Can we agree, Fran will have more to work with than Alford or Lickliter?

storminspank

storminspank

Justin VanLaere
More initial talent.
Better facilities coming.
Etc...

Should we expect a better first couple seasons than Alford or Lickliter gave us? Is that unreasonable?
 
More initial talent? No
Better facilites? Yes

Initial season? I say it takes him 2 years to get over .500
 
year 1= Improved style of play... with the guys having fun
year 2= Improvement with more W's
year 3= with an expanded tournament... we should be dancing...

If there is at least some improvement each year I say we let him go for 5+...

* by we... I just think we need some stability... not that I have much say in the matter :)

storminspank said:
More initial talent.
Better facilities coming.
Etc...

Should we expect a better first couple seasons than Alford or Lickliter gave us? Is that unreasonable?
Click to expand...
 
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storminspank said:
More initial talent.
Better facilities coming.
Etc...

Should we expect a better first couple seasons than Alford or Lickliter gave us? Is that unreasonable?
Click to expand...

I said that in an earlier thread. I truly think this is a better job now than when Alford came. I don't think people realize the support this guy is going to get from the athletic department. Barta knows if this doesn's work he's gonna have to get familiar with monster.com. If Fran asks for the Moon Barta's going to try and get it.

I'd think we could be .500 borderline NIT next year and at minimum a bubble NCAA team the year following.
 
OK, let's debate the talent levels. (I'm not saying I'm right or wrong, just wanting to debate it.)

Look at Steve and Todd's first year rosters and compare them to Fran's.
Fran also has a Top 30 (roughly) recruiting class of Todd's coming in.
 
The Iowa program is in the bottom of the pit in the country... That was not the way it was when Alford or Lick was hired. That is a challenge when recruiting at a MAJOR Conference. The key to this will be who he hires as his assitants and how hard they work and how successful they are on the recruiting trail.
 
Alford inherited a program that wasn't in terrible shape at all, but was in a small transitional phase. Lick took over a program in shambles after Alford. I'd say Fran is getting a slightly better situation than Lick considering the incoming freshman and Gatens.
 
Better facilities without question (once complete).

I think the talent level is more debatable, but throw in next year's freshmen (who I have not seen play yet), and that may be true.

Remember, Alford didn't inherit Mr. Davis's Sweet 16 team. Most of that team graduated, so Alford didn't have an abundance of talent coming back from the previous year, especially since Davis couldn't recruit much in his lame duck year.

Alford left so-so talent, but not sure if it's more than what McCaffery should have next year. It mostly depends on the incoming class, IMO.
 
The thing that hurt Alford and Lick on the talent is that both had significant players leave from the previous season. Alford had Rucker and Range (both academics) and Lick had Tyler Smith. Those types of players significantly change those first rosters.

So if McCaffery will have everybody stay than yes I would agree. He will have at least 12 players for next year without recruiting anyone which will be a big step up from his previous two coaches.

So yes I would expect more wins than the first years of the Lick and Alford eras. I would hope for 17-18 wins. If McCaffery however thinks that certain players need to move on so he can have more scholarships available in 2011, my win expectation would go down. I would totally support sacrificing a few wins in his first year for better recruits in 2011.
 
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If Fran can get Allen and keep Larson, then this year's class will be good.

In terms of overall potential probably not as good as Alford's initial group.

But, in terms of readiness, probably better.

Iowa will have Cole, Gatens, Fuller, and May as experienced guys that will be strong enough to play on any Big Ten team next year. Payne will probably improve with the style of play.

Larson is Big Ten ready. BB, Marble, and McCabe should be able to contribute minutes to rest the starters, as the style will dictate.

Size in the middle is the big deficit. Hopefully, the coach can go out and get some help in that area.

Probably best thing for this team would be a CBI, CTI, or NIT tournament with some home games to get the fans back into the arena and get the team more games to learn the new system.

One thing I found interesting in the shots of players going to meet their coach was that there was no sign of Archie. Might just not have got a shot, but all the other players were there.

If we could take that scholarship and turn it into an athletic big man it would help.
 
