Cubs moves

[hawkfarmer]

It's that time of year:

What moves should the cubs make this offseason (logically and economically sound)

1. GM: Wishlist is Tampa's GM, Beane, or the Royals GM (yes the royals-they develop a great farm system but have to trade away before they get good)

2. Trade Marmol- He's soon to get expensive and he's good, not great. He would likely bring in a top notch prospect to help with the future

3. Get rid of Z, by any means necessary

4. Don't bring Ramirez back-- 3 years is too long of a deal at 15 mil/year

5. Don't bring Dempster back

6. Don't get Fielder or Pujols- too expensive

7. do anything you can to build farm system

 

[goiahawks]

So we know who you don't want. Who do you think they should go after? That's where it gets tricky

 

[tm3308]

So we know who you don't want. Who do you think they should go after? That's where it gets tricky

We need a #1 starter. I'd rather keep Dempster unless we get something for him, but he's not an ace. Pitching market gets pretty thin this year after Wilson, though. Personally, I'd like to wait it out and make a run at Kershaw when he hits the market. Not sure the Dodgers are going to be able to keep him.

Truth is, this year's market is not strong outside of the guys like Pujols (who isn't going anywhere, IMO) and Fielder.

Odds are, things are going to have to get worse before they get better. Because our farm system sucks right now. We need to build from the ground up, and that takes time.

 

[SECisCRAP]

Dumpster needs to go. Marmol needs to go. Ramirez needs to go. The cubs need to jump on a solid ace and a couple dependable starters. Use the spring training to find a good enough closer, and I think they should look into Prince. Castro is up and coming, and Soriano is looking better towards then end. Adding Prince would give a solid 35+ hrs a year and could be the spark the offense needs to make the post season. No im not a die hard cubs fan or a cubs fan at all. This is just my thoughts on what the cubs should do to improve next year.

 

[hawkeyehat]

1. Friedman's probably not happening. I think it'll be Hahn, Beane or Epstein.
2. I'm cool with trading Marmol, but you'll need a closer to take over and that could be Cashner who I don't think can handle being a fulltime starter. Trade Marmol for some legit starting pitching prospects.
3. Getting rid of Z is a definite at this point. Send him and cash to the Marlins for whatever so he can hang out with Ozzie down there.
4. Pick up Ramirez's option, he'll decline and then offer him arb so you get the draft picks out of the deal. Then let him walk and sign a temporary fill in or let the farm system battle it out for the spot. Of you could think about moving Castro to third and bringing up Marwin Gonzalez to play solid D at SS and hit for average. But I'd rather leave Castro at SS.
5. Not bringing Dempster back is risky. He could bounce back, but moreso if you don't then you only have Garza back next year as a legit starter. Wells has shown he's not reliable and Coleman isn't the answer either. If you move Cashner to the closer position then you've got to bring in 3 new starters probably if you want to compete. I believe Dempster has a player option this year so it's really his choice anyway. I think he'll be back and would actually be fine as a number 4. They could get a cheaper option than him but it may not matter since I believe it's completely his choice. Cubs need to trade for a starter by using someone like Marmol and even Barney. Also, go after someone like CJ Wilson and bring in a reclamation project to battle with the farm system for the fifth spot. I wouldn't be surprised if Rhee is finally ready after recovering from TJ surgery a couple years ago. He had a nice finish to the year.
6. I disagree, I think the Cubs should go after Fielder. He'd be huge in Wrigley and bats like his don't hit the market often. We don't have any legit prospects close to be ready at 1B. Plus we'll have a decent amount of money coming off the books. Also, stealing him from Milwaukee would be a nice stab at one of our division rivals. If the new GM wants to make a splash, Fielder would be it.

Also, get rid of Soriano. They'll have to eat a bunch of money but it'll still be cheaper then paying him the whole contract. We've got enough OF prospects to fill in while playing better defense. If we want to compete we'd probably need to sign a legit OF offensive player, such as Cuddyer, but next year might just be about rebuilding for real finally. Also, what to do with Byrd? Brett Jackson is probably ready to be the CF so do you bump Byrd to LF? He'd play good defense but his offense needs to rebound greatly. If you can trade him then I think you do so. Otherwise he probably takes over one of the corner spots and then the farm system fills in the last spot. Is this the lineup?

CF - Jackson
3B - Lemahieu/Vitters/Flaherty
SS - Castro
1B - Fielder
LF - Byrd/Lehair/Colvin/other
C - Soto
RF - Byrd/Lehair/Colvin/other
2B - Barney

That's not very impressive.

