wundergrape
Well-Known Member
No, my friend. Thank you.
Comparison: Anthony Clemens Vs. Bryce Cartwright
- Thread starter smhawk
- Start date
Its kind of silly comparing the two. Anthony clemens hasn't even played yet, and Bryce Cartwright was injured most of his senior year. If he hadn't been injured I'm sure his shot would have been much improved. The important thing is that Fran doesn't recruit guys unless they are pretty good, and physically have tons of potential. I doubt that anyone would argue that Clemens and Cartwright are both physically gifted to excel at basketball.
Yea that comeback wins every debate everytime. So does I know you are what am I.
smhawk
Well-Known Member
haha sad? Cause Payne was a 5 star recruit. And who was Lick expecting to have behind Payne as PG. The guy crushed our program, nothing sad about placing blame on him. From a game to game coaching he might have had some strengths, but the guy could not gain players trust. He had nearly double figures for players that transferred on him. AC as a freshmen vs. Bryce as a freshmen I would believe could be a close call. Leading in assist is great but you gotta bring in defense, turnovers, shooting percentage as well.
I loved Bryce as he was crucial in helping Iowa bring back some momentum. You could almost thank him as much as Fran for the turnaround. He came in as a recruit option late in the game, for what was available to recruiting at that time he was indeed a gem. Especially for a school that was struggling to keep players from transferring.
if you want to blame anyone for bc not having a backup last yr it actually falls on fran. he didnt bring one in. he tried to get hubbard but he wouldnt have been a pg...fran put his eggs all in the gesell/clemmons basket as if those 2 dont pan out it will probably cost him his job. i believe they will but ac isnt at the ability of bc.
people didnt like lick as a coach...fine i didnt think he was the right guy but he is a good coach just not the right fit. payne left under fran and fran didnt fill his spot...sounds to me that it is a reach to blame lick. get over it. payne saw a guy completely take over the pg spot and didnt think he could compete with him that is not on lick that is on payne.
then fran didnt or couldnt fill the back up pg spot that is on him not lick...he lucked out that marble was able to be serviceable (and that is it) at the pg. bc when healthy was a 10 ppg guy and 5 assist guy...by my math if all those assists are for 2 pts that is accounting for 20 pts in a game. not to mention his ability to push tempo.
let ac actually play before we say he is better than bc...in fact they are different types of pgs as one is a defensive guy and the other is an offensive guy making them hard to compare. to say he wasnt good enough to start is asinine as he had very good numbers as a starter and the offense and team was clearly better when he started both his jr and sr yr. turnovers is a tough thing to compare considering the speed he played at...the faster the tempo the higher the turnover rate tends to be...i get why people use it but i expect our guards to turn it over a little while a uni guard wont...different tempo.
people didnt like lick as a coach...fine i didnt think he was the right guy but he is a good coach just not the right fit. payne left under fran and fran didnt fill his spot...sounds to me that it is a reach to blame lick. get over it. payne saw a guy completely take over the pg spot and didnt think he could compete with him that is not on lick that is on payne.
then fran didnt or couldnt fill the back up pg spot that is on him not lick...he lucked out that marble was able to be serviceable (and that is it) at the pg. bc when healthy was a 10 ppg guy and 5 assist guy...by my math if all those assists are for 2 pts that is accounting for 20 pts in a game. not to mention his ability to push tempo.
let ac actually play before we say he is better than bc...in fact they are different types of pgs as one is a defensive guy and the other is an offensive guy making them hard to compare. to say he wasnt good enough to start is asinine as he had very good numbers as a starter and the offense and team was clearly better when he started both his jr and sr yr. turnovers is a tough thing to compare considering the speed he played at...the faster the tempo the higher the turnover rate tends to be...i get why people use it but i expect our guards to turn it over a little while a uni guard wont...different tempo.
Just judging from his highlight tape I think Anthony Clemens could be more of a Mike Henderson type guard than a Bryce Cartwright. Clemmons may not put up huge stats but if he, like Henderson, can bring athleticism and defense to the team at the guard spot it will only help.
hawkdoctor
Well-Known Member
If Clemens even come close to BC by the time he is done playing I'll be amazed. He has a long way to go but does have some skills.
RocknRollface
Well-Known Member
Its also says that Licklieter recruited guys who should have never sniffed the bigten.
RocknRollface
Well-Known Member
He is already a significantly better defender and thats the most important thing he brings to the table IMO.
Iowa couldn't stop anyone on the perimeter last year.
Its going to be interesting to see how they mix and match defensive oriented players like Clemmons, Ingram and to a degree May, with the offensive oriented players in Marlble, Gesell, Ogelsby and White.
wundergrape
Well-Known Member
Anthony Clemmons will be asked to do very different things than Bryce. Even as a senior, Anthony's role will be far different from what we asked Bryce to do. Anthony will be relied on to distribute and play defense. Bryce was relied upon as a creator and floor general.
When it's all said and done, AC will almost certainly not have a season as statistically significant as Bryce's Junior year. However, I think that we will look back at Anthony as the superior player.
I liken them to James Moses and Kenyon Murray. Now, James Moses was better than Kenyon Murray in almost every statistical category; but a strong argument can be made that Kenyon Murray was the better player.
The makeup of those Murray teams was vastly different: you had Settles, Kingsbury, Woolridge, Millard, Street/Bowen on those teams. Moses was asked to do a lot more with the ball in his hands, as the other scoring threats during his tenure were only Earl, Barnes and Street (Ray Thompson and Jepson were there for his FR year, though).
We'll see a similar dynamic with Cartwright and Clemmons. Cartwright will have bigger numbers, Clemmons will be a better player.
When it's all said and done, AC will almost certainly not have a season as statistically significant as Bryce's Junior year. However, I think that we will look back at Anthony as the superior player.
I liken them to James Moses and Kenyon Murray. Now, James Moses was better than Kenyon Murray in almost every statistical category; but a strong argument can be made that Kenyon Murray was the better player.
The makeup of those Murray teams was vastly different: you had Settles, Kingsbury, Woolridge, Millard, Street/Bowen on those teams. Moses was asked to do a lot more with the ball in his hands, as the other scoring threats during his tenure were only Earl, Barnes and Street (Ray Thompson and Jepson were there for his FR year, though).
We'll see a similar dynamic with Cartwright and Clemmons. Cartwright will have bigger numbers, Clemmons will be a better player.
jacknicholson
Well-Known Member
Clemmons D will probably be the main difference. Kenyon was one of those players whose contributions were not noticeable in the stats.....
Good posts, Wunder.....
hawkjunkie
Well-Known Member
What stats are you using, other than assists?? Doesn't matter, with the record his team had, the stats mean nothing. Look at Rick Davis' scoring stats. They did not mean much when you do not get your team to win... IMO they don't mean jack.
I am betting AC's production will be good. His minutes we know will not be cloes to BC's minutes. As we have multiple players that can play point. With Fran at the helm, nobody will have to worry about getting that many minutes. It just will not happen.
SheagleHawk
Well-Known Member
B/c Cartwright was an all american
. Seriously people, BC was avg at best. At best. I can't believe how distorted some people's view is of him. He was poor defender, poor shooter, could only occasionally create his own shot, was turnover prone, and carried the ball everytime down the floor (though he was rarely called for it). I would be absolutely shocked if Clemmons wasn't much better than Cartwright by the time he leaves Iowa.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Wundergrape is on Fire in this thread!!! Great posts all around, I can't wait for some Iowa BB!
