Ben Rapistberger is the most overrated QB of the modern era

Clark said:
You're cherry picking stats depending on which player you are are arguing for.

You've used passer rating a bunch but there aren't 10 other active quarterbacks with a higher career passer rating.

Edit: Big Ben is 8th on the all-time list

NFL Career Passer Rating Leaders - Pro-Football-Reference.com
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*Sigh* I'm not using QB rating alone to say anything and I'm not cherry picking stats. I'm saying looking at the big picture and his whole body of work Ben is an average NFL QB.

The people that disagree with me virtually unanimously do so claiming that he’s a “big game quarterback” and point to his 2 super bowl wins and his 10-3 post season record. I counter that that record is greatly inflated by the overall strength of his team and back that up by pointing out his career playoff stats SCREAM of mediocrity…

226-369 18td 16ints 5fumb 84rating

In 7 truly big games (AFC title games and Super Bowls) he has had only one game that would be characterized as “good”. By contrast he’s had at least 4 “bad” games and 2 average/mediocre games. He's had 2 good post season runs, and 3 awful ones. That doesn't say big game qb to me.

Here are the facts...

04 Postseason: 1Win-1Loss, 31-54 57.4%, 3td 5int 1fumb, 61.3 rating
05 Postseason: 4Win-0Loss, 58-93 62.3%, 7td 3int 0fumb, 101.7 rating
07 Postseason: 0Win-1Loss, 29-42 69.0%, 2td 3int 1fumb, 79.2 rating
08 Postseason: 3Win-0Loss, 54-89 60.7%, 3td 1int 0fumb, 91.6 rating
10 Postseason: 2Win-1Loss, 54-91 59.3%, 4td 4int 3fumb, 76.4 rating

At BEST he's an inconsistent postseason QB.

I'd argue that the Steelers are 10-3 in playoff games DESPITE Ben as opposed to because of him.
 
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DuffMan said:
*Sigh* I'm not using QB rating alone to say anything and I'm not cherry picking stats. I'm saying looking at the big picture and his whole body of work Ben is an average NFL QB.

The people that disagree with me virtually unanimously do so claiming that he’s a “big game quarterbackâ€￾ and point to his 2 super bowl wins and his 10-3 post season record. I counter that that record is greatly inflated by the overall strength of his team and back that up by pointing out his career playoff stats SCREAM of mediocrity…

226-369 18td 16ints 5fumb 84rating

In 7 truly big games (AFC title games and Super Bowls) he has had only one game that would be characterized as “goodâ€￾. By contrast he’s had at least 4 “badâ€￾ games and 2 average/mediocre games. He's had 2 good post season runs, and 3 awful ones. That doesn't say big game qb to me.

Here are the facts...

04 Postseason: 1Win-1Loss, 31-54 57.4%, 3td 5int 1fumb, 61.3 rating
05 Postseason: 4Win-0Loss, 58-93 62.3%, 7td 3int 0fumb, 101.7 rating
07 Postseason: 0Win-1Loss, 29-42 69.0%, 2td 3int 1fumb, 79.2 rating
08 Postseason: 3Win-0Loss, 54-89 60.7%, 3td 1int 0fumb, 91.6 rating
10 Postseason: 2Win-1Loss, 54-91 59.3%, 4td 4int 3fumb, 76.4 rating

At BEST he's an inconsistent postseason QB.

I'd argue that the Steelers are 10-3 in playoff games DESPITE Ben as opposed to because of him.
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If you're going to compare, then you have to compare apples to apples.

You can't compare Ben's postseason numbers with other quarterback's regular season numbers. So if you want to use only conference championship and superbowl numbers for Ben, you have to do so with everyone else as well. For instance, Tony Romo has never even played in a conference championship game.

I don't have to point to his record. I can just point to his stats. The two superbowl rings are just icing.
 
Clark said:
If you're going to compare, then you have to compare apples to apples.

You can't compare Ben's postseason numbers with other quarterback's regular season numbers. So if you want to use only conference championship and superbowl numbers for Ben, you have to do so with everyone else as well. For instance, Tony Romo has never even played in a conference championship game.

I don't have to point to his record. I can just point to his stats. The two superbowl rings are just icing.
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If Tony Romo or Eli Manning played for the Steelers they'd have 3 rings each by now.

If Ben played for the Giants or Cowboys he'd be even more mediocre than he already is.
 
I couldn't get to page 5 of this thread because I was losing brain cells. Ben is not overrated at all. He is considered to be anywhere from 6-8 in the NFL, which is about where he is. He's 28 years old, been in 3 Super Bowls, won 2 Super Bowls, and has been in 3 AFC Title games. If he plays like he has for anothr 6-7 years he will be in the HOF. In those 6-7 years he probably will have another ring. People are talking about stats. Terry Bradshaw has no stats. Lynn Swann has no stats. You know what they have? Rings. You know what Big Ben has? Rings. That's right rings, as in plural. That right there will take him from borderline if he plays like this for 6-7 years into the HOF. For people saying Eli, Romo, Ryan, Vick, and Schaub are better are absolute idiots. Schaub can't even get to the play offs. Ben has just as many play off wins as the other guys combined.
 