 

[hawkfarmer]

So we know who you don't want. Who do you think they should go after? That's where it gets tricky

I don't think this is the year to go after any big names. Try to rebuild by losing some extra weight. Plus I don't see anyone taking Z, so that contract may have to be eaten, thus there isn't a lot of money flying around.

On dempster ( I thought his contract was up this year, my bad)

I really like the Kershaw deal that you mention tm, but I don't see him being let go by the dodgers anytime soon, and not sure he hits the marekt for a while with arbitration and everything there. Who knows.

I think the next off season will be the big one. Right now the cubs need to focus on building a system and not the big name splash free agent.

If the cubs are going to sign some one the focus needs to be on Starting pitching and the corner spots (which we know all three areas are slim on FAs)

 

[tm3308]

I don't think this is the year to go after any big names. Try to rebuild by losing some extra weight. Plus I don't see anyone taking Z, so that contract may have to be eaten, thus there isn't a lot of money flying around.

On dempster ( I thought his contract was up this year, my bad)

I really like the Kershaw deal that you mention tm, but I don't see him being let go by the dodgers anytime soon, and not sure he hits the marekt for a while with arbitration and everything there. Who knows.

I think the next off season will be the big one. Right now the cubs need to focus on building a system and not the big name splash free agent.

If the cubs are going to sign some one the focus needs to be on Starting pitching and the corner spots (which we know all three areas are slim on FAs)

IIRC, Kershaw is scheduled to hit the market in 2013 or 2014. I know that's not going to help us now, but with the Dodgers financial situation, I don't seem them being able to keep both Kershaw and Kemp. They're both going to get very expensive.

 

[SECisCRAP]

IIRC, Kershaw is scheduled to hit the market in 2013 or 2014. I know that's not going to help us now, but with the Dodgers financial situation, I don't seem them being able to keep both Kershaw and Kemp. They're both going to get very expensive.

Expecially if Kemp wins the triple crown.

 

[hawkfarmer]

1. Friedman's probably not happening. I think it'll be Hahn, Beane or Epstein.
2. I'm cool with trading Marmol, but you'll need a closer to take over and that could be Cashner who I don't think can handle being a fulltime starter. Trade Marmol for some legit starting pitching prospects.
3. Getting rid of Z is a definite at this point. Send him and cash to the Marlins for whatever so he can hang out with Ozzie down there.
4. Pick up Ramirez's option, he'll decline and then offer him arb so you get the draft picks out of the deal. Then let him walk and sign a temporary fill in or let the farm system battle it out for the spot. Of you could think about moving Castro to third and bringing up Marwin Gonzalez to play solid D at SS and hit for average. But I'd rather leave Castro at SS.
5. Not bringing Dempster back is risky. He could bounce back, but moreso if you don't then you only have Garza back next year as a legit starter. Wells has shown he's not reliable and Coleman isn't the answer either. If you move Cashner to the closer position then you've got to bring in 3 new starters probably if you want to compete. I believe Dempster has a player option this year so it's really his choice anyway. I think he'll be back and would actually be fine as a number 4. They could get a cheaper option than him but it may not matter since I believe it's completely his choice. Cubs need to trade for a starter by using someone like Marmol and even Barney. Also, go after someone like CJ Wilson and bring in a reclamation project to battle with the farm system for the fifth spot. I wouldn't be surprised if Rhee is finally ready after recovering from TJ surgery a couple years ago. He had a nice finish to the year.
6. I disagree, I think the Cubs should go after Fielder. He'd be huge in Wrigley and bats like his don't hit the market often. We don't have any legit prospects close to be ready at 1B. Plus we'll have a decent amount of money coming off the books. Also, stealing him from Milwaukee would be a nice stab at one of our division rivals. If the new GM wants to make a splash, Fielder would be it.

Also, get rid of Soriano. They'll have to eat a bunch of money but it'll still be cheaper then paying him the whole contract. We've got enough OF prospects to fill in while playing better defense. If we want to compete we'd probably need to sign a legit OF offensive player, such as Cuddyer, but next year might just be about rebuilding for real finally. Also, what to do with Byrd? Brett Jackson is probably ready to be the CF so do you bump Byrd to LF? He'd play good defense but his offense needs to rebound greatly. If you can trade him then I think you do so. Otherwise he probably takes over one of the corner spots and then the farm system fills in the last spot. Is this the lineup?

CF - Jackson
3B - Lemahieu/Vitters/Flaherty
SS - Castro
1B - Fielder
LF - Byrd/Lehair/Colvin/other
C - Soto
RF - Byrd/Lehair/Colvin/other
2B - Barney

That's not very impressive.

