CJ Fredrick

BigD

Well-Known Member
I really think the transfer thing is going to make off-season speculation like we do here obsolete.

1) Speculation or discussion about guys playing at Iowa becomes almost meaningless because we have no idea who'll be with the team from year to year.

1) You can't root for guys to become really good anymore because you're going to lose those players. You have to root for guys to be sort of good, but not too good.
Lol,
So true and so ridiculous.

Your Garza comment about being a unicorn was great too. Where have I heard those sentiments before? Without Garza this team was just an average Fran team.

Could be worse though............... just think Lickliter ball. Some of our guards have been as tall under Fran as the tallest post player Lickliter brought in.
 

PCHawk

Well-Known Member
Iowa might have a bit of an advantage with keeping their guys because of the "family type atmosphere" we supposedly have. Really this is the first (second if you include Moss) wtf transfer we've had under Fran. Seeing CJ his first year kinda explained Moss. I'm really curious to know what happened here. Considering the McCaffery boys supposedly unfollowed CJ, it seems something must have happened.
 

spliff45

Well-Known Member
Apparently CJ met with Fran on Friday to tell him the rumors weren't true then met with him again yesterday to say he was leaving. Yikes...
 

PCHawk

Well-Known Member
He could actually point to Garza and say we can produce a Player of the Year here and this is what we can do for you (if you stay and commit of course). Bluder is working on the same thing with Clark.

We are in the Big Ten Conference. We got a lot of coverage.

We have a real active fan base that supports this program.

If you like scoring a lot of points, we have the program for you.

Historically, Iowa has been one the better programs in the country. Take away Hairgel and Lackluster and this program is very respectable.
Think about all of our first team players and ask yourself if they would have been good enough to be a first team player at any other team in the conference. The way Fran runs the offense, the fast pace they play, and the way he emphasizes getting the best player shots gets our best players at least a few more points per game than they would get anywhere else. Would Marble, White, or Jok be first team if they averaged 3 or 4 less points per game? Would Uthoff be a second team all American with a few less points? Would Luka be the player of the year with a few less points? Guys should be tripping over themselves to play for Fran. Maybe it's his hot head reputation that holds recruits back? I'm not sure, but you're right that he has some big selling points to recruits.
 

PCHawk

Well-Known Member
Here's what I think anyway. CJ is what I would describe as a 'dependent guard'. By that I mean he relies on others to get him open and his good looks. He isn't a ball handler or able to create for himself all that well. He can pass sure but he plays better off the ball cutting and coming off screens. If he was asked to handle the ball more and try and get more shots up on his own I think there'd have been a diminishing return of how effective he'd be.

I think we got the best of him because of Garza and the other 4 guys around him. They complimented his game perfectly. With that band getting broke up and him getting asked to handle the ball more and create shots for himself I think he's self aware of his game and knew that wasn't going to be a great thing. Combine that with going closer to home be it Louisville or most likely KY from all the rumors out there and it makes sense. I don't like it I'd much rather still have him but is what it is
I kinda disagree here. CJ has been really good at getting into the lane when he decides he wants to and has a really good short to mid range finishing ability. He was set to do that whenever he wanted last year and judging from his high school days, that's right up his alley. Weird situation going on here.
 

HaydenHawk56

Well-Known Member
Think about all of our first team players and ask yourself if they would have been good enough to be a first team player at any other team in the conference. The way Fran runs the offense, the fast pace they play, and the way he emphasizes getting the best player shots gets our best players at least a few more points per game than they would get anywhere else. Would Marble, White, or Jok be first team if they averaged 3 or 4 less points per game? Would Uthoff be a second team all American with a few less points? Would Luka be the player of the year with a few less points? Guys should be tripping over themselves to play for Fran. Maybe it's his hot head reputation that holds recruits back? I'm not sure, but you're right that he has some big selling points to recruits.
Exactly. I mean, I don't love Fran, but he does have things to sell. I should add he has kept Iowa in the NCAA Tournament picture. It is not like Iowa is nuclear wasteland as of now (although the developing current roster may be shaping up to be that way).

