GhostofBTT
Banned
Who is the better freshman big man?
Cougill or Van Deest
- Thread starter GhostofBTT
- Start date
storminspank
Justin VanLaere
Cougs has the better overall game than VanDeest.
Although VD has the height, which isn't teachable.
Although VD has the height, which isn't teachable.
eyekwah
Well-Known Member
What is your evaluation criteria?
GhostofBTT
Banned
Who's better? That is the criteria.
I didn't add a rubric because I won't be grading this.
HeneryHawk
Well-Known Member
Given last night, where do you see a better overall game? A true center with a real nice upside versus a PF/C . Its too bad Iowa didnt corral both.
storminspank
Justin VanLaere
Cougill has much better hands, can bring the ball up the court, has better vision, is a better passer, is a much better shooter (esp from the outside).
Van Deest is a little better with his back to the basket and plays a little better D.
Overall, Cougs is the better player.
parquet
Well-Known Member
VD looks quicker, can jump higher, and has good moves around the basket. His play was probably a big reason Cougill sat out as much as he did. Lick even pointed out that VD was killing them in the first half by finding the open man for the three. Decent vision and passing in Lick's view, it seems.
GhostofBTT
Banned
I disagree. All of the things you mentioned would be valuable if Cougill could move. However, having a 6'9" 270lbs center who plays best away from the basket is a pretty bad disadvantage.
I mean really, Cougill bringing the ball up the court? Who's defending him, a glacier?
HeneryHawk
Well-Known Member
Bringing the ball up the court is necessary in your center? Seems like some very misplaced priorities there. The only 6'9" guy I would like to bring up the ball would be Earvin Johnson, but he was a PG, not a center, nor was confused as a center.
As for outside shooting, why is that a priority in a center, its a nice additional skill, but not the top skill needed for a center. I prefer a solid inside game, knows how to post up, make his moves and finish, to hand good to great hands, to have excellent vision and be a good to better passer, and solid, to very solid on D. Having a mid range as a shooter is a big plus, and to be able to shoot threes is a plus, but not as good as a back to basket game.
In the head to head, I didnt see Cougill and the better player that evening. As for upside, I think Van Deest may have the greater upside with the size, the big wingspan, the ability to gain weight and add quickness with strength, get better conditioned as he matures and the ability to hold position as he matures will be big too, and add it in with the good footwork he has, it looks good ( plus he extended coverage to the perimiter nicely last night ). The upside for Cougill is to be better conditioned, to improve his footwork(which seem nice ), he needs to improve lower strength to be better able to hold position and maintain balance, with the strength he will also do better with inside moves and hopefully be quicker ( though decisiveness makes one quicker )to the hole. He wont grow longer arms, so positioning and strength are key to improved rebounding, as it will also help in D.
Both players have nice upsides, but I think its a bit of a stretch to say that Cougill is the better at this point.
As for outside shooting, why is that a priority in a center, its a nice additional skill, but not the top skill needed for a center. I prefer a solid inside game, knows how to post up, make his moves and finish, to hand good to great hands, to have excellent vision and be a good to better passer, and solid, to very solid on D. Having a mid range as a shooter is a big plus, and to be able to shoot threes is a plus, but not as good as a back to basket game.
In the head to head, I didnt see Cougill and the better player that evening. As for upside, I think Van Deest may have the greater upside with the size, the big wingspan, the ability to gain weight and add quickness with strength, get better conditioned as he matures and the ability to hold position as he matures will be big too, and add it in with the good footwork he has, it looks good ( plus he extended coverage to the perimiter nicely last night ). The upside for Cougill is to be better conditioned, to improve his footwork(which seem nice ), he needs to improve lower strength to be better able to hold position and maintain balance, with the strength he will also do better with inside moves and hopefully be quicker ( though decisiveness makes one quicker )to the hole. He wont grow longer arms, so positioning and strength are key to improved rebounding, as it will also help in D.
Both players have nice upsides, but I think its a bit of a stretch to say that Cougill is the better at this point.
HawkeyeDug
Well-Known Member
I hope to never see Coug's bring the ball up the court. That is a recipe for disaster. His handles are on par with mine.
clicheusername3
Banned
both will be solid 10 and 7 guys throughout their careers...outstanding
storminspank
Justin VanLaere
He's already done it in an Iowa uniform a few times, it's his man defending him... normally a 4 or 5.
My question for you is why do you have to rip on all of Iowa's players? I understand some people cope differently, but I don't understand your approach.
How did wearing Drake gear last night work out for you?
storminspank
Justin VanLaere
If you've watched this year, he already has. There has been a couple times were he has had to break the press. He's done well with it.
GhostofBTT
Banned
I agree, some people do handle it different ways. For instance, I am unrealistically pessimistic, while you are unrealistically optimistic. I think we kind of balance things out. We are the yin and the yang.
BTW, I didn't attend the game. I somehow came down with a case of strep, and was confined to quietly cheering for both teams in my living room.
storminspank
Justin VanLaere
Please make a flow chart of our yin and yang, I won't be able to understand without it.
parquet
Well-Known Member
Do you ever watch a game? Hope that's not too harsh. While he was "sick" he played 24 minutes against Iowa State and played very well. Also, the sickness has lasted over two weeks now if that's what it is. I think the kid is going to be a fine player here over his career but it won't be because of his quickness.
SpecialKHawk
Well-Known Member
Like others who posted this earlier...... I also cannot believe that this coaching staff did not offer Van Deest a scholly? How nice would our future look with both Cougill and Van Deest on the front line being joined by Larson next year.
This year we could have gone big at times with both on the floor or moving Cole back to power forward since he is way undersized for the post.
Yes May is a nice player but we have all kinds of players at his height and his position.
That's my beef with this staff..... unwillingness to value big men.
Van Deest grew up in Iowa City's backyard and a Hawk fan from what I thought I read and Lick does not recruit him ? If Lick does not make it he can only blame himself after his numerous blunders.
This year we could have gone big at times with both on the floor or moving Cole back to power forward since he is way undersized for the post.
Yes May is a nice player but we have all kinds of players at his height and his position.
That's my beef with this staff..... unwillingness to value big men.
Van Deest grew up in Iowa City's backyard and a Hawk fan from what I thought I read and Lick does not recruit him ? If Lick does not make it he can only blame himself after his numerous blunders.
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