HawkeyeMike23
Banned
Because Camby and Rose were found to be ineligible thus they had to vacate the games they won that those two participated in. Tough luck for a guy with a sparkling clean NCAA record like Cal's.
Could it be Fran???
- Thread starter khock
- Start date
Because Camby and Rose were found to be ineligible thus they had to vacate the games they won that those two participated in. Tough luck for a guy with a sparkling clean NCAA record like Cal's.
Knight78
Well-Known Member
If any player pans out in the NBA, there will be plenty of NBA merchandising options for that player. There may be hype for that player going from the NCAA to the NBA, but there are a dozen busts for every gem.
Knight78
Well-Known Member
I would agree with you if it happened only once. But there's an old proverb: Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
hawkjunkie
Well-Known Member
Fran would kick the living **** out of Calipari. Either with words, a stare, or physically dominating him. And it would not even be close. Cheater John wouldn't stand a chance...
I would pay to see the latter....and enjoy it with some popcorn, if only for the brief moment it would last.
I would pay to see the latter....and enjoy it with some popcorn, if only for the brief moment it would last.
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
Why wait to see if he pans out when you could get a marketable star that fans already know? That's just bad business sense. There's literally no arguement that makes sense from the NBA side to let high schoolers go straight to the pros. They get free marketing of the players through college basketball and especially the NCAA tournament, they save on scouting costs - not having to scout high school players, they get more developed players leading to a better product, less chance of guys like Korlene Young, Robert Swift, etc to get through, college proivdes another chance to weed those guys out.
Can you provide one argument that makes sense for why the NBA would go back to allowing high school kids into the draft?
Knight78
Well-Known Member
Who said I was arguing that point? I don't want the NBA drafting kids straight out of high school. Sure you have the LeBrons out there, but as was stated earlier, he is a once in a decade type of player.
I'm against the "one-and-done" college kids. They stay eligible for the first semester and then kiss off classes the second semester and enter the draft. (Ricky Davis anyone?) I'm all for the baseball type system. If a player goes to a college, they must stay there for three years or pay back their scholarship money for the remaining years they miss out.
And I see nothing wrong with the players going overseas if the teams there will have them; I know that teams in the European leagues limit the number of Americans on their teams.. I see nothing wrong with the NBA D-League route; heck, expand the D-League and make it similar to MLB's farm teams. The NCAA World Series gets a good crowd every year, and many places get good crowds for NCAA baseball.
Personally I'd like to go back to the "old days" where a player couldn't be drafted by the NBA until his college class was due to graduate, a la Wilt Chamberlain. (That is why he played for the Harlem Globetrotters for a year) So a player would be ineligible for the NBA draft until after what would be their senior year.
trj
Well-Known Member
Because the list of knuckleheads who spent a year or two in college, came into the league and then crashed and burned is just as long if not longer. It is Darwinism at it's best, you will figure it out or you won't, regardless of college. Did it really set the NBA back because Kwame Brown couldn't figure it out?
Still don't understand why people only care about this in basketball. Hockey, tennis, baseball, golf no one gives a ****, but one high schooler flames out and it is an indictment on every 18 year old who wants to test the water. Lebron, Kobe, KG, eff it you are not ready, you need coach K determining your shot selection.
Bottom line, the only reason why I care about an age limit is because it will improve the college product. The tournament is always better with dudes who know how to play.
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HawkeyeMike23
Banned
Yes, unknown high school kids turning into busts was not good for the league, they had a problem scouting high school big men who hadn't played against much competition. Teams were afraid of missing out on the next big thing, that's why they pushed to implement the one and done rule.
Pretty easy to figure out, those sports have established minor league systems. The NBA and NFL don't, and those are the ones that don't draft high school kids.
Terrible straw man argument. Robert Swift, Korlene Young, Lenny Cooke, you guys would not have been any better off going to college, see I can do it too?
Yes it already has, now we get to see guys like DeAngelo Russell, Jahlil Okafor, Justice Winslow play in college even if it's just for one year. A two and done rule, which the league would like to see, would be even better.
lightning1
Well-Known Member
Wasn't Fran.
trj
Well-Known Member
Even with the one and done rule, analytics/metrics and everything else it is still a crap shoot. Basically, the 76ers are playing a sophisticated game of roulette and the one and done rule isn't going to make a bit of difference.
