CJ Fredrick

Seth53

Well-Known Member
The bottom 4/5ths of every conference are going to be the minor leagues for the other 1/5th.

I'll watch until the poaching happens a few times and then I'm out. Better shit to do. Not mad; just indifferent. I'll fill that void with high school basketball and start following our two local conferences. Hell, every HS game is livestreamed in my area anyway for free.

Part of the fun of being a college sports fan is arguing with your buddies and people on message boards about coaches, recruits, players, etc.

But now, it's not even remotely interesting to discuss a kid like Mulvey coming in, or whether an existing player will pan out, etc., because if they do have success there's a greater chance than not that they'll be splitsville anyway.

You can't even say like, "I'm intrigued by this team 'cause in a few years I think they'll [fill in the blanks]..." because every year the guys who don't feel like they're getting enough PT are gonna jump, good players are going to get poached, and we won't know who the transfer kids are until the last minute and likely won't be long term anyway.

A poster above said things weren't gonna change for the worse because look at the 3 point rule, dunk rule, freshman rule, blah blah blah. Welp, that's complete horseshit. This transfer rule is gonna kill 80% of the basketball programs out there from the fans' perspectives (football will be somewhat different because adapting to a new system in FB isn't as easy). Every year it's a brand new team and you can't even hope for breakout players with a lot of success.

I mean, how fucked up is it that we can't even root for a guy to come out of his shell and become a 20 PPG scorer for the Hawkeyes? That's just fuckin bonkers as a fan. There's a reason they put the transfer rule in place the way it was, and we are about to get a crash course in it. I'm 100% onboard with NIL and allowing athletes to make money and be paid. But this rule has nothing to do with that and it's gonna crush college sports unless you already root for Duke, Bayler, Gonzaga, Kansas, etc.
Well, I'm the "poster" who made the points about the plethora of changes in college BB. And I stand by the comments. The Portal is new. Untested and everybody's favorite thing to do now. It'll calm down after a couple of years when people figure out it's not the panacea they think it is. Agree to disagree with you Mr. Moderator.

I'll add...the "one and done" rule was lamented by a majority for the same reasons you're against the portal (new team every year, can't see a team season, etc). And again, the chicken-little's were incorrect. College BB in KY is as popular as ever.

Philosophically speaking, it's entirely out of balance to lock in a player for 4 years while the coach can leave whenever. Or make the player jump through stupid hoops with "lists" of who he can and can't transfer too. The Portal is an outcropping of those dumb previous practices. Just sayn.
 
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WindsorHawk

Well-Known Member
I’m not saying Patrick never sub’d in for CJ, but Patrick wasn’t taking minutes away from CJ. They didn’t even play the same position. Connor played because he was our best post entry passer and it wasn’t even close. It’s probably a great idea to effectively feed the NPOY the basketball in the post with somebody who can actually do it. I get it, some people are butt hurt by Fran and his kids, not saying you in particular, but it shouldn’t have anything to do with playing time. Patrick will be a bigger star for this team than CJ could have been. Just my opinion on that last point.
Agree with 1 minor addition...Connor wasn’t taking minutes from CJ either IMO. The closest thing to a negative comment Fran ever made about CJ was that he needed to shoot more. I guess he wants to go where he’s not asked to shoot.
 

Fryowa

Administrator
Well, I'm the "poster" who made the points about the plethora of changes in college BB. And I stand by the comments. The Portal is new. Untested and everybody's favorite thing to do now. It'll calm down after a couple of years when people figure out it's not the panacea they think it is. Agree to disagree with you Mr. Moderator.
The examples you gave had literally zero similarity or relation to the transfer rule. None of those had any effect to the makeup or stability of rosters. At all.

This new rule means there will be a complete reshuffle of rosters every season. You honestly believe top tier programs are going top get "bored" with poaching teams best players and stop doing it? Calipari is even quoted yesterday saying he fully intends to go out and get the best available players each year from the portal because he's "[there] to win and not make decisions based on emotion." That means poaching developmental kids and late bloomers from teams like Iowa.

Chris Klieman said he intends to hold 40 fucking percent of his scholarships every year to give to potential incoming transfers. That's 10 guys who aren't going to get recruited coming out of high school, because every team is going to do that. Not just K-State...

If you can't see that this is going to be a permanent and total disruptor of college sports than I don't know what on earth to tell you.
 

Hawkfnntn

Well-Known Member
The bottom 4/5ths of every conference are going to be the minor leagues for the other 1/5th.

I'll watch until the poaching happens a few times and then I'm out. Better shit to do. Not mad; just indifferent. I'll fill that void with high school basketball and start following our two local conferences. Hell, every HS game is livestreamed in my area anyway for free.