I'm a Steeler fan and yes he is a franchise QB. His game isn't always sexy, its unorthodox, unconvential(sp?) and he will never be a prototype, but his unique skill set is such that it allows him to do stuff most other quarterbacks can't.

Duff and many others will always be critical of him because he doesn't put up great stats or fantasy numbers, thats fine, games like yesterday allows for the criticism.

It is so hard to find a franchise qb and Steelers have one. Has he benefited with being with the Steeler organization? Absolutely. Playing with a great defense? Yeah, probably. That said, given '04 draft again, minus the off the field issues I'd take Roethlisberger over Eli and Rivers everyday the week.
 
I had elite defenses for years, but did not win a championship til Ben showed up.




signed.


Bill Cowher
 
You can say that Ben's playoff numbers aren't that great and that's fine. But you also have to look at what he's gone against in those big games. Seattle's D was pretty solid the year they made the Super Bowl. Baltimore in 09 AFC Championship game had a great D. Jets, Raven, and Packers all had very good defenses. So yes when you look at the stats with those games the stats aren't gonna look good. But the fact is that for the most part Ben makes plays when you need them most and he's done it enough that you can't call it luck.
 
Big Ben is also one of three QB's (Rodgers and maybe P.Manning) that can perform well and win big games with a below average offensive line/running game.
 
Wish I would have been following this thread earlier because I would have chimed in quite a bit. Full agreement with the OP. Put this guy on average team, and guess what, he becomes average as well. Remember before this past season started we heard rumors that Pitt was looking to deal him. Why do you think that is? Because they know he's expendable. They went 3-1 with Dennis Dixon at the helm. Darn near 4-0. It matters very little who the Steelers QB is with the team they field. Ben's first SB, the Steelers won that game IN SPITE of Ben's play. He contributed next to nothing. And although I can't deny that was a great pass to Holmes that sealed SB XL, no one that isn't a Steelers fan can say he outquarterbacked Kurt Warner in that game.

As a side note, I hope D coordinators took note of Dom Capers' scheme last night. Clay Matthews played a QB spy on Ben on nearly every play taking away his ability to extend the play, forcing him to be a pocket passer. Result: 2 picks (one for 6), many missed throws, and very few scrambles to extend the play and find an open receiver.
 
Sorry bout that, hit the wrong button. I'll give this another try. Ben ranks 8th in all time QB rating with 92.5 rating. He's 5th in yards per attempt and 12th in completion percentage. He's also 4th in winning percentage winning 70.4% percent of his starts and 10-3 in the playoffs when playing against the leagues best in what has been the leagues better conference in 10 of those games. So stats are good.
Some will say he hides behind a great defense but few quarterbacks have ever done much winning without a good supporting cast. The difference between Aaron Rodgers man who hasn't won anything and Aaron Rodgers Super Bowl Champion was that this year his defense wouldn't have given up 50 points to anybody. Tom Brady has been the beneficiary of very good offensive lines as has Peyton Manning for the most part. The Niners under Joe Montana and Steve Young often had very good defenses as did the Cowboys with Troy Aikman.
 
List of QB's who have had multiple bad playoff games... Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Brett Favre, Dan Marino, John Elway, Jim Kelly, Matt Ryan, Steve Young, Joe Montana, Donovon McNabb. There are many more. Bad games happen.
 
thefizz said:
List of QB's who have had multiple bad playoff games... Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Brett Favre, Dan Marino, John Elway, Jim Kelly, Matt Ryan, Steve Young, Joe Montana, Donovon McNabb. There are many more. Bad games happen.
Click to expand...

Benz problem is they happen half the time.
 
Gotta take into account the competition he's played against in those games.
2005 Loss to New England came when nobody was beating New England in the playoffs.
2007 Played well in every game leading up to the Super Bowl. Played great against Denver in AFC Championship game. Played poorly against Seattle but won anyway.
2008 Loss to Jacksonville he had a bad 2nd quarter but had a fantastic 4th quarter. Down 28-10 he lead the comeback and they were up 29-28 towards the end and lost due to a last second field goal. Not great but you have to give him credit.
2009 He was solid the whole way through. Won 2nd Super Bowl.
2011 Great comeback against one of the leagues best defenses in Baltimore. Played well against the defense that just shut out the Unanimous MVP Tom Brady the week before the next week. Had his team in position to take the win in the end.
If he leads a comeback, do you look at him differently? Sure he's had some bad games but he's also had some very good ones against top level competition. And with the exception of his rookie year against the New England dynasty his teams don't get blown out in the playoffs. His teams always have a chance and it's not always because the defense is holding teams to 10 points. The fact is with Roethlisburger you always have a fighting chance and that's all you can ask for.
 
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