Attrition is killing the Hawks

[DuffMan]

Goes to show that it's possible to win at Iowa, with the right coach. I don't expect to ever be an OSU or Oklahoma, but it drives me nuts when people dumb down our program.

Bravo Sir.That is exactly the point and the prime problem with the Iowa fanbase.Ho Hum, we're Iowa. 7-5 is just fine.

LOL this one of the biggest strawman arguments I've ever seen. Have you seen the boards in the last few days? There outrage everywhere over one loss let alone a 7-5 season. Further I don't know a sing hawk fan that thinks consistent 7-5 seasons are good enough.

I do know several fans that I'd consider rational that realize a few 7-5 seasons book ended by seasons that finish with top ten rankings is about as much as Iowa is capable of.

 

[Hawkeye11en1]

And four of the seven double-digit win seasons have come in the last nine seasons under Kirk Ferentz. Chew on that.

Keeping the players around, yes, that's been bad.

Chewing....and....yup, tastes pretty good. I'll have some more of that.

You people ripping on our staff are totally clueless.

 

[burky247]

I've made this post before but think it's relevant to bring it up again. I've had many former players tell me that they had little interaction with Ferentz once they arrived at Iowa. He treats the Iowa job like an NFL gig and has his assistants deal with interacting with his players. I'm never surprised when a player decides to leave the program just from what I've heard. I think this is a huge area that Ferentz needs to improve on.

 

[Xerxes]

Hayden Fry never coached 13 games in one season.

Good point, Hayden probably would have hit 10 wins in 1996 with an extra game.

However, take a closer look a Kirk's 4 double digit win seasons:

2002 11-2, Iowa was 11-1 going into the Orange Bowl after 12 total games, he didn't need a 13th game to hit double digit wins he actually got it after 11 games.

2003 10-3 Definitely a product of a 13 game season, however only 1 cupcake that season with AZST, ISU, & Miami (OH) in non-conference. Also no IND or NW. 13 games helped but this wasn't as schedule filled with directional schools

2004 10-2, only 11 regular season games + a bowl game, just like most of Fry's seasons.

2009 11-2, had a record of 10-2 after 12 games, once again Kirk didn't need a 13th game to hit double digit wins.

So only one of Kirk's double digit win seasons directly was helped by the 13 game season which Hayden rarely had.

On the flip side Iowa took advantage of the 13 game schedule in 2008 in getting to 9 wins.

 

[atxhawk]

Just for the heck of it I looked up Texas' recruiting classes for the past 4 years and how many are still left.

year Recruits roster pct
2008 20 14 70
2009 20 14 70
2010 25 24 96
2011 22 21 95.5
ttl 87 73 83.9

 

[jameskalina]

Thanks for pointing out the double-digit wins thing is largely a function of playing more games. When you only play 8 or 9, it's hard to get those double-digit winning seasons. It's easier when you play 10, 11, 12, 13 or 14. And don't worry-- I've already done the math...

Mr. Harty did a great job on that attrition story. It's shocking, really, that this is the first spotlight to be thrown on this point. Clearly it's a huge factor in success or lack of it.

On another issue, since Iowa cannot cover kickoffs, how about holding an open tryout to find somebody on campus who can kick the ball deep into or out of the end zone on a regular basis? That way you never have to cover a kick, you're less likely to suffer injuries on the play, and you have an edge in the field position battle. It's hard to believe that there isn't ONE person on the Iowa campus who can kick a football far enough to prevent returns. We wasted a scholarship on that Mullings kid from Australia by way of Ottumwa. Has he had a shot at kicking off? He can take all the time he wants doing that and nobody will ever block it. Great use of a scholarship...

Amen to that!

I read where Iowa gave up over 150 kickoff return yards to Iowa State Saturday. If true, that's over one and one half football fields and tremedously good field position to start ISU's offensive series!

 

[DuffMan]

I've made this post before but think it's relevant to bring it up again. I've had many former players tell me that they had little interaction with Ferentz once they arrived at Iowa. He treats the Iowa job like an NFL gig and has his assistants deal with interacting with his players. I'm never surprised when a player decides to leave the program just from what I've heard. I think this is a huge area that Ferentz needs to improve on.

That isn't at all unusual with D1 programs. Players spend 90% of their time with position coaches and it's with them that they form a bond. I don't think it matters whether the player bonds with the position coach or the head coach, as long as the staff as a whole communicates well with the team.

 

[TecmoBowl]

Amen to that!

I read where Iowa gave up over 150 kickoff return yards to Iowa State Saturday. If true, that's over one and one half football fields and tremedously good field position to start ISU's offensive series!

There was also a kickoff in the 4th that was short and bounced out of bounds.

 

[kicker22]

That isn't at all unusual with D1 programs. Players spend 90% of their time with position coaches and it's with them that they form a bond. I don't think it matters whether the player bonds with the position coach or the head coach, as long as the staff as a whole communicates well with the team.

+1

I've always been brought up with the mentality that one of the jobs of the assistants is to create that bond with the players so the coach doesn't necessarily have to. I haven't heard of too many programs at the college level or above in which the players have a better relationship with the head coach then they do with their position coach or assistant coaches.

 

[herky01]

First, I can't imagine Madison has too much more to offer than Iowa City, since Madison is about the same size as the Des Moines metro and has a similar climate as IC. So that leaves other reasons. I would guess BB is a lot more lenient as far as player personalities and behavior. Also, since we know Kirk sometimes thinks he's in the NFL, the atmosphere might be too business-like for some of the recruits. Or, it could be that BB is better at evaluating recruits and how they will fit into his system...

