Bugeater Bowl

[ShemHawk]

Nebraska found a way to play in a bowl every year.

The University of Nebraska is planning a $450 million renovation of the Cornhuskers' football stadium in Lincoln...

Nebraska Athletic Director Trev Alberts said in a September announcement that catering to that fan base played a large role in the stadium renovation, which will include more restrooms, more concourse connectivity to make it a true "bowl," widened walkways and adding chairbacks for stadium seating.

And they plan to reduce seating by about 15,000. Times are tough and those boosters are getting tired of buying so many empty seats.

https://www.espn.com/college-footba...d-450m-renovation-football-stadium-criticized

Oh, and they are trying to cut the rest of the university's budget by about $58M and facing accusations of prioritizing athletics over education.

 

[Fryowa]

Oh, and they are trying to cut the rest of the university's budget by about $58M and facing accusations of prioritizing athletics over education.

First, I hate the huskers more than any athletics program on the planet. Let’s get that out of the way.

But…these arguments about coaches’ salaries and facility funding being extravagant and occurring while cuts are happening to funding in university budgets need to f*cking stop. Honestly.

Public money doesn’t get used for this stuff, and it couldn’t get used for university/academic funding anyway. It’s money generated by the athletic department from ticket sales, advertising revenue, and donations. Full stop. People bitching about KF’s high wages (highest paid public employe, blah, blah, blah), stadium renovations, and yes—even nebraska’s football facilities are idiots who don’t know how business entities and accounting work.

P5 athletic departments are their own animals with only token ties to the university, I don’t care what any geriatric alumni might think. These football and basketball programs are minor league pro sports teams that just happen to wear the colors of a college in town. Yeah the players go to school there, and yeah, the coaches get checks with the university name on them, but for the most part it’s a technicality. You can rah rah rah, yay college! all you want but at the end of the day almost all of these players at this level are there to play sports and school is just an irritating requirement of that.

Donors, fans, and advertisers are building these stadiums and paying for these coaches, and they are the ones footing the bill for tuition, charter planes, and 5,000 pairs of Nike/Adidas/Under Armour shoes. Complaining about (or even making note of) athletics expenditures compared to spending on academia shows a total ignorance of how funding and spending work at a P5 athletic program. People using it as incitement to try and get other people pissed off are unintelligent morons.

Sorry.

 

[HuckFinn]

First, I hate the huskers more than any athletics program on the planet. Let’s get that out of the way.

But…these arguments about coaches’ salaries and facility funding being extravagant and occurring while cuts to funding in university budgets need to f*cking stop. Honestly.

Public money doesn’t get used for this stuff, and it couldn’t get used for university/academic funding anyway. It’s money generated by the athletic department from ticket sales, advertising revenue, and donations. Full stop. People bitching about KF’s high wages (highest paid public employe, blah, blah, blah), stadium renovations, and yes—even nebraska’s football facilities are idiots who don’t know how business entities and accounting work.

P5 athletic departments are their own animals with only token ties to the university, I don’t care what any geriatric alumni might think. These football and basketball programs are minor league pro sports teams that just happen to wear the colors of a college in town. Yeah the players go to school there, and yeah, the coaches get checks with the university name on them, but for the most part it’s a technicality. You can rah rah rah, yay college! all you want but at the end of the day almost all of these players at this level are there to play sports and school is just an irritating requirement of that.

Donors, fans, and advertisers are building these stadiums and paying for these coaches, and they are the ones footing the bill for tuition, charter planes, and 5,000 pairs of Nike/Adidas/Under Armour shoes. Complaining about (or even making note of) athletics expenditures compared to spending on academia shows a total ignorance of how funding and spending work at a P5 athletic program at best. People using it as incitement to try and get other people pissed off are unintelligent morons.

Sorry.

Thank you. I, too, have made this clear to countless numbers of naïve individuals. Keep up the good work.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

Fry, your thoughts are true about every other major athletic department except Nebraska. They absolutely are taking money from science, nursing, and special education teaching programs and pumping into the athletic department to keep it afloat. The only answer is to cut the football program, bulldoze that modular home stadium, and plant some pasture land so their ex cheerleaders have a place to graze....