But, yes, if Fran is an asshole behind the scenes to his players then that word will get out. Hopefully that is not the case and why players like Moss or apparently CJ have left.
 
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MelroseHawkins

Well-Known Member
Yep, and it is going to be a terrible development for Iowa. Those kids we get out of Ohio who didn't quite make the cut at OSU but grew up with OSU football pictures on their walls, well, if they are good, we'll get them on the field for a year, maybe 2 if they start as freshmen. In hoops, we'll lose good players after 2 years when a program like UNC, Duke or Kansas realizes they can use them as role players off the bench to complement their young stars. We will keep some stars around because they are Hawk fans, but at the end of the day we are going to be scrambling to siphon players away from the likes of Ball State and Fresno State and living with a constant threat of recruitment of our solid players by the likes of Bama, Georgia, Michigan and OSU in football and the blue blood royalty of basketball when we have really good players. Iowa is really going to be in no man's land. Good enough to land occasional stars and give them opportunities against good competition to prove themselves, not good enough to ever tell them with a straight face "you can be on a title contending team if you stay."

I seriously think this development has the potential to trigger a reversion to pre-1980 when the scholarship limits were higher and teams like Bama and Georgia won the SEC every single year and OSU and scUM won the B1G every single year for over a decade.

Just think about it. The talking head bozos on sportstalk radio and TV have 24 hours per day to fill. The minute the college football season is over, they'll rotate into speculation on next season and then have all sorts of segments on "Georgia needs to buttress these 4 positions to be in the title hunt and here are 5 guys at each position that they should go after..." Spoiler alert, a bunch of guys from programs like Iowa, Northwestern, Michigan State and Purdue are gonna wind up on those lists. Guh.

Yep. The rich are going to get richer and the poor are going to get poorer. There is going to be a level of play in college sports similar to the minor league baseball system to develop players which will eventually go to the top teams. You think there are Blue Bloods now, just wait!

Iowa's going to be like a double AA or AAA team in the hierarchy. Develop talent that will eventually leave.

It was bad enough for the mid western cold climate teams to try to recruit players to be competitive in the national arena, now they have to still battle that and the portal with every player getting a "free get out of jail transfer card".

Now add into that the dark side of recruiting (paying players, boosters paying, stripper benefits) and this all goes to another level for colleges to stay competitive to recruit players, retain them and pull them from the portal.

It's going to be a ride guys!!

Say good bye to any resemblance to amateur sports that is left.
 
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spliff45

Well-Known Member
Exactly. I mean, I don't love Fran, but he does have things to sell. I should add he has kept Iowa in the NCAA Tournament picture. It is not like Iowa is nuclear wasteland as of now.

But, yes, if Fran is an asshole behind the scenes to his players then that word will get out. Hopefully that is not the case and why players like Moss or apparently CJ have left.
There has been some unhappiness with current players and their families due to the playing time of Connor and Patrick even when they've been struggling.
 

MelroseHawkins

Well-Known Member
He could actually point to Garza and say we can produce a Player of the Year here and this is what we can do for you (if you stay and commit of course). Bluder is working on the same thing with Clark.

We are in the Big Ten Conference. We got a lot of coverage.

We have a real active fan base that supports this program.

If you like scoring a lot of points, we have the program for you.

Historically, Iowa has been one the better programs in the country. Take away Hairgel and Lackluster and this program is very respectable.

Dude, I initialy thought that as well being a Hawk fan, but you really need to take the blinders off and look at the history of success of Iowa in basketball. I posted in a thread some time back that Iowa pretty much ranks with NW as the two teams at the bottom when showing conference titles in like 25 or 30 years. Add to that the lack of getting to the tournament or making the Sweet 16. It's bad bud!

Google some of the historical results.
 
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MelroseHawkins

Well-Known Member
There has been some unhappiness with current players and their families due to the playing time of Connor and Patrick even when they've been struggling.