All great points. I honestly think that LaHair gets a chance either at one corner or 1B depending on who they sign. I get scared of the length of contract Prince will require, can that body hold up that long?

Also, Colvin is not the answer at a corner spot. I agree with you on starting pitching, but the big thing the cubs are doing right now is building the farm system. They don't have much to offer in trade, so how do they get a legit starter, unless it is CJ Wilson who will be expensive since he's just about it right now. Also, I see LeMehieu at 3B. I definitely see the scenario you spelled out for Rammy occurring.

1 thing is that Demp will be back if he wants to be, but it will be his last year. Also, you can't dump Soriano because of the contract, if it were only 1 or 2 more years, maybe, but 3 is a long time for anyone. Now, the Byrd idea, I say trade him if you get something back, if not play him for the year and let him go gracefully, but I think someone will want his produciton, and he's relatively cheap.

 

[Clark]

]All great points. I honestly think that LaHair gets a chance either at one corner or 1B depending on who they sign.[/B] I get scared of the length of contract Prince will require, can that body hold up that long?

Also, Colvin is not the answer at a corner spot. I agree with you on starting pitching, but the big thing the cubs are doing right now is building the farm system. They don't have much to offer in trade, so how do they get a legit starter, unless it is CJ Wilson who will be expensive since he's just about it right now. Also, I see LeMehieu at 3B. I definitely see the scenario you spelled out for Rammy occurring.

1 thing is that Demp will be back if he wants to be, but it will be his last year. Also, you can't dump Soriano because of the contract, if it were only 1 or 2 more years, maybe, but 3 is a long time for anyone. Now, the Byrd idea, I say trade him if you get something back, if not play him for the year and let him go gracefully, but I think someone will want his produciton, and he's relatively cheap.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31g0YE61PLQ"]The Office- Michael Scott No God No - YouTube[/ame]

 

[hawkeyehat]

I definitely agree that Colvin isn't the answer. He had is career year last year and I don't see him bouncing back. I'd rather give Campana at bats than Colvin. I only listed him because he's still around and will be in the mix in spring training if they don't sign a FA.

Fielder's contract will be key but he's going to get legit money. Perhaps you can get him on a 5 year deal but most likely it'll have to be at least 6 and around 20-25 each year on average. The nice thing is the Cubs won't have to fight off the Yankees and Red Sox money to get him since they're both locked in at 1st and I don't think they'll go after Fielder considering their current contract situations. The biggest competition will be the Brewers, White Sox and perhaps the Angels. The Cubs should be able to give him the money he needs without being in a bad position and like I mentioned earlier guy like him don't hit the market often and in two years when the Cubs feel they'll be ready to compete again they're going to want a bat exactly like his.

Soriano could be dealt but they'll have to eat tons of money. In the end you come out on top if you have a rookie playing in his position then you still save money and get better D and more consistent effort. Still wish they could just trade him to the Yankees for AJ Burnett but I realize that's not happening.

Lastly, it'll be interesting to see who the GM brings in as the new manager. If Francona gets the can in Boston, I wouldn't mind seeing him. However, I'd still like to give Sandburg a shot at it.

 

[9YRPLAN]

heres what will happen:

dempster is back for sure. at worst he eats 200 innings in semi-effective fashion and is a good clubhouse guy. not sure why you would want to dump him when there is no plan B.

offer Fielder 5 years/125-150 million

jackson will start in CF, with Byrd moving to RF. Soriano in LF, with campana and colvin as backups. johnson could possibly be back but he will likely get more money elsewhere.

try to sign CJ Wilson for a reasonable amount

Z is gone, doesnt matter how

Rotation next year is Garza, Wilson, Demp, Wells, and Cashner which is fine if not good.

some combination of baker, lemahieu, and flaherty play 3B. maybe even DeWitt but he is pretty bad defensively there.

if we dont get fielder, try to bring back pena but he will likely be too expensive. in that case some god awful combo of lahair, colvin, and baker will play 1B.

 

[Maddog81]

LaHair deserves a shot at 1b or an outfield corner. He hit 38 homers in AAA this season, and over .500 slugging pct with the big club in September. He's matured enough he can hit curves now, which was his rap as a young player. He was adequate defensively at Iowa.

 

[9YRPLAN]

lahair will likely suck as soon as there is a better scout on him. thats just the way it is. he destroyed AAA because he was there for 5 years.

id like to see him do well though, but id much rather give fielder 5/150

 

[ssckelley]

1. First and foremost get a GM.

With each game that Boston blows helps the Cubs chances with Epstein. If they were to miss the playoffs he might see the Cub position look attractive. He is at the top of my wish list of potential Cub GMs. It probably won't happen but a guy can dream.