The idea of telling Serena Williams, Mike Trout, Tiger Woods, Jordan Spieth, "no you have to wait to a certain age" would seem silly and there really is no difference here.
And your argument isn't a terrible straw man argument? You can cherry pick on both sides of this debate. Plenty of dudes who went to college 1+ years and couldn't figure it out.
As I stated before I am rooting for the 2 and done rule simply because it will make the college game better.
I understand the NBA angle and 5 or so years ago I was in total agreement, now that I am getting older I guess my worldview is changing. If an 18 year old wants to give it try, let them, if they crash and burn, they crash and burn. Everything evolves, scouting, player development, etc. you would get to a point where NBA teams would figure out how to scout an 18 year old. On the flip side, young people are getting more and more sophisticated you would eventually get to a point where they will be able to get a better gauge on when they are pro ready. During the process if there are a few cautionary tales, a few "causalities", so be it.
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HawkeyeMike23
Banned
Sure, but they don't want to and they have absolutely no incentive to have to do that. Might as well sit back, save money on scouting, let the players' get a year of free marketing at the NCAA and then draft them. There is litterally no reason for the NBA to go back to allowing high schoolers into the draft, they have a system that benefits them much more already established. It's not their job to worry about the quality of the college game, they are just protecting their own product.
And I forgot that Mike Trout played his very first professional game with the Angels, I was under the impression that he played 260 some minor league games first, but I guess that never happened.
trj
Well-Known Member
Protecting their product from what? Public perception? Are people really that uncomfortable with 18 year old black kids trying to become millionaires? What hurt the NBA in the late 90's, early 2000's was style of play. That had more to do with the influence of those Pistons, Heat and Knick teams of the early 90's than the influx of a bunch 18 years old.
I get Harper and Trout mixed up. One was up in the Major Leagues by 19 both were up at age 20. Number of minor league games played is irrelevant. There is no rule that says you have to be a certain age to be a major leaguer. There is no rule that says that you have to play Double A ball for 2 years.
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
From wasting money scouting high schoolers, from having to have 18 year olds who only hardcore basketball fans have heard of take up roster spots instead of slightly more developed, more well known 19 year olds who are more marketable from day one. If the league could get the NBAPA to agree to a two and done rule, they would do that in a second too.
Why doesn't the NFL let guys get drafted right from high school? Why do companies required engineers to have engineering degrees? They're are plenty of high schoolers who are smart enough to do those jobs with the right training.
You still haven't give one single reason why the NBA would benefit from taking high schoolers instead of the current set up.
trj
Well-Known Member
Congrats bruh, you win, I got nothing. The NBA caved into the public perception that the league was or would have been run amok with out-of-control 18 year old. I know, I know, HUGE benefit for the league. I get it man, I realize how expensive it is for a scout to talk to a AAU coach all the money coming in from television wouldn't begin to cover that. Embarrassed to scout a 9th grader, eff it, let college coaches do it.
The one and done rule is as superficial as having injured guys wearing sport coats on the bench during games. Strictly done to appease the masses.
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
Congrats bruh, you win, I got nothing. The NBA caved into the public perception that the league was or would have been run amok with out-of-control 18 year old. I know, I know, HUGE benefit for the league. I get it man, I realize how expensive it is for a scout to talk to a AAU coach all the money coming in from television wouldn't begin to cover that. Embarrassed to scout a 9th grader, eff it, let college coaches do it.
The one and done rule is as superficial as having injured guys wearing sport coats on the bench during games. Strictly done to appease the masses.
I could tell this about three posts ago. There's no benefit for the NBA allowing high school kids into the draft, not one, that's why they pushed to change it and now that they have it established, they aren't going back.
ChosenChildren
Well-Known Member
Everybody knows that Kentucky cheats and has done so for a long time. It is common knowledge. Just ask Bob Knight.
Calipari is another in a long line of cheating coaches at Kentucky. He fits in perfectly.
WindsorHawk
Well-Known Member
This...Fran would have owned it.
This article suggest it was Fran ....
http://www.nationofblue.com/was-gary-parrishs-story-about-fran-mccaffery/
http://www.nationofblue.com/was-gary-parrishs-story-about-fran-mccaffery/
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
It was Mick Cronin, the player was Marquis Teague.
lightning1
Well-Known Member
Yep.
