CJ Bethard?

[alexzelada]

I completely agree with this. In Kirk's world if you don't do anything to lose the game, you will win. That's just not the case.

I agree with your agreement. Any coach that expects 50% of his team (defense) to be 100% responsible for the outcome (wins) is not worthy of elite pay. The reason Kirk stayed, was because he knows what the expectations are. And he knows he's much better at bluffing than winning against double-digit underdogs.

 

[Gibsonian]

Well guess what? We got 3 more games this year and all of next year with this same starting qb!

 

[hawkfan2679]

I keep seeing the same thing with Jake - he locks on and his placement on intermediate or deep balls with coverage around is almost always off, just by a little, but it's off.

For instance, in the first quarter, Martin-Manley had his guy beat and Jake tossed it to him and hit KMM in the numbers. Pass was okay, as it was on the receiver and catchable, but the placement was around the breadbasket and its placement was such that the defender could have made a play, which he did and it went for an incompletion. Had it been thrown to the back shoulder, which is the proper placement, it would have been a TD. Contrast that to CJ's TD pass - it was thrown right into the perfect window.

I don't know what CJ's other faults are that Kurt gets to see, but it just seems to me that on intermediate and deep passes, his placement is just very, very solid. To my eye, it looks like the best I've seen out of an Iowa QB going back to maybe Mark Vlasic and being able to toss it through that window from 30+ yards away is an absolute necessity given the way the game has changed. Stanzi had decent accuracy, but a lot of his deep passes were a result of us just having someone wide open and they didn't require really perfect throws.

It is a small difference between the guys, but I've seen enough of Jake to know that he is never going to develop that touch and accuracy. CJ has a really special arm (but I'll be the first to admit that if his head isn't right or he doesn't stay within the playbook and system, that alone isn't enough to win games).

It's subtle, but I agree with you 100%. I posted something very similar in the game thread a couple times...there were 3 throws (off the top of my head) where if the ball is placed on the correct shoulder they are completions.

On 1 of them, Duzey almost dropped it (on a throw that was way inside) but was able to fight off the defender and catch the ball. On the other 2, we have a potential TD to KMM on one of the first drives of the game where the ball was on the inside shoulder and enabled the defender to make play; on the other, I believe it was a reasonably deep ball to Tevaun Smith where the ball was again thrown way inside and Smith had to go almost inside, up and almost through the defender to get to the ball (which was incomplete).

Again, they are little things, but those are potentially game-changing plays (KMM would have scored; Smith would have had a 1st down on 3rd and long). It's also magnified by the fact that when Beathard comes in, within 3 passes or so he's putting a masterful throw on Powell's outside shoulder...so he essentially threw a fade to a 5'9" (?) WR in a spot where only that guy can catch it. That's an unbelievably small window and Beathard swished it.

 

[hwks1]

Rudock is generally satisfactory. And when the rest of the team is ok, that is what the hawks are - Generally Satisfactory.

He can't change a game.

Very true..... I think CJ has that ability and that is what is missing. Has been missing for years.

Imagine where CJ would be at this point, if he had been starting 2 years.

 

[83Hawk]

Rudock is generally satisfactory. And when the rest of the team is ok, that is what the hawks are - Generally Satisfactory.

He can't change a game.

Even the announcers said he won't lose the game...but he won't win it either.

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

ICHawk24, a known member of the Delta Bravo Brigade along with Sparky, gave it to me. It makes him feel like a big man.

Those two are always thumbs downing me...what gives with those two. I think they typically have one thumb in their butts, then do the thumbs down online, just for the reminder that it's not the same thing or to confirm it doesn't feel as good. It certainly couldn't be that my posts suck...look at that percentage on my stuff. LOL

 

[FoolishFellow]

I'm still surprised at how many people are still making excuses for Rudock's performance (especially in the press). In Jon Miller's instant reaction podcast today he compares discussing the QB controversy to "peeing into the wind" which he then feels the need to explain in detail (peeing into the wind, not the QB controversy).

Honestly, the QB controversy seems to me like the most worthwhile discussion there is right now. At this point in the season I think there is probably very little we can do to significantly improve our defensive play. In practice, they should continue to focus on the fundamentals especially tackling.

On offense however, significant improvement could occur by simply switching the QB. Or at the very least giving CJ a bigger role than what he has had so far. The receivers seem exponentially more comfortable catching a Bethard thrown ball than Rudock's (even when Rudock's are on target).