Part of the fun of being a college sports fan is arguing with your buddies and people on message boards about coaches, recruits, players, etc.

But now, it's not even remotely interesting to discuss a kid like Mulvey coming in, or whether an existing player will pan out, etc., because if they do have success there's a greater chance than not that they'll be splitsville anyway.

You can't even say like, "I'm intrigued by this team 'cause in a few years I think they'll [fill in the blanks]..." because every year the guys who don't feel like they're getting enough PT are gonna jump, good players are going to get poached, and we won't know who the transfer kids are until the last minute and likely won't be long term anyway.

A poster above said things weren't gonna change for the worse because look at the 3 point rule, dunk rule, freshman rule, blah blah blah. Welp, that's complete horseshit. This transfer rule is gonna kill 80% of the basketball programs out there from the fans' perspectives (football will be somewhat different because adapting to a new system in FB isn't as easy). Every year it's a brand new team and you can't even hope for breakout players with a lot of success.

I mean, how fucked up is it that we can't even root for a guy to come out of his shell and become a 20 PPG scorer for the Hawkeyes? That's just fuckin bonkers as a fan. There's a reason they put the transfer rule in place the way it was, and we are about to get a crash course in it. I'm 100% onboard with NIL and allowing athletes to make money and be paid. But this rule has nothing to do with that and it's gonna crush college sports unless you already root for Duke, Bayler, Gonzaga, Kansas, etc.
Yup... if Keagan Murray blows up next yr he's probably gone. If that Mulvey kid comes in and (I'm not saying he will be just what ifing) has a monster first yr there's better odds he'll bail then play at Iowa 2 more yrs let alone graduate from Iowa. When people were saying Garza is a unicorn and will be the last of his kind that couldn't be more true in multiple ways. You won't see guys like that half that good stay 4 yrs at 1 school anymore you just won't...
 

HawkGold

Well-Known Member
The examples you gave had literally zero similarity or relation to the transfer rule. None of those had any effect to the makeup or stability of rosters. At all.

This new rule means there will be a complete reshuffle of rosters every season. You honestly believe top tier programs are going top get "bored" with poaching teams best players and stop doing it? Calipari is even quoted yesterday saying he fully intends to go out and get the best available players each year from the portal because he's "[there] to win and not make decisions based on emotion." That means poaching developmental kids and late bloomers from teams like Iowa.

Chris Klieman said he intends to hold 40 fucking percent of his scholarships every year to give to potential incoming transfers. That's 10 guys who aren't going to get recruited coming out of high school, because every team is going to do that. Not just K-State...

If you can't see that this is going to be a permanent and total disruptor of college sports than I don't know what on earth to tell you.

Disruptive? NCAA BB will go on and not be disrupted because of this. Different? Yes. If any of us work for a bad boss, we are free to leave. There are just now getting to be ways to address grievances with employers. This will change.

How many of us would leave a job for a better gig? Can you imagine being stuck with a coach you don't like, or one that doesn't like you? Put the word boss instead of coach.

Athletic Departments brought this on in large degree by not changing with the times.

Could you imagine a player such as CJ being where he was from not having a dream of playing at KU if given a good chance?

Will be interesting about what if anything comes out in the future about this (CJ specifically) and why.

I wouldn'td count Fran out on contending again next year or a couple of years. As much as he doesn't seem to get over the top, he doesn't get to the bottom either.
 

Fryowa

Administrator
Disruptive? NCAA BB will go on and not be disrupted because of this. Different? Yes. If any of us work for a bad boss, we are free to leave.
You can play semantics and call it whatever you want.

The simple fact is that this will change the team/player/coach dynamic permanently. There won’t be anymore following classes of players (and hence teams) as a cohesive unit anymore because the NCAA has removed any external incentive to stay and given enormous incentive for both disgruntled and high-talent players to leave. In other words, they’ve turned college sports from team sports to an individual free for all. The side affect of this is already being seen and the rule hasent even been signed into the book yet. If anyone out there doesn’t think Calipari didn’t have someone putting a bug in Fredrick’s ear covertly weeks ago, you’re either ignorant or just plain dumb. That was no coincidence.

But back to the original point, you can call it what you want but the fact remains that the majority of people follow college sports to see stable teams and player classes play and develop over a period of time, as a unit. Fans thrive off of the speculation and armchair analysis about whether a certain recruit will sign out of high school, or what player ABC will be like in 3 years, and so on. That is completely gone now, so yes—it is a disruptive of the game as most people like to watch it.