Cyclones17 said:
More initial talent? No
Better facilites? Yes

Initial season? I say it takes him 2 years to get over .500
Click to expand...

Wow really?
I think you should stick to breaking down Iowa State basketball...

The 99-00 roster was...
Dean Oliver
Rob Griffin
Jake Jaacks
Kyle Galloway
Ryan Luehrsman
Duez Henderson
Jason Price
Rod Thompson

Next Years Roster is
Cully
Cole
Fuller
May
Gatens
Cougs
Brommer
Marble
Brust
McCabe
Larsen

I'd take the second roster in a heartbeat.
 
You gotta at least consider that Tyler Smith left the Iowa program when Lickliter was hired. I know things ended up not working out for him at the end at Tennessee but he's a more talented player than anyone currently on the roster and probably any of the recruits as well..
 
PeoriaHWKI said:
The Iowa program is in the bottom of the pit in the country... That was not the way it was when Alford or Lick was hired. That is a challenge when recruiting at a MAJOR Conference. The key to this will be who he hires as his assitants and how hard they work and how successful they are on the recruiting trail.
Click to expand...

I think people quickly forget how empty Alford left the cupboard when he bolted. He knew things were going downhill, and he bailed at the perfect time. I believe that Caff will have better circumstances to deal with, especially with the new facilities on the way.
 
Guys, something else you need to keep in mind when talking about the state of a program.

Last years record is not as big a factor to players as it is to fans. Records are easy to change, you just win more games. Some kids even look favorable on subpar W-L's because they see early PT. It's a hell of a lot easier to sell a kid that you are going to win than it is to come to a school where we fight for practice time with women's volleyball....

The truth is lack of ***** in the stands is a far bigger stain than lack W's is for a lot of kids.

W and L's are temporary and can change, facilities on the other hand are permanent.
 
Smith never played for Lick so I dont count that.

I think that the roster we expect to be in Iowa City next year is more talented than the roster Alford took over and certainly the roster Lick took over. There is a ton of experience coming back next year along with a good crop of new players. And as spank mentioned, the facilities issue is no longer an obstacle for Iowa to recruit against.

McCaffery is taking over a better situation in my opinion, but he is also under more pressure.

I think next year's team could flirt with .500. I think in two years, Gatens senior year, if the tourney is expanded to 96, they could make that. If it's not by then, then the NIT. Year three in the NCAA is a must.
 
storminspank said:
OK, let's debate the talent levels. (I'm not saying I'm right or wrong, just wanting to debate it.)

Look at Steve and Todd's first year rosters and compare them to Fran's.
Fran also has a Top 30 (roughly) recruiting class of Todd's coming in.
Click to expand...

See I disagree. Only Van has them as a top 30 class. Most other places rank the class 7th or 8th in the conference. The most important thing for Fran to do when he gets here is recruit. Has to be able to bring in some talent and get the good instate talent that seems to be here right now.


J.R. Angle






Dan Bohall





Jarryd Cole






Joel Cornette






Tony Freeman






Seth Gorney






Justin Johnson






Jake Kelly






Todd Lickliter


Kurt Looby






David Palmer






Jeff Peterson






Cyrus Tate

Freeman is better than Payne and was a Junior
Tate was better than any big on the current roster
Looby was better than anyone
Jake Kelly?
Justin Johnson was solid
Peterson vs Cully? Neither are world beaters
Gorney was alright

I think Lick walked into a much better spot


Alford had Dean Oliver when he got here. Didn't he have Joey Range too?
 
Maybe I have unrealistic expectations.

But I don't see any reason if every player and every recruit commits themselves over the offseason that we don't win at least 16 games next year.

With as weak as our non conference schedule usually is, there will be no excuse for not winning 10 of those games. I mean even Lick did that in year 2. Then I would like to think that we can improve on last years 4 win total in the Big 10.

Year 1: Over .500 Overall
Year 2: NCAA

His second year will have Gatens and FUller as seniors, Payne and May as Juniors, and Brust, Marble, McCabe and Larson as sophomore, not to mention whomever he brings in as Freshmen. That ought to be a decent team.
 
Cyclones17 said:
Looby was better than anyone
Click to expand...

epic-failure.jpg
 
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