Could NIL actually foster more stability than what the NCAA ever provided?

[HawkGold]

???????

Boy, I have a hard time following you sometimes.

I finally quit giggling. What is funny, my wife says the same thing. She thinks very concretely. We've been married +30 years and raised a bunch of kids so it works.

Even maybe funnier is I am really a published author, a certified teacher in 2 states, been a community college department head, have articles in major ag publications, and teach at an enemy university. And now I am laughing again. I will try and do better.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

Not to put words in his mouth, but I don't think he has a problem with compensation, more a problem with athletes transferring like crazy in search of the buck.

If someone wants that restricted, they basically just want NCAA football to operate like almost every other professional sport, where the LEAGUE is the entity that matters, and hence they can get anti-trust exemptions that constrain the ways teams can compete against one another.

Does it limit an athlete's opportunities? Yes. Is it the way every other pro sport in USA operates? Yes. So not too crazy of an ask.

Fry has never understood my position. He attributes my position to his wonky understanding of what he believes every older white male wants on this planet. Regurgitating his assumptions is easier than actually reading what I write. And, the irony is that everything he says about me (not be affiliated with these kids, wanting to be entertained, etc.) is just as true of him. He just has a different take.

For the record, I am not against NIL, paying kids and kids making money. Hell, if NIL was what it was supposed to be (paying kids to do commercials and tv spots) I would be all for it. The most talented kids who are household names should be able to make money off of their talent.

What I am not in favor of is collectives and dark money boosters with no regulations. College football is already so top heavy, this is just going to trim the top so there are about 10 great schools and then the rest. Iowa will be the rest. And the rest will not be competitive with the top.

Again, I don't care if kids get paid. In fact, pay them more. I just want it regulated so that all schools are roughly in the same boat so it comes down to coaching, development, talent and who runs the best program. Not who can buy a trophy. This is precisely why the NFL took Sunday from the Church and now baseball is a regional sport watched by geriatrics. The NFL keeps growing its pie because every team, every team, can rebuild and win a title. New England was the joke of the league, then they got Brady and Belichek and built a dynasty. Dallas is the richest franchise in the world, but can't win a playoff game because they are run by an egotistical DB. But if you removed the salary cap, Jones would absolutely buy some rings. College football needs to move closer to the NFL model, not further away.

 

[HawkGold]

What I am not in favor of is collectives and dark money boosters with no regulations.

Isn't that what already exists? The NCAA went full vacuum pretty much after a WW2 Vet, former bb coach, Beilein uncle and mentor took down the Pony Express and Switzer while on the NCAA infractions committee.

And killed SMU and knee capped OU.

 

[CP87]

Fry has never understood my position. He attributes my position to his wonky understanding of what he believes every older white male wants on this planet. Regurgitating his assumptions is easier than actually reading what I write. And, the irony is that everything he says about me (not be affiliated with these kids, wanting to be entertained, etc.) is just as true of him. He just has a different take.

For the record, I am not against NIL, paying kids and kids making money. Hell, if NIL was what it was supposed to be (paying kids to do commercials and tv spots) I would be all for it. The most talented kids who are household names should be able to make money off of their talent.

What I am not in favor of is collectives and dark money boosters with no regulations. College football is already so top heavy, this is just going to trim the top so there are about 10 great schools and then the rest. Iowa will be the rest. And the rest will not be competitive with the top.

Again, I don't care if kids get paid. In fact, pay them more. I just want it regulated so that all schools are roughly in the same boat so it comes down to coaching, development, talent and who runs the best program. Not who can buy a trophy. This is precisely why the NFL took Sunday from the Church and now baseball is a regional sport watched by geriatrics. The NFL keeps growing its pie because every team, every team, can rebuild and win a title. New England was the joke of the league, then they got Brady and Belichek and built a dynasty. Dallas is the richest franchise in the world, but can't win a playoff game because they are run by an egotistical DB. But if you removed the salary cap, Jones would absolutely buy some rings. College football needs to move closer to the NFL model, not further away.

The irony is that schools can't regulate squat because they are supposed to be removed from these collectives. As people have said over and over again (including @Fryowa ), the NCAA screwed itself by fighting a losing battle for too long. Instead of being part of the discussion of how to create a good system, they fought until their hand was forced, and then said, "Do whatever you want, as long as it isn't done by the schools themselves." And now there is a mess.

But hopefully the mess is interesting, and hopefully Iowa doesn't get left in the trash heap. I think programs with stable, consistent NIL programs are going to get left behind initially, but some of the schools trying to go crazy with NIL-based recruiting are going to crash and burn. For now, Iowa needs to keep fund-raising, and keep smart people involved with their NIL collectives, and I think it will come out okay.

