Bama and LSU are so good because they oversign...

JonDMiller

JonDMiller

Publisher/Founder
that's one of the prevailing thoughts.

Here is what they have done as far as total signees in recent years and Rivals.com Class Ranking

2012: Bama 26 (1st) | LSU 22 (18th)
2011: Bama 22 (1st) | LSU 22 (6th)
2010: Bama 26 (5th) | LSU 29 (6th)
2009: Bama 27 (1st) | LSU 24 (2nd)

Whoa. Yes, there has been some oversigning but nothing outlandish for Bama. I think they are in the midst of a run that will be more impressive than USC's run last decade and just unreal in this era of 85 scholarships. LSU ain't too shabby, either.
 
I think they are so good because they get the best players in the country, and in Alabama's case, have the best coach in the country.

How about academic requirements for their scholarship athletes?
 
They really aren't oversigning much. You are going to have players leave, plus they have guys every year leave college early for the NFL.
 
Oversigning does help, no doubt about it.
However, Alabama has the best coach in the country and it's not even close. Even Urb and Hoke can't hold Saban's jock strap.
 
FML said:
Oversigning does help, no doubt about it.
However, Alabama has the best coach in the country and it's not even close. Even Urb and Hoke can't hold Saban's jock strap.
Click to expand...

Agree Saban is top 1%, but Urban's resume speaks for itself. He has 2 NC's and has not coached all that long. I think he will turn OSU into a monster. Don't think Hoke is even in the conversation at this point.
 
There is no doubt that they are winning as they have the most talent. However, if they took 3-4 less players per year, those players would be playing somewhere else making those teams that much better....trickle down. We have seen how much difference one or two players can make. I believe that was the idea and the reason for the scholarship limits in the first place. It may not make an overwhelming difference, but it would be nice if everyone played by the same rules.
 
And as I pointed out in my post about ISU's recruiting, you can't just go off of Rivals. Alabama according to rivals signed 26 guys in 2010. That's actually wrong, they signed 29. However, 11 of them had already enrolled at semester. Only 18 of them signed LOI's.

Alabama’s 2010 recruiting class | Capstone Report

Same deal in 2012 - TJ Yeldon was a Jan. enrollee, thus never signed an LOI.

It may be skirting the rules a bit. But it's not oversigning. Everybody that signed an LOI got a scholarship, and kids aren't getting screwed.
 
NeilDiamond said:
Agree Saban is top 1%, but Urban's resume speaks for itself. He has 2 NC's and has not coached all that long. I think he will turn OSU into a monster. Don't think Hoke is even in the conversation at this point.
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Urb owned the SEC until Saban came back. Than he took his ball and went home. Ask Florida fans, they knew FL was not going to get over Saban anytime soon, even if Urb was still there.
 
Those numbers are low but whatever. 29 in 2010.
How many more signee's is that than say Iowa over that time? Or Ohio St, who signs less than Iowa?

I'd guess around 10 more compared to Iowa, maybe more and probably over 15 more than Ohio St.
That's 10-15, probably more, that get culled for better players. Or basically an entire starting group. LOL. In Ohio St's case that is nearly ONE FULL CLASS MORE. So for every 4 classes Ohio St brings in, Alabama brings in nearly 6. That's the point here. B1G programs give schollies to deserving walk-ons, the SEC takes 'ships away from non productive players and rinse and repeat.

This has been my point the entire time with this Jon, you are massively underestimating the effect this has cumulatively. I get that you don't care, but to think that it hasn't affected what we're seeing today in regards to the gap between the SEC and B1G is just ridiculous.

I would be willing to bet a testicle that if someone would ask Jim Delany off the record WHY there is a gap between the B1G and the SEC, oversigning would at least be part of his answer. And the B1G's failure to get any meaningful national legislation to regulate and limit oversigning will be looked upon as its fall from prominence.
 
people, please, please, please read this

Recruiting Budgets « Oversigning.com

it's not about the 25 number. Alabama signed 29 but only had 19 leave. that puts them over by 10. that's 10 kids who get "cut" from the team to make room for the new class.

again, it's not just the 29 number, it is how the are over budget for schollies, that is what is meant by oversigning, and why it isn't allowed in the Big 10.

end of rant. but please check out the linked website.
 
I saw that they had signed 136 over the last 5 years. I believe they signed 33 in 2008,and then slipped in a few more that do not show up on the lists. They push guys into medical retirements when they are not good enough.

Sorry, but when you add the oversigning to the high level talent they get every year,it is a huge edge over the non-SEC schools. Has Iowa ever signed 30+?
 