If we start Rudock next week against Wisconsin we will certainly be down early since he has shown us time after time that he cannot finish drives.

I think we can definitely expect some bad games from Bethard (once the inevitable occurs and he becomes the starter assuming he doesn't transfer), but that honestly doesn't bother me much. We've seen more than enough bad and more importantly BORING games from Rudock.

 

[okeefe4prez]

I'm still surprised at how many people are still making excuses for Rudock's performance (especially in the press). In Jon Miller's instant reaction podcast today he compares discussing the QB controversy to "peeing into the wind" which he then feels the need to explain in detail (peeing into the wind, not the QB controversy).

Honestly, the QB controversy seems to me like the most worthwhile discussion there is right now. At this point in the season I think there is probably very little we can do to significantly improve our defensive play. In practice, they should continue to focus on the fundamentals especially tackling.

On offense however, significant improvement could occur by simply switching the QB. Or at the very least giving CJ a bigger role than what he has had so far. The receivers seem exponentially more comfortable catching a Bethard thrown ball than Rudock's (even when Rudock's are on target).

If we start Rudock next week against Wisconsin we will certainly be down early since he has shown us time after time that he cannot finish drives.

I think we can definitely expect some bad games from Bethard (once the inevitable occurs and he becomes the starter assuming he doesn't transfer), but that honestly doesn't bother me much. We've seen more than enough bad and more importantly BORING games from Rudock.

I don't mind boring games from the QB as long as we have a stellar defense and run game. We have neither this year. I think if we start Jake against Wisconsin, we have a 92% chance of losing (we could win if Wisconsin throws it too much and has several INTs like they did against Northwestern). If we start CJ, I think we have a better chance of winning, as the offense just looks better with him running it. He opens up plays down field. Basically, if Jake starts, we can only win if Wisconsin lets us, but if CJ starts, I feel like we could just straight up win - not likely, but at least we would have a shot at it.

 

[Seth53]

I'm a simple person with a simple mind.

My eye ball test tells me CJ is the better QB in the following:

- better arm
- better legs
- energizes team it seems

Guess I must be missing something.

 

[83Hawk]

I'm a simple person with a simple mind.

My eye ball test tells me CJ is the better QB in the following:

- better arm
- better legs
- energizes team it seems

Guess I must be missing something.

You are....remember, CJ doesn't practice well.

 

[hawkphan00]

Relax guys CJ and still learning the playbook. Until he learns all the things Jake knows, he won't see the field until the game is out of reach. How is he gonna check down to the fb in the flat on 3rd and 12? He also must read the defense and audible to Wiesman to the strong side when they have 11 in the box. Until he learns this there is no point in sending him out there, we'd just lose.

 

[Hawkeyerick]

You don't get more playing time by publicly saying the opposite of what the head coach says. Not saying he's not the better QB but the second he spoke out about willies' situation anyone who has watched KF knew he was not playing

 

[ArvadaHawk]

I'm still surprised at how many people are still making excuses for Rudock's performance (especially in the press). In Jon Miller's instant reaction podcast today he compares discussing the QB controversy to "peeing into the wind" which he then feels the need to explain in detail (peeing into the wind, not the QB controversy).

Honestly, the QB controversy seems to me like the most worthwhile discussion there is right now. At this point in the season I think there is probably very little we can do to significantly improve our defensive play. In practice, they should continue to focus on the fundamentals especially tackling.

On offense however, significant improvement could occur by simply switching the QB. Or at the very least giving CJ a bigger role than what he has had so far. The receivers seem exponentially more comfortable catching a Bethard thrown ball than Rudock's (even when Rudock's are on target).

If we start Rudock next week against Wisconsin we will certainly be down early since he has shown us time after time that he cannot finish drives.

I think we can definitely expect some bad games from Bethard (once the inevitable occurs and he becomes the starter assuming he doesn't transfer), but that honestly doesn't bother me much. We've seen more than enough bad and more importantly BORING games from Rudock.

FF, I'm in agreement with pretty much all you state. In JM's defense, in his instant reaction podcast, he is a reporter by trade and reports the facts and was only being factual. There is no qb controversy because kfootball simply won't engage in it. As a fan, he wants to discuss and support the Hawks as, somewhat remarkably and in my opinion in spite of their coaching, at times, they are still in the hunt for the West title and B1G championship.