Myself, I guess I don’t care much. I’d like it to be different but I have precisely zero control over it. I can find other shut to do if (when) it gets bad.
 

Ian Pike Hammer

Well-Known Member
Welp, the Kentucky's, Duke's, UCLA's, and Gonzaga's of the world can't get all the top talent in college basketball. OK, let me restate that. They can't KEEP all the top talent.
After they pilfer from the Iowa's and Northwestern's of the world there are only so many scholarships and roster spots for each team [like I posted previously].
After the blue-bloods load their rosters with all 4 and 5 ***** kids, are they gonna play them all? Do you think Coach K and Coach Calipari are going to go with a 15 man rotations every game, every year? Of course not! So what happens to those players who THINK they are good but are getting 1 and 2 mins a game mop-up duty? THeir gonna enter the portal, where the Iowa's and NW's have open spots and minutes to give.
With rosters full of 4 and 5***** players, the blue-blood will dominate the college scene.
ISN'T THAT WHAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW? There's no difference between now and tomorrow.
THeir gonna enter the portal, where the Iowa's and NW's have open spots and minutes to give.
 

Seth53

Well-Known Member
Welp, the Kentucky's, Duke's, UCLA's, and Gonzaga's of the world can't get all the top talent in college basketball. OK, let me restate that. They can't KEEP all the top talent.
After they pilfer from the Iowa's and Northwestern's of the world there are only so many scholarships and roster spots for each team [like I posted previously].
After the blue-bloods load their rosters with all 4 and 5 ***** kids, are they gonna play them all? Do you think Coach K and Coach Calipari are going to go with a 15 man rotations every game, every year? Of course not! So what happens to those players who THINK they are good but are getting 1 and 2 mins a game mop-up duty? THeir gonna enter the portal, where the Iowa's and NW's have open spots and minutes to give.
With rosters full of 4 and 5***** players, the blue-blood will dominate the college scene.
ISN'T THAT WHAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW? There's no difference between now and tomorrow.
THeir gonna enter the portal, where the Iowa's and NW's have open spots and minutes to give.
Agree.

Like I stated earlier, this Portal is a brand new concept.
Everybody is jumping into it.
The reality IS there are limited # of slots on each team.
People are going to re-jump (if they can, not sure of the rule).
The process is going to reach equilibrium soon enough.

So, *no* ,college BB is *not* on the verge of irreversible calamity. This was my initial premise. (not that the Portal won't be initially disruptive, it will).
College BB will be different for sure, but it'll survive.
 

MelroseHawkins

Well-Known Member
The examples you gave had literally zero similarity or relation to the transfer rule. None of those had any effect to the makeup or stability of rosters. At all.

This new rule means there will be a complete reshuffle of rosters every season. You honestly believe top tier programs are going top get "bored" with poaching teams best players and stop doing it? Calipari is even quoted yesterday saying he fully intends to go out and get the best available players each year from the portal because he's "[there] to win and not make decisions based on emotion." That means poaching developmental kids and late bloomers from teams like Iowa.

Chris Klieman said he intends to hold 40 fucking percent of his scholarships every year to give to potential incoming transfers. That's 10 guys who aren't going to get recruited coming out of high school, because every team is going to do that. Not just K-State...

If you can't see that this is going to be a permanent and total disruptor of college sports than I don't know what on earth to tell you.


Wow. Great points. To have a chance, a team like Iowa is going to have the perfect coach who knows how to work the portal and manage a transient roster on a year to year basis. Many teams will have to have some niche offense they run or something different and have success. Teams will have to be different.
 

WindsorHawk

Well-Known Member
2 Thoughts...

1 - Players aren’t given unlimited transfers.

2 - It’s the year of COVID with an extra year of eligibility on the table...impacts seniors in particular.

So there will always be a Portal of players. But this year is likely the worst it will ever be by far. And if coaches sit on scholarships for the Portal it means teams like Iowa have a better chance to get the guys they want. There are players that actually want to play for 1 coach, develop and even get a degree.
 

WindsorHawk

Well-Known Member
Wow. Great points. To have a chance, a team like Iowa is going to have the perfect coach who knows how to work the portal and manage a transient roster on a year to year basis. Many teams will have to have some niche offense they run or something different and have success. Teams will have to be different.
I totally disagree with those making this argument. Some players want loyal coaches and will be loyal in return. I think Fran already makes character a priority in his recruits. Some will become disgruntled and leave. Some won’t have the character he thought they had. But I don’t envision significant turnover at Iowa.
 

trj

Well-Known Member
I totally disagree with those making this argument. Some players want loyal coaches and will be loyal in return. I think Fran already makes character a priority in his recruits. Some will become disgruntled and leave. Some won’t have the character he thought they had. But I don’t envision significant turnover at Iowa.