2. Go after Pujols or Fielder.

It amazes me the amount of small market thinking Cub fans out there that think money is ever an issue with this team. Every team President/GM knows that all the Cubs have to do is land 1 big FA signing and Cub fans will fill Wrigley Field whether they win or not. I think the Cubs best chance is with Fielder as I think the Cardinals will figure out a way to keep Pujols. Honestly I think Fielder is the better choice between the 2 anyway as he is younger and has not shown any signs of wear and tear with his big frame. Pena is the consolation prize if the Cubs get outbid as it is no secret Pena wants back with the Cubs. Lance Berkman is another name out there I would like the Cubs to go after if they cannot get either Fielder or Pujols.

3. Activate the club option on Ramirez.

There is no way I throw more money & term at Ramirez's contract. Keep him 1 more year and make him prove on the field that he deserves a long term deal then let another team get suckered into giving it to him. The FA market for 3rd basemen is ugly this year and LaMahieu needs at least another 1/2 year in Des Moines. If the Cubs are not in contention at the All Star break then trade him for whatever you can get before the trade deadline.

4. Find a spot for LaHair

The career he has had in the minors along with how he finished this year with the Cubs proves he belongs. I doubt first base would be an option but he would make a perfect platoon partner with Soriano in leftfield. You are not going to find anyone to take Soriano off your hands so start him against Lefthanders and put LaHair in there against Righthanded pitchers. LaHair can also spell whoever they end up with at firstbase.

5. Figure out something for Zambrano

I do not have an answer for this one. He is extremely talented but no one will pick him up with his attitude and his expensive contract. Zambrano may end up spending the rest of his career getting paid to sit at home. If I was the Cubs GM I would send him to the first team that would pick up even a part of his contract and expect nothing in return.

6. Find a #1 pitcher.

They need to bring Dempster back but he is not a #1. He is a perfect 3rd or 4th starter that eats up a lot of innings and I think he opts for his 14 million dollar option anyway. But finding a #1 is easier said then done as this is a need for many major league clubs. Roy Oswalt would be a nice pickup, Edwin Jackson is available, but CJ Wilson is the prize of the FA market. I would also like to see the Cubs go out and get Scott Kazmir. I think he could be signed fairly cheap and I think he could resurrect his career pitching in the NL.

My ideal rotation is this:

CJ Wilson or Roy Oswalt
Matt Garza
Ryan Dempster
Randy Wells
Scott Kamir

7. Go out and get a Closer. There is a big FA market this year with closers and Marmol has proven that he is a better setup man. You go out and sign a closer and your bullpen becomes one of the best in baseball with Marmol, Marshall, Samardzija, and Wood/Russell as set up men.

8. Sign a Right Fielder

Tyler Colvin is not the answer in right field and Jackson may not be ready nor should he be rushed. This might sound crazy but going out and signing Bobby Abreu would be a short term answer. He is coming off a bad year but still runs the bases well, is solid defensively, and may rediscover his power stroke he had back in Philly.

 

[MikeDog70]

2. Go after Pujols or Fielder.

It amazes me the amount of small market thinking Cub fans out there that think money is ever an issue with this team. Every team President/GM knows that all the Cubs have to do is land 1 big FA signing and Cub fans will fill Wrigley Field whether they win or not. I think the Cubs best chance is with Fielder as I think the Cardinals will figure out a way to keep Pujols. Honestly I think Fielder is the better choice between the 2 anyway as he is younger and has not shown any signs of wear and tear with his big frame. Pena is the consolation prize if the Cubs get outbid as it is no secret Pena wants back with the Cubs. Lance Berkman is another name out there I would like the Cubs to go after if they cannot get either Fielder or Pujols.

I'm not sure it's small market thinking. I fairly sure it's that the Cubs, and most fans I talk to, don't want to pay Pujols $30m for 10 years as he is apparently asking for. Ten years for anyone is too long in MLB, and I'd be surprised if the Cubs did something for over 5-6 after the Soriano fiasco.

 

[JohnstonHawkeye]

Become a single A team...then maybe the scrubs will have a punchers chance at winning a championship

 

[tm3308]

1. First and foremost get a GM.

With each game that Boston blows helps the Cubs chances with Epstein. If they were to miss the playoffs he might see the Cub position look attractive. He is at the top of my wish list of potential Cub GMs. It probably won't happen but a guy can dream.