 

[Fryowa]

You and Barta...of one mind.

Nope. If you read my posts I said I wasn't in favor of limiting transfers. I said it would stop the multiple transfers and NIL shopping. Which it would.

 

[okeefe4prez]

This is precisely why the NFL took Sunday from the Church and now baseball is a regional sport watched by geriatrics. The NFL keeps growing its pie because every team, every team, can rebuild and win a title.

Competitive balance probably helps the NFL, but the biggest reason for their success is they have significantly pushed their product through OTA TV offerings that continue to command eye popping prices while most other sports have moved to cable or streaming as their content delivery methods. Getting 15 hours of content every Sunday on broadcast TV is a huge deal for the NFL.

 

[Fryowa]

Fry has never understood my position. He attributes my position to his wonky understanding of what he believes every older white male wants on this planet. Regurgitating his assumptions is easier than actually reading what I write. And, the irony is that everything he says about me (not be affiliated with these kids, wanting to be entertained, etc.) is just as true of him. He just has a different take.

For the record, I am not against NIL, paying kids and kids making money. Hell, if NIL was what it was supposed to be (paying kids to do commercials and tv spots) I would be all for it. The most talented kids who are household names should be able to make money off of their talent.

What I am not in favor of is collectives and dark money boosters with no regulations. College football is already so top heavy, this is just going to trim the top so there are about 10 great schools and then the rest. Iowa will be the rest. And the rest will not be competitive with the top.

Again, I don't care if kids get paid. In fact, pay them more. I just want it regulated so that all schools are roughly in the same boat so it comes down to coaching, development, talent and who runs the best program. Not who can buy a trophy. This is precisely why the NFL took Sunday from the Church and now baseball is a regional sport watched by geriatrics. The NFL keeps growing its pie because every team, every team, can rebuild and win a title. New England was the joke of the league, then they got Brady and Belichek and built a dynasty. Dallas is the richest franchise in the world, but can't win a playoff game because they are run by an egotistical DB. But if you removed the salary cap, Jones would absolutely buy some rings. College football needs to move closer to the NFL model, not further away.

I have no idea if you're a doctor or a janitor, but do you want your pay structure to be limited in scope like that? What would your reaction be if the government came and said to you, "You can make as much money as you want at your current job, but if better offers or a more desirable position comes along, you're not allowed to because a group of people you've never met and has nothing to do with you wants you to stay where you're at?" And be honest rather than doing the whatabout thing with the NFL. The NFL is what it is. It's a private business doing what it wants in a league it owns. Answer the question honestly without deflecting.

Again, it comes down to you thinking you should be able to control another person's money-making ability so that it doesn't screw up your fun. You can walk around it all you want, but that's what you're saying.

 

[CP87]

Nope. If you read my posts I said I wasn't in favor of limiting transfers. I said it would stop the multiple transfers and NIL shopping. Which it would.

You really expect me to read multiple posts prior to sharing my thoughts and opinions?

 

[Fryowa]

You really expect me to read multiple posts prior to sharing my thoughts and opinions?

I wouldn’t feel like I was at HN if you did.

 

[CP87]

I have no idea if you're a doctor or a janitor, but do you want your pay structure to be limited in scope like that? What would your reaction be if the government came and said to you, "You can make as much money as you want at your current job, but if better offers or a more desirable position comes along, you're not allowed to because a group of people you've never met and has nothing to do with you wants you to stay where you're at?" And be honest rather than doing the whatabout thing with the NFL. The NFL is what it is. It's a private business doing what it wants in a league it owns. Answer the question honestly without deflecting.

Again, it comes down to you thinking you should be able to control another person's money-making ability so that it doesn't screw up your fun. You can walk around it all you want, but that's what you're saying.

No one would want to be limited in that way, including professional athletes in our major sports leagues (MLB less so than the others, but they still have restrictions on competition). But pro leagues argue that their product would be irreparably harmed by out-of-control intraleague competition. And since the entity is the league, not the individual teams, they get away with it. It seems a bit sketchy, but I don't know anything about law. Players go along with it because being artificially limited to a multi-million dollar contract is way better than not having a league willing to pay you. And if the league is right, and unconstrained intraleague competition is harmful, now you are killing the golden goose and everyone loses.

Is it at least possible that the current lack of regulation kills (or at least maims) the goose that is NCAA football?

