My God, you're deep. Perhaps it's time for you to come up for air.
Cezar Down to Four
- Thread starter Hawkeyefan
- Start date
My God, you're deep. Perhaps it's time for you to come up for air.
Iowafarmgirl
Banned
First of all, perceptions DO create reality all the time. It is awfully intellectually dishonest to argue other wise. Second of all, your prostitute analogy does not work. It is like saying Fact: Ducks are birds, therefore all birds quack.
What would work better is Fact: All birds have wings, therefore most birds fly. Fact: College basketball recruiting is dirty, therefore most people involved in it are dirty.
Why don't I see you white knighting SEC football whenever someone calls them a bunch of cheaters? After all, just because some people in the SEC cheat, that doesn't mean they all do...right?
uofihawkInation
Well-Known Member
There are multiple sources out there that point to the idea that all SEC coaches do cheat. But what does that have to do with college basketball recruiting? It just seems silly to assume that because some coaches do dirty recruiting that a team who is rebuilding would risk that. Especially one from a small time school in a small time conference (Sienna).
Iowafarmgirl
Banned
To me it seems silly to assume they won't.
oifdeserthawk
Well-Known Member
oifdeserthawk
Well-Known Member
Given the choice of assuming Iowa is or isn't cheating, you choose is....you're as bad at this as coachesdaughter on tos...
Taylor and Selby may leave KU, but not as 1st round draft picks. Selby's shine is fading very quickly by the way he has played this year (he cannot stay in the starting lineup because he cannot fit into the team concept and handle pressure defense, Reed and Morningstar are much better). My concern is, I think Morningstar and Reed are leaving and Self is not afraid to keep Selby on the bench for a freshman with potential. I just hope that the excitement of Cezar's visit and the new renovations, coach ect... will want him to be a part of something big In Iowa City. The first time at a KU game, it was nice to see the campus, Arena, Basketball history hanging from the rafters, but Carver is a beautiful arena (yes, better than Allen FieldHouse) in a great college town that is hungry for basketball to return. Or go to KU, try to live up to expectations (if you do, great) but don't be surprised to find yourself having to prove yourself in the draft prep because you sat on the bench for most of your college playing career. The Pulse in Iowa City can be felt down here in Kansas and hopefully reaches to California and beyond......
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hawkjunkie
Well-Known Member
I saw that. They have 3 highly ranked PG's on the team, a freshman, sophmore & junior. PLUS, a semi-pro transfer in C.J. Henry, who played pro ball, then went to the University of Memphis. Henry is now sitting out because of transfer rules. A 5th PG does not make sense, even if two might be leaving.
Kansas having sooo many PGs that it makes me think, maybe we should sign 2 PGs? We have Cartwright & Cully, but even if Cully makes a full recovery he is considered to be a 2 position gaurd by a lot of people. With just Cartwright and Cezar, or whoever, another PG wouldn't hurt.
hawkfarmer
Well-Known Member
Then we have no bigs in this class. not good.
Iowafarmgirl
Banned
I never said I thought Iowa was cheating. I said CBB recruiting is dirty, and that because it is dirty, it makes those who are clean appear dirty. I didn't accuse anyone of anything, particularly the Iowa coaches.
What I will say is this: The system is broken, kids are exploited by AAU (and sometimes HS)coaches in bed with agents, there is a ton of money floating around with no way to track it. College coaches are under tremendous pressure to win, and stand to lose their million dollar gigs if they have a few bad seasons. Most importantly of all, there is almost no regulation from the NCAA, and when they do catch someone cheating, the punishment is a joke. Honestly, someone address these points and tell me where I am wrong?
In a system like this, how can one honestly expect to compete without getting dirty? I am sure there are some who do it the right way, but if I had to guess, in a system where one stands to gain millions by breaking rules no one enforces, more people break the rules than follow them.
Section136
Well-Known Member
Cool Kaldenberg. Still didnt answer the question.
BALDIES7980
Well-Known Member
IFG not to belittle your point as I think its vaild in terms of things being "broken" but how is this different than what goes on in Washington D.C.?