 

[okeefe4prez]

Public money doesn’t get used for this stuff, and it couldn’t get used for university/academic funding anyway. It’s money generated by the athletic department from ticket sales, advertising revenue, and donations. Full stop. People bitching about KF’s high wages (highest paid public employe, blah, blah, blah), stadium renovations, and yes—even nebraska’s football facilities are idiots who don’t know how business entities and accounting work.

The cocksure Millennial who is absolutely certain that the future will resemble the past. It will not.

These organizations operate on long-term plans and those plans include incurring debt to fund long-lived projects. That's fine and dandy as long as the music never stops. Washington State took that gamble and they lost huge. Their organization at large is going to have to subsidize their athletic department for the foreseeable future.

Nebraska will be fine, but literally every program that isn't in approximately the top 15-ish of historical power rankings needs to be really careful about extending their material obligations beyond any period in which they have guaranteed media rights. The demographics of the country are changing fast, technology is changing fast, consumer tastes are changing fast. Even a school like Iowa needs to exercise extreme prudence before committing a copious amount of funding to a future project. We hire the wrong coach, drop to a perennial sub .500 level team and then the media landscape changes on the next deal and we could easily waltz into an existential crisis real fast.

 

[ShemHawk]

First, I hate the huskers more than any athletics program on the planet. Let’s get that out of the way.

But…these arguments about coaches’ salaries and facility funding being extravagant and occurring while cuts to funding in university budgets need to f*cking stop. Honestly.

Public money doesn’t get used for this stuff, and it couldn’t get used for university/academic funding anyway. It’s money generated by the athletic department from ticket sales, advertising revenue, and donations. Full stop. People bitching about KF’s high wages (highest paid public employe, blah, blah, blah), stadium renovations, and yes—even nebraska’s football facilities are idiots who don’t know how business entities and accounting work.

P5 athletic departments are their own animals with only token ties to the university, I don’t care what any geriatric alumni might think. These football and basketball programs are minor league pro sports teams that just happen to wear the colors of a college in town. Yeah the players go to school there, and yeah, the coaches get checks with the university name on them, but for the most part it’s a technicality. You can rah rah rah, yay college! all you want but at the end of the day almost all of these players at this level are there to play sports and school is just an irritating requirement of that.

Donors, fans, and advertisers are building these stadiums and paying for these coaches, and they are the ones footing the bill for tuition, charter planes, and 5,000 pairs of Nike/Adidas/Under Armour shoes. Complaining about (or even making note of) athletics expenditures compared to spending on academia shows a total ignorance of how funding and spending work at a P5 athletic program at best. People using it as incitement to try and get other people pissed off are unintelligent morons.

Sorry.

First, I hate the huskers more than any athletics program on the planet. Let’s get that out of the way.

But…these arguments about coaches’ salaries and facility funding being extravagant and occurring while cuts are happening to funding in university budgets need to f*cking stop. Honestly.

Public money doesn’t get used for this stuff, and it couldn’t get used for university/academic funding anyway. It’s money generated by the athletic department from ticket sales, advertising revenue, and donations. Full stop. People bitching about KF’s high wages (highest paid public employe, blah, blah, blah), stadium renovations, and yes—even nebraska’s football facilities are idiots who don’t know how business entities and accounting work.

P5 athletic departments are their own animals with only token ties to the university, I don’t care what any geriatric alumni might think. These football and basketball programs are minor league pro sports teams that just happen to wear the colors of a college in town. Yeah the players go to school there, and yeah, the coaches get checks with the university name on them, but for the most part it’s a technicality. You can rah rah rah, yay college! all you want but at the end of the day almost all of these players at this level are there to play sports and school is just an irritating requirement of that.

Donors, fans, and advertisers are building these stadiums and paying for these coaches, and they are the ones footing the bill for tuition, charter planes, and 5,000 pairs of Nike/Adidas/Under Armour shoes. Complaining about (or even making note of) athletics expenditures compared to spending on academia shows a total ignorance of how funding and spending work at a P5 athletic program. People using it as incitement to try and get other people pissed off are unintelligent morons.

Sorry.

Not sure who you're saying sorry too. My last comment was a tongue-in-cheek jab at those who didn't already realize that Nebraska values athletics more than academics.

Of course, given that athletics borrowed $50M from the university a few years ago, maybe it isn't quite as black and white as you think.

 

[thedukeofearl]

Nebraska found a way to play in a bowl every year.