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Watch Taxi and learn the language. Football popularity is waning. Attendance...declining. HS particpation... declining. Middle aged men alive that grew up fans of college football....declining. CFP viewership...declining.

All before NIL was instituted.

I"m not this guy though...

View attachment 9504​

I don't think it is though. I actually think it is at an all time high. NFL and college. Attendance may be declining for various reasons, but popularity is not.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Watch Taxi and learn the language. Football popularity is waning. Attendance...declining. HS particpation... declining. Middle aged men alive that grew up fans of college football....declining. CFP viewership...declining.

All before NIL was instituted.

I"m not this guy though...

View attachment 9504​

Lol. This just supports my statement of not being able to follow you! Seriously, I have no problem with you, I just sometimes have a hard time tracking you. It may be me. Just saying.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Not to put words in his mouth, but I don't think he has a problem with compensation, more a problem with athletes transferring like crazy in search of the buck.

If someone wants that restricted, they basically just want NCAA football to operate like almost every other professional sport, where the LEAGUE is the entity that matters, and hence they can get anti-trust exemptions that constrain the ways teams can compete against one another.

Does it limit an athlete's opportunities? Yes. Is it the way every other pro sport in USA operates? Yes. So not too crazy of an ask.

Iowa should be the first to offer a graduated NIL system where a player gets more $$ increasing for the years in the program. Be a trendsetter once!

 

[MelroseHawkins]

I finally quit giggling. What is funny, my wife says the same thing. She thinks very concretely. We've been married +30 years and raised a bunch of kids so it works.

Even maybe funnier is I am really a published author, a certified teacher in 2 states, been a community college department head, have articles in major ag publications, and teach at an enemy university. And now I am laughing again. I will try and do better.

I'm serious. I think it's just the different way individuals think. I suspect you have more of an art sided brain and I don't much at all. I think you make statements that probably make sense to a subset or most people, but I just can't grasp it sometimes. No fault of anybody. It is funny because I will actually take time to try to figure out what I am missing, than sometimes give up! It's all good. I appreciate your comments and views.

Now the bold above makes me feel the pressure. I better get my thoughts and grammar correct! Ikes.

 

[HawkGold]

I'm serious. I think it's just the different way individuals think. I suspect you have more of an art sided brain and I don't much at all. I think you make statements that probably make sense to a subset or most people, but I just can't grasp it sometimes. No fault of anybody. It is funny because I will actually take time to try to figure out what I am missing, than sometimes give up! It's all good. I appreciate your comments and views.

Now the bold above makes me feel the pressure. I better get my thoughts and grammar correct! Ikes.

I'm kinda weird on things given I'm an ag guy/ coach who is also good with numbers and making sure properties are safe. But, I also play guitar and trumpet and love to write. My farm background kind of made me a jack of all trades and an expert at very little. I have a very dry sense of humor, but I like to have a lot of fun in class with it and with my kids. My classes tend to have a decent amount but few A's. A whole lot of B's, few if any C's or D's, and more than I would like F's. The work isn't hard, but you have to do it.

It's all good and I enjoy a lot of the conversations here..(not all). I am a writer, but I'm not an English major which drives my concrete thinking and lovely wife insane (she edits my work). My sense of humor is at times hard to detect.

 

[HawkGold]

Lol. This just supports my statement of not being able to follow you! Seriously, I have no problem with you, I just sometimes have a hard time tracking you. It may be me. Just saying.

Do you remember Latka? Danny Divito is also hysterical on this. Like Fry being polite.

Taxi - What's New In Your Life, Latka?

Latka heard a very good joke this morning...Season 1, Episode 14: Louie Sees The Light

www.youtube.com

 

[NorthKCHawk]

I have no idea if you're a doctor or a janitor, but do you want your pay structure to be limited in scope like that? What would your reaction be if the government came and said to you, "You can make as much money as you want at your current job, but if better offers or a more desirable position comes along, you're not allowed to because a group of people you've never met and has nothing to do with you wants you to stay where you're at?" And be honest rather than doing the whatabout thing with the NFL. The NFL is what it is. It's a private business doing what it wants in a league it owns. Answer the question honestly without deflecting.

Again, it comes down to you thinking you should be able to control another person's money-making ability so that it doesn't screw up your fun. You can walk around it all you want, but that's what you're saying.

This is a false dichotomy. The government is not the NCAA, and in fact, at least as collectives are concerned, the NCAA is really not even involved.

I agree that I do not want the government dictating how much I can make. That is not the issue. The NCAA and its member schools are not the government. No one is forcing these kids to participate in intercollegiate athletics. If they don't like the terms that are offered, go to fucking law school or go to the pros or do whatever you want.