I dont think I'm going out on a limb saying its pretty hard to get 18-22 yr olds to work thru honest avenues when every day the stench of the human disease(greed) is boldly shoved in the face of the American people by the very people elected to run it in a democratic fashion.
Its an unfixable problem and more importantly due to personal benefit very few truly want to "fix" it.
Iowafarmgirl
Banned
Acctually, I did make the connection between politcians and Basketball coaches on the previous page, and I do feel the same way about both. Namely that the few squeaky clean guys in the business are dirty by association, and also because they stand to aid their career and finances for breaking the rules, and because there is little to no oversight of their actions and almost no penalty for being caught. They also are both full of weasles who win over the public with a false image and are protected by a media who also stands to benefit from the current system remaining unaltered.
Sorry,not buying. You are saying that because there are some dirty college coaches,that creates actual evidence that a specific coach is dirty,simply because of the perception. Show me concrete evidence of wrong-doing,then I believe that coach is dirty,not that every coach in the conference or in that business is dirty.
As was said, reality is rooted in fact,not your perception. Clearly,in your mind, you seem to have made the leap from your own opinon to factual reality. You think it,so therefore,it is fact....wrong.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
IFG hasn't accused Fran of anything. And she's right. She's not singling anyone out. But the perception is that dirty recruiting is everywhere (and it IS pretty widespread, in all major sports). Almost no coach is above that perception. That doesn't mean you think that Fran is dirty, but it means that you don't assume he isn't, either.
Because it's foolish to assume either. More of a "I don't think he is, but it wouldn't really surprise me if he was."
uofihawkInation
Well-Known Member
I see what you are saying here and agree, but the way to look at it and say Fran is clean, or I can assume he is, is because of who he is bringing in. If he was bringing in top 150 talent in his first year at a down program, I would be worried about the NCAA investigating. BUT he is in on ONE 4* prospect out of many this year. I wouldn't make this assumption if our class was one loaded with highly touted prospects.
Same reasons I believe KF recruits clean or at least cleaner than a lot of other programs. I'm not being biased, but I feel if we are paying or giving things to recruits we better be getting the best of the best coming out of high school like Auburn FB and Kentucky BB is now.
Again,she said that ''perception create reality'', which means because the perception that recruiting is dirty therefore is proof that a coach,any coach is dirty. Assuming, is opinion,unless there is empirical evidence to support that asssumption. It is intellectually lazy to paint all coaches with one broad brush. There are 356 Div 1 bb programs,and stating that because Tim Floyd at USC paid OJ Mayo necessarily means that University of Vermont or the University of Iowa is also dirty is wrong.
And of course ''dirty'' is a relative term itself. Alford was cited by the NCAA for posing for calender for some charity while at Indiana...therefore,Bob Knight is dirty? I am not as cynical as some,apparently,and will wait for evidence before making blanket statements condemning all 356 head coaches.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
You're taking that expression a little too literally, IMO. Perception is reality in this society. Is it always the truth? No. But perception becomes reality anymore because of the way the media and society in general push those perceptions with such repetition that it gets treated as truth. That has a great effect on the world.
"If you tell a lie that's big enough, and tell it often enough, the people will believe it."- Adolf Hitler
Iowafarmgirl
Banned
That is not even close to what I said. Name one specific coach I said was dirty. One. I'll be eagerly awaiting that.
I don't believe that. Perception alters reality all the time. Politics was one example I gave. Look at steroids in baseball, and how perception has effected every person who played from '95-2007. Our perceptions of anyone; of actors, athletes, and musicians are almost ALWAYS based on perceptions instead of reality. You don't really know these people.
Again you either have failed to read what I say, or you're intentionally misconstruing it because you don't like me. I explained my line of reasoning pretty well. I never said anything was "A fact" (I never once spoke in absolutes). To me, it seems to reason in a high stakes game filled with money and no policing or consequences, that many people would break the rules.
Guess that makes me the bad girl...
Hawkeye11en1
Well-Known Member
You're wrong! Addressed.
Ok, so I really don't think you are wrong, just couldn't pass it up.
