Baylor...

What exactly is your point Gold? Are you saying that since rape happens on every campus that people can't be outraged over Baylors systemic cover up of rapes by football players to keep the football program on solid ground? One thing is not the other. Same goes with PSU, since child molestation happens everywhere, we as a culture can't be shocked when a public institution puts the interested of a football program over the good of children?
 
deanvogs said:
What exactly is your point Gold? Are you saying that since rape happens on every campus that people can't be outraged over Baylors systemic cover up of rapes by football players to keep the football program on solid ground? One thing is not the other. Same goes with PSU, since child molestation happens everywhere, we as a culture can't be shocked when a public institution puts the interested of a football program over the good of children?
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Not making that point at all. I don't buy the idea that this didn't occur or that this is a smear case w/o validity. My point is simple. It is much harder to fabricate something than to prove it. I doubt it's fabricated. It may have gray edges, but it's likely not a fabrication.
 
Iowa City and UI could do a better job protecting students,need lights on side streets and was told by tailgaters that most of the emergency phones on campus don't even work.
 
HawkGold said:
There are so many things that have been covered up that it's difficult not to think that. Often there is a lot of gray. People are tired of the smoothing over of things. That is why why have a Trump in the WH. Most everyone sat back in disbelief about PSU and the actual story ended up being worse than the initial and those at the top still tried to cover it up.

Your premise is wrong. It isn't that easy to scandalize someone. With all the scrutiny it just won't go away. When one looks at rape occurrence studies on campus' and child abuse statistics, it's actually just the opposite. So much goes unnoticed. The reason it goes unnoticed is directly related to how easy it is to discredit.
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I think it is possible that it is easy to scandalize someone (many never read past a headline these days, let alone bothering to fact-check), and that rape and child-abuse are grossly under-reported (which we know from studies of those abuses). Those 2 things don't seem mutually exclusive to me.
 
CP87 said:
I think it is possible that it is easy to scandalize someone (many never read past a headline these days, let alone bothering to fact-check), and that rape and child-abuse are grossly under-reported (which we know from studies of those abuses). Those 2 things don't seem mutually exclusive to me.
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Exclusive of each other? No. Much more difficult...yes
 
HawkGold said:
The message boards for Baylor are interesting. Lot's of denial. When I was in college gang rapes were common at frats. You'd hear about it, it just wasn't called rape them. Just a drunk girl who was easy. I imagine that MN, Louisville, and Baylor aren't isolated cases. Kind of ironic with Ken Starr being involved at Baylor.

Think things couldn't happen anywhere? Totally non transparent contracts, nepotism, rich booster making an indiot of himself and NOT being kicked out of a game.

No, couldn't happen just anywhere.
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I don't for a minute believe that Iowa will ever be in the same boat as Baylor. We don't cheat. We don't pay players. We don't offer them drugs, alcohol or girls. Our administration maybe maligned for poor contracts, but this is why we pay Kirk what we do. He can win games with integrity and churn out wholesome people from his program. I would never trade Baylor's football success for our pride or decency. More importantly NOONE in the University of Iowa administration would either. We value different things. Are we impervious to the outliers? No, of course not. You can't maintain an athletic department with hundreds of student athletes and never have isolated incidents. There is one major difference though. When we learn of behavior or tendencies for this behavior we cut all ties and turn our backs. There is no support network at Iowa for that kind of stuff. There are clear and consistent repercussions/punishment for your actions at Iowa. One needs look no further than DJK. Kirk has turned his back on him and the University will never honor his name or jersey. He will never be a honor captain. Even if his receiving records stand for decades. Iowa will never give him any recognition. All because of purely laughable offenses in comparison to Baylor. If you can't see the differences between Iowa and Baylor then you don't know shit about this University.
 
Adam said:
I don't for a minute believe that Iowa will ever be in the same boat as Baylor. We don't cheat. We don't pay players. We don't offer them drugs, alcohol or girls. Our administration maybe maligned for poor contracts, but this is why we pay Kirk what we do. He can win games with integrity and churn out wholesome people from his program. I would never trade Baylor's football success for our pride or decency. More importantly NOONE in the University of Iowa administration would either. We value different things. Are we impervious to the outliers? No, of course not. You can't maintain an athletic department with hundreds of student athletes and never have isolated incidents. There is one major difference though. When we learn of behavior or tendencies for this behavior we cut all ties and turn our backs. There is no support network at Iowa for that kind of stuff. There are clear and consistent repercussions/punishment for your actions at Iowa. One needs look no further than DJK. Kirk has turned his back on him and the University will never honor his name or jersey. He will never be a honor captain. Even if his receiving records stand for decades. Iowa will never give him any recognition. All because of purely laughable offenses in comparison to Baylor. If you can't see the differences between Iowa and Baylor then you don't know shit about this University.
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And you know these things how? A booster being an idiot on a televised game? Oh ya I forgot, he was escorted out and ties were cut. You are a fool if you believe most any public university is squeaky clean. Are you employed with Iowa to refer to yourself as we? You have information about this? What happened in 07 is laughable?
 
