Quade
5. Hire Sandberg

Quade is only signed for 1 more year so I don't think he is going anywhere. It puzzles me how no one outside of Chicago thinks Sandberg would make a good manager. I have a ton of respect for the guy and I was a big fan of Ryno in his playing days. I want to see him back with the Cubs organization but get his feet wet as bench coach or something. Whoever the GM will be will want to bring in one of his own guys if Quade does not get the job done next year.

6. Exercise Aram option, he turns it down and walks without the Cubs paying any buyout.

Exactly! Aram knows if he chooses FA that he will be the top 3rd basemen available. The Cubs need to exercise the option and if he takes it then the Cubs will have a motivated Aram wanting to put up big numbers next year. If he walks then the Cubs saved 2 million.

7. Sign Fielder to a 5 year deal. Vogelbach should be ready by then.

I like it but I think it will take more than 5 years to get Fielder.

8. Bring back Dempster at a 3 year deal.

This is up to Dempster, he has a big player option that I cannot see him passing up.

9. Sign CJ Wilson to a 5 year deal.

I honestly do not think this is possible unless they lose on the Fielder/Pujohs sweepstakes. CJ Wilson is about the only true #1 available and it will take crazy money to get him. I think the Cubs have a #1 in Garza, while his record did not show it he had some awesome performances ruined by no run support. I would settle for an Oswalt as a #2 in a heartbeat.

9. Trade Zambrano to the Marlins. He is friends with Ozzie already rumors out there.

This might actually happen. The Marlins say they are willing to open up the pocket books a little to fill that new stadium. I would be happy if they just took 1/2 of Zambrano's 19 million dollar salary for next year.

10. Trade for JA Happ or John Danks

I will pass. I do not know who you would be trading to get them but the Cubs actually have a decent bullpen.

11. Trade or release Soriano. Bring Jackson up.

I do not think there is any reason to rush Jackson unless he goes nuts in spring training. He needs to start in AAA. Soriano has been good in the clubhouse and I think is still serviceable as a platoon player with LaHair in left. The Cubs are desperately shopping Soriano and are willing to pay a huge chunk of his salary and I do not see it happening.

12. Trade Marmol, Flaherty, Vitters, and pitching prospect for David Wright.
13. Sign Wright to a 3 year extenstion.

The minors is weak anyway, trading away what few prospects the Cubs have does not sound like a good move at this point. Pitching talent is hard to find and in this deal I think the Cubs could make a move straight up for Marmol without giving up the farm. In fact I am not so sure the Cubs could not get a prospect thrown into the deal from the Mets. The Mets want to reduce payroll and Wright is set to make 15 million next year and has a club option in 2013 for 16 million (with a 1 million buyout). Marmol is set to make 7 million next year and 9.8 million in 2013 which is cheaper then the previous closer they had (Francisco Rodriquez).

The Cubs would then turn around and go after one of these FA closers that will be on the market. Francisco Rodriquez might be available at a decent price.

14. Add a veteran back-up catcher like Pudge.

I like this and there is a crapload of FA catchers available. I have never understood why the Cubs keep signing light hitting catchers that are not even all that great defensively. I am done seeing Hill and would rather even see the Cubs call up Steve Clevenger who also bats lefthanded and has hit for a decent average in the minors.

15. Add more to the bench like Greg Dobbs and Johnny Gomes.

Or resign Reed Johnson, Jeff Baker, and Blake Dewitt. As bad as the Cubs were I thought these 3 did a pretty good job coming off the bench and they will not cost the Cubs a fortune to bring back.

16. Resign Kerry Wood.

This is a no brainor and is a very inexpensive FA resign. Wood has already said he will retire if the Cubs do not resign him.

17. Angel Guzman named as closer next season.

This would be a horrible move. Guzman is coming off shoulder surgery and he might not ever make it back to the big leagues. An often injured player with screws in his shoulder is not someone I would just give the closer role to. If the Cubs do trade Marmol then there are plenty of closers available in the FA market to go out and get. If not then Sean Marshall is the new Cubs closer.