2. Go after Pujols or Fielder.

It amazes me the amount of small market thinking Cub fans out there that think money is ever an issue with this team. Every team President/GM knows that all the Cubs have to do is land 1 big FA signing and Cub fans will fill Wrigley Field whether they win or not. I think the Cubs best chance is with Fielder as I think the Cardinals will figure out a way to keep Pujols. Honestly I think Fielder is the better choice between the 2 anyway as he is younger and has not shown any signs of wear and tear with his big frame. Pena is the consolation prize if the Cubs get outbid as it is no secret Pena wants back with the Cubs. Lance Berkman is another name out there I would like the Cubs to go after if they cannot get either Fielder or Pujols.

3. Activate the club option on Ramirez.

There is no way I throw more money & term at Ramirez's contract. Keep him 1 more year and make him prove on the field that he deserves a long term deal then let another team get suckered into giving it to him. The FA market for 3rd basemen is ugly this year and LaMahieu needs at least another 1/2 year in Des Moines. If the Cubs are not in contention at the All Star break then trade him for whatever you can get before the trade deadline.

4. Find a spot for LaHair

The career he has had in the minors along with how he finished this year with the Cubs proves he belongs. I doubt first base would be an option but he would make a perfect platoon partner with Soriano in leftfield. You are not going to find anyone to take Soriano off your hands so start him against Lefthanders and put LaHair in there against Righthanded pitchers. LaHair can also spell whoever they end up with at firstbase.

5. Figure out something for Zambrano

I do not have an answer for this one. He is extremely talented but no one will pick him up with his attitude and his expensive contract. Zambrano may end up spending the rest of his career getting paid to sit at home. If I was the Cubs GM I would send him to the first team that would pick up even a part of his contract and expect nothing in return.

6. Find a #1 pitcher.

They need to bring Dempster back but he is not a #1. He is a perfect 3rd or 4th starter that eats up a lot of innings and I think he opts for his 14 million dollar option anyway. But finding a #1 is easier said then done as this is a need for many major league clubs. Roy Oswalt would be a nice pickup, Edwin Jackson is available, but CJ Wilson is the prize of the FA market. I would also like to see the Cubs go out and get Scott Kazmir. I think he could be signed fairly cheap and I think he could resurrect his career pitching in the NL.

My ideal rotation is this:

CJ Wilson or Roy Oswalt
Matt Garza
Ryan Dempster
David Wells
Scott Kamir

7. Go out and get a Closer. There is a big FA market this year with closers and Marmol has proven that he is a better setup man. You go out and sign a closer and your bullpen becomes one of the best in baseball with Marmol, Marshall, Samardzija, and Wood/Russell as set up men.

8. Sign a Right Fielder

Tyler Colvin is not the answer in right field and Jackson may not be ready nor should he be rushed. This might sound crazy but going out and signing Bobby Abreu would be a short term answer. He is coming off a bad year but still runs the bases well, is solid defensively, and may rediscover his power stroke he had back in Philly.

I can agree to much of this. I think the apprehension with Fielder/Pujols comes not from fans thinking we don't have the money. Obviously, we do. And we know this because we have had so much of it tied up in awful contracts with Zambrano, Soriano, and Fukudome. The apprehension comes from people who are unsure if Pujols/Fielder are wise long-term investments (the aforementioned were not). With Pujols it's his age, with Fielder it's his size and general lack of high-average hitting. Power is his lone hook. He's never hit .300 or better. When he starts to lose his power, he's going to fade VERY quickly. By comparison, Pujols is going to age much more gracefully, as he is more athletic, hits for a much higher average, and plays terrific defense.

I'm not entirely sold on Pujols either, simply due to his age (and uncertainty thereof). So it's not the money per se.

 

[nationalchamps]

I think Soriano needs to go too. If they are going to throw money around this off-season I'd like to see them throw it a top notch GM (Beane or Epstein).

 

[ssckelley]

I'm not sure it's small market thinking. I fairly sure it's that the Cubs, and most fans I talk to, don't want to pay Pujols $30m for 10 years as he is apparently asking for. Ten years for anyone is too long in MLB, and I'd be surprised if the Cubs did something for over 5-6 after the Soriano fiasco.

For the first 2 years that deal did not look bad at all as the Cubs were able to win the division in 2007 and in 2008 had the best record in the NL. They are stuck with him for another 3 years but I hope that does not keep them from going after one of these 2 prized firstbasemen.

I do not think any team would be willing to go 10 years on either of them. There is a chance with Fielder since he is younger but teams are going to want club options or to hit certain thresholds in order to guarantee the back end of that contract.