I think there is something definitely to this. Why would a player choose to go to or stay at a place when two of coaches kids play on the team. They can speculate they will have their minutes sacrificed. It's gotta kill recruiting to get a top player in those positions.
 

Hawkfnntn

Well-Known Member
I kinda disagree here. CJ has been really good at getting into the lane when he decides he wants to and has a really good short to mid range finishing ability. He was set to do that whenever he wanted last year and judging from his high school days, that's right up his alley. Weird situation going on here.
His getting into the lane at times could be attributed to having Garza, JW and JBo spacing the floor too. He often would receive a pass where his defender was scrambling to recover and he could easily fake and dribble drive to make his move. He's not a quick tall long armed fast athletic guy that was beating guys with his first step. He beat guys by playing smart coming off screens and always moving too.

CJ is the kind of player where the more he was asked to handle the ball and make plays the more diminishing returns we'd have seen with his efficiency. He's a smart player that rarely tried to do more then he was capable of. But a lot of his driving lanes and open shots were largely due to the guys around him. Of our top 7 or 8 guys I bet he touched the ball the least just about. He didn't dribble much for a guard or play make. It's not his game. Which is fine.

As far as playing like he did in HS goes most guys aren't able to continue playing that same way. The competition doesn't dictate that. He's not going against a bunch of 6'1 slower unathletic guys now. I think his ceiling style wise is what we saw of him for stretches. He'll occasionally have a big game but low double figures scoring is about what he'd get for an average I think.
 

ohhawk

Well-Known Member
Pretty easy to see the portal world favoring those coaches who are noted as strong recruiters. I don't see that playing into our staff's strengths necessarily.

I can see why Fran doesn't like the change.
 

okeefe4prez

Well-Known Member
Yep. The rich are going to get richer and the poor are going to get poorer. There is going to be a level of play in college sports similar to the minor league baseball system to develop players which will eventually go to the top teams. You think there are Blue Bloods now, just wait!

Iowa's going to be like a double AA or AAA team in the hierarchy. Develop talent that will eventually leave.

It was bad enough for the mid western cold climate teams to try to recruit players to be competitive in the national arena, now they have to still battle that and the portal with every player getting a "free get out of jail transfer card".

Now add into that the dark side of recruiting (paying players, boosters paying, stripper benefits) and this all goes to another level for colleges to stay competitive to recruit players, retain them and pull them from the portal.

It's going to be a ride guys!!

Say good bye to any resemblance to amateur sports that is left.

It is going to be really interesting to see what this does to recruiting, particularly in football. A guy like Nick might just basically stop recruiting outside the top 100. He'll get a handful of five stars, a handful of high four stars and then just roll the dice on transfers. Just get him 2 good WRs, a good QB and two dominant d-linemen every class and I'm sure he'll be content just poaching whoever he needs among the transfer ranks. Basically, the way the game has morphed it is such that if you have a stellar QB, 3 great WRs and at least 3 stud d-linemen it is almost impossible to lose a game. The good QBs in the south are so good now that literally the only way to stop them is to be able to get at least one of the linemen home on every snap. Even watching Alabama's slate of stellar DBs against a team like LSU, Georgia or Florida it's basically just a prayer for them to make a play when the QB has a clean pocket and these kids do all these camps so if you blitz, they know the read about 70% of the time and will torch you wherever the open spot is in the defense.

I also think this is going to make locker rooms toxic unless you are a division champ. Many guys are going to insist they should be starting and threatening to transfer. I don't know how the coaches are going to handle that aspect of it. I think we'll see a lot more "Mr. Smith is no longer with the team" sorts of comments in October.
 

Hawkfnntn

Well-Known Member
There has been some unhappiness with current players and their families due to the playing time of Connor and Patrick even when they've been struggling.
Is this legit? I could see it being true I just haven't heard of it. I was watching games looking for that sort of thing. I didn't really like it when PM was the first guy off the bench over Murray sometimes. That seemed head scratching.. But overall when those two played poorly Fran didn't hesitate to yank them. That happened a few times.
 
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