HawkGold said:
And you know these things how? A booster being an idiot on a televised game? Oh ya I forgot, he was escorted out and ties were cut. You are a fool if you believe most any public university is squeaky clean. Are you employed with Iowa to refer to yourself as we? You have information about this? What happened in 07 is laughable?
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I am an alum and season ticket holder. I attend I club events and care very deeply for the institution that enriched my life. So yes, I say "we". I am a small part of the many pieces that make up the great tapestry of Iowa's tradition.
Next point. Yes DJK's trumped up charge of "operating a drug house" was indeed laughable. The charges were subsequently dropped for lack of factual merit. The only thing DJK was guilty of was possession of marijuana and the poor choice to associate with the people he was living with. The same month that DJK was aressted, California was decriminilizing marijuana possession under an ounce to the status of a parking citation. Yet this incident cost DJK possible millions of dollars and more importantly his rightful glory as the best Iowa reciever ever. By the way the charges came in 2010 not 2007.
 
HawkGold said:
And you know these things how? A booster being an idiot on a televised game? Oh ya I forgot, he was escorted out and ties were cut. You are a fool if you believe most any public university is squeaky clean. Are you employed with Iowa to refer to yourself as we? You have information about this? What happened in 07 is laughable?
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WTF does this have to do with players raping people and administrators hiding it and paying for silence. Or coaches that encouraged it.
 
These debates are so awkward. I mean nobody in their right mind is going to defend Baylor and what's all gone on down there. Not just with what the students had been doing but that a lot of it was encouraged to be done and then covered up by all those in line to not only stop it from happening/punish them after the fact. But to actually encourage it and keep it under wraps from the coaches all the way up the food chain is so beyond apprehensible it pretty much blows my mind. The next time Iowa is accused of systematically trying to encourage that and then try and sweep it under the rug will be the first. What was going on there had been for years much like at PSU. It wasn't an isolated incident. It was several. I can't see Iowa having something as bad as either of those things going down. I just can't. Or most schools. It took several people in positions of power to systematically allow that. I wonder how many of those were just caught up in what was going on and were just trying to save their own ass. Not that they agreed with what was going on. Just through pure selfish reasons of not wanting to be considered the snitching whistle blower they kept quiet to keep their job and not make waves. Which to me is just as bad. It's a pretty good reflection of society I think that most are out to cover their own ass at whatever cost....
 
I don't like "look over there.." responses. I see enough of that BS in politics. Baylor and their systemic failure to protect victims of rape is the topic along with what they deserve as a result of their sins. References to whether or not Iowa has, or could have, or might have, or whatever, is simply a good example of stepping away from the actual incidents and speculating with no foundation.
 
It is easier for me to make sense of the PSU scandal happening. While sexual assault is not uncommon on a college campus, who would even think to be on the lookout for an assistant coach molesting young boys? So you see signs, but you say to yourself, "Nah, that can't be what's going on." I think this is one of the many reasons that child sexual abuse (and child abuse in general) is so grossly under-reported (less than 10% reported according to this Time article). Now once enough evidence piles up that you finally admit to yourself what is happening, you think, "Holy shit, I have allowed a child molester to do awful things right under my nose, and I did not do anything about it! What are people going to think of me?" So instead of doing the moral and appropriate thing, self-preservation sets in. Awful, but I can understand the thought process.

I think the Baylor thing is a little different. Everyone knows that sexual assault occurs on a college campus. If a coach has a player that gets linked to sexual assault, that coach's reputation will not be damaged as long as he takes the appropriate actions. So there is no fear of, "What will people think if they find out?" Instead, this is all about, "My football team can be more successful if I cover this up and my player does not get in trouble."

Lots of horrible things went down at both PSU and Baylor. I won't say one is worse than the other, but I think they are different in important ways.
 
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