And they plan to reduce seating by about 15,000. Times are tough and those boosters are getting tired of buying so many empty seats.

https://www.espn.com/college-footba...d-450m-renovation-football-stadium-criticized

Oh, and they are trying to cut the rest of the university's budget by about $58M and facing accusations of prioritizing athletics over education.

Desperate times call for Desperate measures

They B Desperate

 

[NorthKCHawk]

The cocksure Millennial who is absolutely certain that the future will resemble the past. It will not.

These organizations operate on long-term plans and those plans include incurring debt to fund long-lived projects. That's fine and dandy as long as the music never stops. Washington State took that gamble and they lost huge. Their organization at large is going to have to subsidize their athletic department for the foreseeable future.

Nebraska will be fine, but literally every program that isn't in approximately the top 15-ish of historical power rankings needs to be really careful about extending their material obligations beyond any period in which they have guaranteed media rights. The demographics of the country are changing fast, technology is changing fast, consumer tastes are changing fast. Even a school like Iowa needs to exercise extreme prudence before committing a copious amount of funding to a future project. We hire the wrong coach, drop to a perennial sub .500 level team and then the media landscape changes on the next deal and we could easily waltz into an existential crisis real fast.

These are wise thoughts. Luckily, I don't see Kinnick in need of any sort of major overhaul for quite some time. Memorial Stadium is an absolute dump. Its like 3 different stadiums stitched together with steroids, dusty trophies, and Bob DeVanney's embalming fluid. Dumping a huge sum of money into that stadium to modernize it makes sense. Nebraska is one of those programs that can count on its football remaining popular for the foreseeable future. They sell out every game, and despite the fact that they have sucked for near a decade and were marginally relevant for the decade before that, they pack 90,000 into that dump every week. There is literally nothing else in this state to do except eat Runzas and go to the zoo.

That said, the younger generation has different tastes, and removing some seating and making the experience more modern is also smart.

For Iowa, there has to be a reckoning on an upgraded BB facility sooner rather than later, but that is a lot cheaper than dealing with a major facelift for a football stadium.

 

[okeefe4prez]

These are wise thoughts. Luckily, I don't see Kinnick in need of any sort of major overhaul for quite some time. Memorial Stadium is an absolute dump. Its like 3 different stadiums stitched together with steroids, dusty trophies, and Bob DeVanney's embalming fluid. Dumping a huge sum of money into that stadium to modernize it makes sense. Nebraska is one of those programs that can count on its football remaining popular for the foreseeable future. They sell out every game, and despite the fact that they have sucked for near a decade and were marginally relevant for the decade before that, they pack 90,000 into that dump every week. There is literally nothing else in this state to do except eat Runzas and go to the zoo.

That said, the younger generation has different tastes, and removing some seating and making the experience more modern is also smart.

For Iowa, there has to be a reckoning on an upgraded BB facility sooner rather than later, but that is a lot cheaper than dealing with a major facelift for a football stadium.

Yeah, I agree. Iowa is in a good spot for now, but even schools like Michigan State, Illinois, Purdue, Minnesota, Arkansas, Mississippi State, etc. have to be really careful over the next few years because of the shakiness of the financial model holding the collegiate sports networks together. Nebraska prolly isn't in that boat, but it's pretty damned close to the cut line of places that should exercise extreme caution.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

Yeah, I agree. Iowa is in a good spot for now, but even schools like Michigan State, Illinois, Purdue, Minnesota, Arkansas, Mississippi State, etc. have to be really careful over the next few years because of the shakiness of the financial model holding the collegiate sports networks together. Nebraska prolly isn't in that boat, but it's pretty damned close to the cut line of places that should exercise extreme caution.

Football is going to remain wildly popular for at least a generation given where it sits. Overtime, will the violence/injuries, and competition in the viewing marketplace, erode its lofty perch? Probably. But that will be a slow trend.

Really the game changing event you are eluding to that could happen in the near term is a super conference of big boys being formed---the top half of all the major conferences jettisons the Purdues and Vandy's of the world. Nebraska makes that cut. As shitty as they have been, they move the meter in terms of fan support and dedication to football. Anyone who packs 90k a week brings value to the table.

Does Iowa make the cut? Probably, but certainly not assured.

Would a second tier football division still be lucrative? Yes, but there would certainly be a major drop off.