I think the majority of the diehard fan base understands who the better qb is. kfootball has hitched his wagon to JR and, in my opinion, can only validate his coaching philosophy as still being relevant, by winning the West, at a minimum. Less than that and I believe kfootball has a hard time surviving a mismanagement of player personnel at the most important position in football. The "practice" reasoning has been all but debunked. CJ plays too well when live bullets are flying for it to matter how well he practices. I think we've all come to the conclusion that "not practicing well" really means CJ is throwing to the open (or even semi-open) guy down field, instead of underneath on a dump off.

Biggest game of kfootballs career, next week. There is a part of me that is hoping kfootball has been playing possum in regards to CJ. We need to win shootouts. We're 0-1 in shootouts, down the stretch.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

Nope. There is a cabal of Delta Bravos who hit me with a slew of thumbs downs.

that's just Bravo Sierra.

 

[ColoradoHAWKEYE]

It's subtle, but I agree with you 100%. I posted something very similar in the game thread a couple times...there were 3 throws (off the top of my head) where if the ball is placed on the correct shoulder they are completions.

On 1 of them, Duzey almost dropped it (on a throw that was way inside) but was able to fight off the defender and catch the ball. On the other 2, we have a potential TD to KMM on one of the first drives of the game where the ball was on the inside shoulder and enabled the defender to make play; on the other, I believe it was a reasonably deep ball to Tevaun Smith where the ball was again thrown way inside and Smith had to go almost inside, up and almost through the defender to get to the ball (which was incomplete).

Again, they are little things, but those are potentially game-changing plays (KMM would have scored; Smith would have had a 1st down on 3rd and long). It's also magnified by the fact that when Beathard comes in, within 3 passes or so he's putting a masterful throw on Powell's outside shoulder...so he essentially threw a fade to a 5'9" (?) WR in a spot where only that guy can catch it. That's an unbelievably small window and Beathard swished it.

I agree as well... But also think that the long pass that was caught by KMM was still a tad under thrown, but it was a TD nonetheless....also, in the first series where we didn't score on 3rd and goal (and 4th down as well, I believe), the corner is playing our single wide out in man coverage sitting on way outside. My frustration comes from JR audibling to an inside run and NOT a quick 1 yard slant for an easy 6!

 

[ATLHawkeye]

LOL, Rudock is the John Deere something something of the game. Great. Also, if I hear anyone use the phrase "game manager" ever again, I'm going to explode. "Game manager" is the most meaningless phrase in college football. It's a nice way of saying that your QB isn't very good.

Game manager, game manager, game manager. Just wanted to see if FoolishFellow explodes.

 

[FoolishFellow]

Game manager, game manager, game manager. Just wanted to see if FoolishFellow explodes.

Exploded x 3.

I give our chances 20% with a Rudock start, and 40% with CJ. I'm going to be tearing out my hair come Saturday, I should probably just stay home.

 

[RocknRollface]

It's almost as if KF is trying to prove to us that he knows best with JR, but each and every week he looks quite the opposite. CJB is the better QB and it really isn't even a DEBATE..

We can't win with a coach that makes decisions that aren't based on reality.

Whatever criteria he's choose to fool himself into believing makes Jake a better option is fantasy.

This program can't make it back to respectability in this day and age of college football with decision making that leaves guys like CJ and Derek Willies on the sidelines.

 

[RocknRollface]

There is a reason Kirk wanted to keep Jake C, over Stanzi. Stanzi was good to a pick 6 every other game his 1st year.

Yep and that reason was clearly ridiculous given the lack of ability of JC.

 

[Travisam]

Do you agree with my take on the KMM pass? The announcers called it a good pass, and if there was no defender there, it would have certainly have been a perfect pass, but with a defender there, it struck me as questionable placement. It was just off by a few feet, but it seemed like that made the difference between a TD and an incompletion. It seems like every game we see CJ throw one pass that has NFL accuracy and touch.

I said the exact same thing to Morehouse on twitter right after the pass. He called it a perfect pass. It wasn't even close to a perfect pass. KMM had a step and a half on the DB and had to slow down and the ball was thrown just a tad behind him to where the DB got a play on the ball. A perfect pass would have forced KMM to speed up and catch the ball out in front of him. It also would have resulted in a TD, not a broken up pass.