I don't know the world you are describing will exist moving forward. Fran will have to adapt and/or adjust, otherwise he will end up being the "get off my lawn" guy.
 

WindsorHawk

Well-Known Member
I don't know the world you are describing will exist moving forward. Fran will have to adapt and/or adjust, otherwise he will end up being the "get off my lawn" guy.
Then why hasn’t the rest of our roster jumped in the Portal? They should all be looking to bounce if that’s the case. One third of the D1 is in the Portal. Iowa is under 20%.
 

okeefe4prez

Well-Known Member
So, *no* ,college BB is *not* on the verge of irreversible calamity. This was my initial premise. (not that the Portal won't be initially disruptive, it will).
College BB will be different for sure, but it'll survive.

Of course college basketball will survive, but my original premise was "t is going to be a terrible development for Iowa."

Iowa is going to get raided. Hard. This is going to be a reversion to the unlimited scholarship days (except Nebraska won't work its way into the national football conversation ever again).
 

SomersHawk

Well-Known Member
Just wondering what the players in the portal that don't find any teams interested in them plan to do? Only so many roster spots out there and new HS recruits are coming in. Some may very well be walking away from a scholarship. That would almost be a fitting ending to the circus.
 

Seth53

Well-Known Member
Of course college basketball will survive, but my original premise was "t is going to be a terrible development for Iowa."

Iowa is going to get raided. Hard. This is going to be a reversion to the unlimited scholarship days (except Nebraska won't work its way into the national football conversation ever again).
I haven't argued against your original premise.

My original retort was to a post which stated college BB is "fucked" with the new Portal issue.

I disagreed, stating multiple past issues of changes, which at the time were deemed "significant" which didn't diminish or ruin the game.

Yes, Iowa may get poached hard. But you think CJ is going to get the same minutes at KY if he had stayed at Iowa? I think not. The Portal will reach equilibrium soon enough.
 

trj

Well-Known Member
Then why hasn’t the rest of our roster jumped in the Portal? They should all be looking to bounce if that’s the case. One third of the D1 is in the Portal. Iowa is under 20%.

Perkins, Keegan and Kris Murray, Ulis, Ogundele, Sandfort, JoeT, Mulvey:

Of this group what are the odds of at least 2 of these guys transferring out? Granted this year was unique and you are not going to get this many guys in the portal on a regular basis, but the world you are yearning for is long gone.
 

Luftgekuehlt67

Well-Known Member
Perkins, Keegan and Kris Murray, Ulis, Ogundele, Sandfort, JoeT, Mulvey:

Of this group what are the odds of at least 2 of these guys transferring out? Granted this year was unique and you are not going to get this many guys in the portal on a regular basis, but the world you are yearning for is long gone.
I mean, at the rate things are trending, the chances of any given player finishing 4 years of eligibility at any one school are getting slim.

The Murray kids, being legacies, you would think would be more likely to stay...but if you don't think some blue bloods have Keegan on their short lists, you probably haven't been watching much college basketball lately!

CJ was also a legacy of sorts with the family connection to Fran...a lot of good that did us.
 

HawkGold

Well-Known Member
You can play semantics and call it whatever you want.

The simple fact is that this will change the team/player/coach dynamic permanently. There won’t be anymore following classes of players (and hence teams) as a cohesive unit anymore because the NCAA has removed any external incentive to stay and given enormous incentive for both disgruntled and high-talent players to leave. In other words, they’ve turned college sports from team sports to an individual free for all. The side affect of this is already being seen and the rule hasent even been signed into the book yet. If anyone out there doesn’t think Calipari didn’t have someone putting a bug in Fredrick’s ear covertly weeks ago, you’re either ignorant or just plain dumb. That was no coincidence.

But back to the original point, you can call it what you want but the fact remains that the majority of people follow college sports to see stable teams and player classes play and develop over a period of time, as a unit. Fans thrive off of the speculation and armchair analysis about whether a certain recruit will sign out of high school, or what player ABC will be like in 3 years, and so on. That is completely gone now, so yes—it is a disruptive of the game as most people like to watch it.

Myself, I guess I don’t care much. I’d like it to be different but I have precisely zero control over it. I can find other shut to do if (when) it gets bad.
You raise good points. But, like the NBA, I don't see this causing fans to go away. It's going to be different. I think society has created a situation where the next level is always pushed. There is so much corruption with it now. It's a big time business. It will be sort of like the Olympics going professional.
 
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