I don't see Michigan and OSU throwing in with the SEC for this idea. They have nothing in common with those community colleges except good football and love of money. And, I think they like owning their own conference rather that just being one of the crowd in the way that Texas and Oklahoma has decided to be. The Big10 has a permanent seat at the table, and the money is damn good.

The only way I see this happening is some sort of LIV deal, where the Saudi's or some other endless pocket book throws a couple of billion dollars at the top 30 schools to break away and form a new league. Hard to envision it. Look how efforts to compete with the NFL have gone. But, sports and sports business has become very hard to predict in a quickly changing environment.

 

[ShemHawk]

...they pack 90,000 into that dump every week.

Selling 90k tickets for every home game is not the same as packing the stadium for every home game. I realize 90k tickets sold is 90k tickets sold regardless of how it happens, but actually packing the stadium brings a lot more revenue than selling the tickets and having 10-15k empty seats...not to mention the public perception of significant swaths of empty seats on TV.

If they carry out their plan to reduce seating to 75k, they may pack the stadium.

 

[okeefe4prez]

Football is going to remain wildly popular for at least a generation given where it sits. Overtime, will the violence/injuries, and competition in the viewing marketplace, erode its lofty perch? Probably. But that will be a slow trend.

Really the game changing event you are eluding to that could happen in the near term is a super conference of big boys being formed---the top half of all the major conferences jettisons the Purdues and Vandy's of the world. Nebraska makes that cut. As shitty as they have been, they move the meter in terms of fan support and dedication to football. Anyone who packs 90k a week brings value to the table.

Does Iowa make the cut? Probably, but certainly not assured.

Would a second tier football division still be lucrative? Yes, but there would certainly be a major drop off.

I don't see Michigan and OSU throwing in with the SEC for this idea. They have nothing in common with those community colleges except good football and love of money. And, I think they like owning their own conference rather that just being one of the crowd in the way that Texas and Oklahoma has decided to be. The Big10 has a permanent seat at the table, and the money is damn good.

The only way I see this happening is some sort of LIV deal, where the Saudi's or some other endless pocket book throws a couple of billion dollars at the top 30 schools to break away and form a new league. Hard to envision it. Look how efforts to compete with the NFL have gone. But, sports and sports business has become very hard to predict in a quickly changing environment.

Correct, this is my fear in a nutshell. Big Ten deal ends, PSU, OSU and Michigan start talking to some other blue bloods about a conference where they can create top line content every week and then they don't have to share funding with Purdue, Vandy, Northwestern, etc. I don't have cable so I only saw what was on Fox Big Noon and the games on OTA and I have to say that the Big Ten content just absolutely sucked this past year. It ain't worth what they're paying. The Iowa games were the best content outside of the Ohio-Michigan game.

So what you may see is maybe 20 teams break out and form something where they can get $100 million per annum, probably more like $150 million per annum by 2031. If that breakdown happens, what is Iowa worth? Realistically it's probably half of what we're getting now. 3/4ths if we are lucky.

With that new model comes substantial risk because if PSU got into the club and then found out that they didn't really belong after a half dozen consecutive sub-.500 seasons, what does that do to the long term brand equity and goodwill in the program? It will mathematically be a certainty to some of these teams. It has to be. It is a zero sum game. But the only way it holds together is if Michigan, Ohio and Penn realize that the best path to long-term protection of their IP is to continue to have 10+ win teams that pound the crap out of Iowa, Purdue, Wisconsin, etc. and that it makes sense to subsidize those programs to preserve their own goodwill. It ain't a certainty, which is why if I were an AD I would be studying the hell out of what happened to Washington State and making absolutely certain that it doesn't happen to my program.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

These are wise thoughts. Luckily, I don't see Kinnick in need of any sort of major overhaul for quite some time. Memorial Stadium is an absolute dump. Its like 3 different stadiums stitched together with steroids, dusty trophies, and Bob DeVanney's embalming fluid. Dumping a huge sum of money into that stadium to modernize it makes sense. Nebraska is one of those programs that can count on its football remaining popular for the foreseeable future. They sell out every game, and despite the fact that they have sucked for near a decade and were marginally relevant for the decade before that, they pack 90,000 into that dump every week. There is literally nothing else in this state to do except eat Runzas and go to the zoo.

That said, the younger generation has different tastes, and removing some seating and making the experience more modern is also smart.

For Iowa, there has to be a reckoning on an upgraded BB facility sooner rather than later, but that is a lot cheaper than dealing with a major facelift for a football stadium.