I had to sign an agreement with my law firm to join it as a partner. Not all the terms were favorable to me. I was not given any discretion to negotiate the terms. But I signed it because I wanted to be a partner. These kids can make the same choice as to whether they want the good with the bad of such an NIL deal.

All I am advocating for is that the NCAA or conferences be able to have rules and limitations in place to keep some semblance of competitive balance. There are salary caps in the NFL for this very reason and it is only the most popular sport in the history of man. Absent Congressional intervention (which won't happen) I don't see a whole lot of easy fixes to this problem. But, if fan bases start to believe that the system is rigged and their team has no shots, interest in the sport and the team will wane. I used to be a huge Royals/Cubs fan. I did not watch a single baseball game last year. Why? The MBB system sucks.

 

[HawkGold]

This is a false dichotomy. The government is not the NCAA, and in fact, at least as collectives are concerned, the NCAA is really not even involved.

I agree that I do not want the government dictating how much I can make. That is not the issue. The NCAA and its member schools are not the government. No one is forcing these kids to participate in intercollegiate athletics. If they don't like the terms that are offered, go to fucking law school or go to the pros or do whatever you want.

I had to sign an agreement with my law firm to join it as a partner. Not all the terms were favorable to me. I was not given any discretion to negotiate the terms. But I signed it because I wanted to be a partner. These kids can make the same choice as to whether they want the good with the bad of such an NIL deal.

All I am advocating for is that the NCAA or conferences be able to have rules and limitations in place to keep some semblance of competitive balance. There are salary caps in the NFL for this very reason and it is only the most popular sport in the history of man. Absent Congressional intervention (which won't happen) I don't see a whole lot of easy fixes to this problem. But, if fan bases start to believe that the system is rigged and their team has no shots, interest in the sport and the team will wane. I used to be a huge Royals/Cubs fan. I did not watch a single baseball game last year. Why? The MBB system sucks.

Players aren't U of I partners. Big Dif.
A number of people are abandoning baseball. The games drag out forever.
You didn't like the Cubs winning the WS?

 

[Fryowa]

This is a false dichotomy. The government is not the NCAA, and in fact, at least as collectives are concerned, the NCAA is really not even involved.

Call it NCAA, call it whatever you want, you want to see a "governing" body dictating, i.e. limiting these players' compensation opportunities.

I agree that I do not want the government dictating how much I can make. That is not the issue. The NCAA and its member schools are not the government. No one is forcing these kids to participate in intercollegiate athletics. If they don't like the terms that are offered, go to fucking law school or go to the pros or do whatever you want.

Jesus H Mary, talk about a false dichotomy.

Last time I checked there wasn't another route to professional sports other than playing college football and at least one year of college basketball. How about if I told you, "If you don't like the terms that are offered, go apply at McDonalds or go do wills pro bono or do whatever you want?" Think it's possible to make partner doing that?

All I am advocating for is that the NCAA or conferences be able to have rules and limitations in place to keep some semblance of competitive balance

Competitive balance is a complete fantasy in college. There's never been anything resembling competitive balance before NIL, what makes you think it'd happen now?

And let's be honest, NIL hasn't exactly set the world on fire. What exactly did $2 million do for Spencer Rattler's teams? Quinn Ewers' $1.5 million? How 'bout Tyler Van Dyke's big price tag at Miami. Charlie Jones? People are eventually going to realize that NIL is on average a near-zero ROI and it will level out.

Newsflash, in basketball the same one and doners are going to go to the same blue bloods no matter what you pay them. The blue blood money will win out, just like it did back when it was illegal. After that tier of players, it isn't like there are 50 ridiculously good players that are all going to flock to the same 4 schools because of NIL. They're going to be distributed same as before. You think Bama and Texas are all going to get five 5-star tight end recruits in each class when only maybe 2 will play? There's no crystal ball telling donors which high schoolers are going to win them a championship.

Bottom line is you're advocating for regulation because NIL has the potential to change sports as you like to see them. I'll say it again, you have zero connection to sports whatsoever. It doesn't affect you materially in the least.

Maybe use your own retort on yourself and see if you think it still makes sense...If you don't like the NIL terms as players want them, "go take up fucking crocheting, or watch NBA, or do whatever you want..." It has nothing to do with you and everything to do with the actual players.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

It also has nothing to do with you. Why is your position and opinion any holier than fucking thou than mine, Fry? I have just as much right to have an opinion about college football as any other fan.

My opinions are clears. So are yours. Mine just make more sense. Move along.