It's not simply the oversigning that is at issue here but forcing out kids that have been unproductive. ESPN's "Outside the Lines" series did a report on it, focusing on LSU, but 'Bama is at least as guilty of it.

This isn't technically cheating but it is unethical and that's part of why coaches like Ferentz have been so outspoken about it. When teams over sign it further encourages that practice, but a team doesn't have to oversign to unethically force kids from the program. Players who are working hard but are just not living up to expectations.

The SEC West aren't the only programs that oversign, of course, some of the worst violators are in the Big 12. In an report of oversigning.com in the years 2002-2010, Iowa State was third in the country in average oversigning. They average OVER 5 players per class more than Iowa. So, over the course of 4-5 years Iowa State has almost a full class more than Iowa does. As we know depth is critical, especially for non-brand name programs that can draw 4-5 stars at nearly every position. Ready to go players. So, that's a distinct advantage that ISU has enjoyed that Iowa has not.
 
The biggest problem is that everyone's angst and frustration right now is about 2-3 yrs too late.

Jim Delany waved the white flag.
The SEC won.
 
I said in another post, I think the biggest advantage LSU and Bama is they are elites in an other wise over-rated (top to bottom) conference. Because they play in the SEC, they get the added benefit of being able to lose an extra game which would eliminate any teams in any other conference from NC hopes.

When 5 SEC teams open the season ranked top 10, whether deservedly or not, it greatly influences the SOS and plays a major role all season long. They are "the almighty" in the "greatest conference on earth" and as a result they get that benefit. Was Michigan worthy of a top 10 rating absolutely not, however they opened with Bama so by putting them there it gives Bama the benefit of still being in the hunt in the event they lose as well as the "wow" factor when they blow out a top 10 team that doesn't belong there.
Bama and LSU are elite programs, and Arkansas, Georgia, and South Carolina are all very good programs as well, however lets not kid ourselves that the SEC greatness is that strong top to bottom. Further more, when schedule's are set up so that it's possible for a team like Georgia to miss out on playing those giants, but then ranking them so that they will be in the hunt is an absolutely joke.

Bama & LSU elite programs. SEC very good conference, but IMO not far and away better than everyone else top to bottom. Preseason top 10 including 5 SEC teams absolute joke.
 
JonDMiller said:
that's one of the prevailing thoughts.

Here is what they have done as far as total signees in recent years and Rivals.com Class Ranking

2012: Bama 26 (1st) | LSU 22 (18th)
2011: Bama 22 (1st) | LSU 22 (6th)
2010: Bama 26 (5th) | LSU 29 (6th)
2009: Bama 27 (1st) | LSU 24 (2nd)

Whoa. Yes, there has been some oversigning but nothing outlandish for Bama. I think they are in the midst of a run that will be more impressive than USC's run last decade and just unreal in this era of 85 scholarships. LSU ain't too shabby, either.
Click to expand...


According to Oversign.com, Bama had only 9 open slots in 2011,and they signed 22 guys, requiring that they lose 13 guys somehow. If you do not think that contributes to their talent edge on the roster,you are not trying very hard.
 
Between oversigning, graying shirting, medical red-shirting, medical hardships, lower academic standards and the like, everyone outside of the SEC knows why certain teams seem to have an advantage. Saban and Muschamp were asked out new academic standards and qualification would hurt their current players. They said badly, I want to say in was 50%+ that wouldn't have qualified with the new standards. I could be wrong and I'm not searching for it.
 
JonDMiller said:
that's one of the prevailing thoughts.

Here is what they have done as far as total signees in recent years and Rivals.com Class Ranking

2012: Bama 26 (1st) | LSU 22 (18th)
2011: Bama 22 (1st) | LSU 22 (6th)
2010: Bama 26 (5th) | LSU 29 (6th)
2009: Bama 27 (1st) | LSU 24 (2nd)

Whoa. Yes, there has been some oversigning but nothing outlandish for Bama. I think they are in the midst of a run that will be more impressive than USC's run last decade and just unreal in this era of 85 scholarships. LSU ain't too shabby, either.
Click to expand...
I have no sympathy for the players that get cut. They know the deal that there is that risk. They must be desparate to want to play there with no guarantees. But then ,they likely have no problems transferring to another school since they were good enough for Alabama to take a look see.
 
treychase said:
The biggest problem is that everyone's angst and frustration right now is about 2-3 yrs too late.

Jim Delany waved the white flag.
The SEC won.
Click to expand...

Unless Delany could cause a population shift from the Sun Belt states to the midwest, he was going to lose anyway. Look at where the vast majority of the top 100 recruits are from, the B10 was never going to be able to outrecruit the SEC in their own backyard.
 
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