Hell, they are going on 20+ yrs of suckatood. I know they were sucking balls around the time of Iowa's 2002 season and Orange Bowl and Iowa successful BIG seasons after that.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Selling 90k tickets for every home game is not the same as packing the stadium for every home game. I realize 90k tickets sold is 90k tickets sold regardless of how it happens, but actually packing the stadium brings a lot more revenue than selling the tickets and having 10-15k empty seats...not to mention the public perception of significant swaths of empty seats on TV.

If they carry out their plan to reduce seating to 75k, they may pack the stadium.

They are going to be like Iowa and bank they can generate the ticket revenue with less public seating with the corporate/private boxes and seating.

I could see this happening in the basketball arenas as well. To incorporate Iowa's bad attendance from another thread, I don't think this is just isolated to Iowa but to many basketball programs. I think it's a pretty widespread problem for most schools not named Duke, Kansas, Gonzaga, etc.. Schools battle the viewing options along with much better in-home electronics and other various reasons. Couple that with funky start times for games and the landscape has changed for the fan. Look when Iowa played Creighton, both regional teams in the same zone, starting at 9:00. The viewing opportunities for college teams have never been better, but some team(s) have to start late for broadcasting reasons. Fans aren't going to want to attend that.

I see remodeling in arenas in the future to include these private/corporate boxes or private seating to entice the corporations or wealthy to keep the revenue coming in. Picture a private box with a little open patio area that the wealthy corps or fans can sit in then go into the box if they wish to get away from the proles sitting in coach below.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Correct, this is my fear in a nutshell. Big Ten deal ends, PSU, OSU and Michigan start talking to some other blue bloods about a conference where they can create top line content every week and then they don't have to share funding with Purdue, Vandy, Northwestern, etc. I don't have cable so I only saw what was on Fox Big Noon and the games on OTA and I have to say that the Big Ten content just absolutely sucked this past year. It ain't worth what they're paying. The Iowa games were the best content outside of the Ohio-Michigan game.

So what you may see is maybe 20 teams break out and form something where they can get $100 million per annum, probably more like $150 million per annum by 2031. If that breakdown happens, what is Iowa worth? Realistically it's probably half of what we're getting now. 3/4ths if we are lucky.

With that new model comes substantial risk because if PSU got into the club and then found out that they didn't really belong after a half dozen consecutive sub-.500 seasons, what does that do to the long term brand equity and goodwill in the program? It will mathematically be a certainty to some of these teams. It has to be. It is a zero sum game. But the only way it holds together is if Michigan, Ohio and Penn realize that the best path to long-term protection of their IP is to continue to have 10+ win teams that pound the crap out of Iowa, Purdue, Wisconsin, etc. and that it makes sense to subsidize those programs to preserve their own goodwill. It ain't a certainty, which is why if I were an AD I would be studying the hell out of what happened to Washington State and making absolutely certain that it doesn't happen to my program.

Yep, being the team that is the best of the worst might not be a bad place to sit or be as you explain. Not being in the top tier blue blood conference and being that team a top of the tier 2 conference might better for teams.

 

[okeefe4prez]

Yep, being the team that is the best of the worst might not be a bad place to sit or be as you explain. Not being in the top tier blue blood conference and being that team a top of the tier 2 conference might better for teams.

For sure. Let's say the blue bloods can cut a 10 year TV deal that works out to $150 million per annum. Now say Penn State is in that club and fails to win 6 games a single time in that decade. What will that do to their fanbase? If there was a split out and Iowa and Wisconsin came out as king shit of the turds I guarantee you that the enterprise value of Iowa football would be higher than a few of the teams at the bottom of the blue blood league after a decade.

 

[Teddy]

Nebraska found a way to play in a bowl every year.





And they plan to reduce seating by about 15,000. Times are tough and those boosters are getting tired of buying so many empty seats.

https://www.espn.com/college-footba...d-450m-renovation-football-stadium-criticized

Oh, and they are trying to cut the rest of the university's budget by about $58M and facing accusations of prioritizing athletics over education.

Are there academics at Nebraska?

 

[Teddy]

All of the above are the factual premises of my opinion that the Iowa AD's job, now in 2023, is raising money, directly and through cooperation with the NIL to the extent that cooperation is legal.

Iowa has needs and needs a lot more money to meet them.