 

[ColumbusHawk]

Good point, Hayden probably would have hit 10 wins in 1996 with an extra game.

However, take a closer look a Kirk's 4 double digit win seasons:

2002 11-2, Iowa was 11-1 going into the Orange Bowl after 12 total games, he didn't need a 13th game to hit double digit wins he actually got it after 11 games.

2003 10-3 Definitely a product of a 13 game season, however only 1 cupcake that season with AZST, ISU, & Miami (OH) in non-conference. Also no IND or NW. 13 games helped but this wasn't as schedule filled with directional schools

2004 10-2, only 11 regular season games + a bowl game, just like most of Fry's seasons.

2009 11-2, had a record of 10-2 after 12 games, once again Kirk didn't need a 13th game to hit double digit wins.

So only one of Kirk's double digit win seasons directly was helped by the 13 game season which Hayden rarely had.

On the flip side Iowa took advantage of the 13 game schedule in 2008 in getting to 9 wins.

+1

People's memory is funny. In Hayden's twenty seasons, Iowa finished in the top ten only twice. Iowa finished ninth after the 1985 season & tenth after the 1991 season. Iowa also was embarrassed in all three Rose Bowls.

Except for Evy's last five-years, the eight-year stretch between 2002 & 2009 is the best in Iowa football history. No consecutive eight-year period under Hayden even comes close. We have become spoiled and tend to remember the good old days under Hayden as being better, but they weren't.

 

[CAARHawk]

Dude, did you say Madison wouldn't have more to offer than IC? Seriously?

I love IC, but Madison is just way more vibrant than IC. Madison is the Austin of the north.

IC could be a similar spot if the state didn't blow it by moving the capital.

Also, Madison is much closer to a real city than IC. Finally, UW is one of the biggest universities in the nation.

 

[storminspank]

Hayden Fry never coached 13 games in one season.

Insignificant.

 

[storminspank]

Good point, Hayden probably would have hit 10 wins in 1996 with an extra game.

However, take a closer look a Kirk's 4 double digit win seasons:

2002 11-2, Iowa was 11-1 going into the Orange Bowl after 12 total games, he didn't need a 13th game to hit double digit wins he actually got it after 11 games.

2003 10-3 Definitely a product of a 13 game season, however only 1 cupcake that season with AZST, ISU, & Miami (OH) in non-conference. Also no IND or NW. 13 games helped but this wasn't as schedule filled with directional schools

2004 10-2, only 11 regular season games + a bowl game, just like most of Fry's seasons.

2009 11-2, had a record of 10-2 after 12 games, once again Kirk didn't need a 13th game to hit double digit wins.

So only one of Kirk's double digit win seasons directly was helped by the 13 game season which Hayden rarely had.

On the flip side Iowa took advantage of the 13 game schedule in 2008 in getting to 9 wins.

Thanks for doing the work, so I didn't have to!

Seriously, nicely done.

 

[storminspank]

First, I can't imagine Madison has too much more to offer than Iowa City, since Madison is about the same size as the Des Moines metro and has a similar climate as IC. So that leaves other reasons. I would guess BB is a lot more lenient as far as player personalities and behavior. Also, since we know Kirk sometimes thinks he's in the NFL, the atmosphere might be too business-like for some of the recruits. Or, it could be that BB is better at evaluating recruits and how they will fit into his system...

Madison is a lot nicer than Iowa City. I hate typing that, but it's true.

 

[hawkinn3]

I don't blame the coaches for this. I think its the kids not willing to do the hard work to play. Why bust your *** to make special teams when you can go to some Div3 school and be the man like your were in high school? Lack of work ethic.

 

[BALDIES7980]

I don't blame the coaches for this. I think its the kids not willing to do the hard work to play. Why bust your *** to make special teams when you can go to some Div3 school and be the man like your were in high school? Lack of work ethic.

Also directly relates to the true number of recruits that really are going on to the next level.
My college athlete wanted to go to a Community College because there was no intention of getting paid to play later. It was good enough to get college paid for and have an opportunity to keep playing and not be too serious about it.
The vast majority of the kids think this way.

 

[DesMoinesHawki]

I've made this post before but think it's relevant to bring it up again. I've had many former players tell me that they had little interaction with Ferentz once they arrived at Iowa. He treats the Iowa job like an NFL gig and has his assistants deal with interacting with his players. I'm never surprised when a player decides to leave the program just from what I've heard. I think this is a huge area that Ferentz needs to improve on.

I bet all of those former players that are in the NFL right now aren't complaining too much about how much "Kirk time" they got ... To me, it's not much different than the working world ... My interactions are 99 percent with my immediate manager ... not the CEO ... And Kirk must be doing something okay because plenty of players have stuck around ... We don't know the reasons why players choose to leave. Maybe because they don't think they will see the playing field. Maybe they want to be closer to home ... All kinds of thoughts are going through your head when you are 18-21 ...

 

[Clifking]

Kirk runs a very tight ship, and a lot of players end up not willing or able to buy into that. There is another team that resembles this: the New England Patriots. Those that do buy in tend to have great success.

 

[storminspank]

Kirk runs a very tight ship, and a lot of players end up not willing or able to buy into that. There is another team that resembles this: the New England Patriots. Those that do buy in tend to have great success.

Are you saying Iowa should steal signals?