Anyone want more Alford talk???

You're going out of your way to nitpick and defend Alford, who has demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt to be a terrible person. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, but it just makes you look bad
 
BrueCrew3 said:
Lick was a bad coach and bad recruiter. I don't believe that has been recently disputed on this board. He was a bad hire all around. He couldn't build a program from scratch.

And that's exactly what Alford left on the shelf. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Zip. THAT'S why everyone is bashing Alford. He is SUPPOSED to be this great coach and recruiter because he's won all these championships in a mid-major conference and is now in charge of one of the storied programs ever in college basketball. But he couldn't do it at Iowa.

Lick's name doesn't have to be brought up because everyone pretty much agrees the downward spiral STARTED BY ALFORD continued under his watch.

Just my $.02 .. ..

GO HAWKS!!!
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You and I agree on this. The one thing though, I don't think Lickliter was a "bad" coach, he was the absolute wrong coach. Where he is today has no bearing on my opinion of him. Here is what I believe on Lickliter.

1. He never built a program
2. I think he believed Iowa was in a lot better shape than it was
3. He brought one of the best recruiters to Iowa and didn't allow him to do his job
4. The guy had no personality and was not the bridge Iowa needed to reconnect the fans
5. He was by no means a players coach and brought an offense that would not be successful in the Big Ten

Here is what happened, Alford relied on transfers a lot and even going back to his 2002 class he signed guys that never made it to campus (Josh Rhoades) or never finished. Ben Rand '03, Carlton Reed, Alex Thompson '04, Nathan Skinner, Tony Freeman '05, Josh Crawford, Tyler Smith, Jamie Vanderbeeken '06. In 2007 the Lickliter era began and then Freeman leaves, and the only guy to finish the 2007 class was Jarryd Cole. The rest is history.

So when I look at the 2004 - 2006 classes, 7 guys either didn't step on campus or left. The players that were left from those classes: Justin Johnson, Cyrus Tate, JR Angle and Seth Gorney and add Jeff Peterson, Jake Kelly and Jarryd Cole.

That is seven players that never contributed to Iowa basketball and 8, including Freeman, were left. Iowa didn't even have a full roster in Lickliter's first year.

Now I am not defending Lickliter because he didn't do his job by letting his staff do theirs. He also was in a hole from day one and not having built or even rebuilt a program he was doomed from the beginning. That is a failure on his end and the fact that he didn't relate well with the players or fans dug the hole deeper.

So for all those "great" players that Alford brought in his best four year players were Horner and Brunner without a doubt. For every Horner, there is a Carlton Reed and for every Greg Brunner there is a Josh Crawford. He did not bring in any foundation that would have solidified the Iowa program at hand off. The most impactful player the Alford ever brought on campus was Pierre Pierce, that is Alford's legacy and until Iowa is back to where they should be, this will continue to be brought up.

Alford destroyed the Iowa program by not bringing in and keeping quality freshman players. When programs rely on JUCO or transfers and there is a coaching change, there is immediate failure. It is not a surprise the Lickliter failed and he is not free of responsibility either, but if Iowa would have hired a guy in the mold of Fran after Alford, Matt Gatens and Eric May would have played in the NCAA tournament, well, Gatens for sure. There would have been one down year, maybe two, but not what it ended up being.
 
sportstalent said:
You and I agree on this. The one thing though, I don't think Lickliter was a "bad" coach, he was the absolute wrong coach. Where he is today has no bearing on my opinion of him. Here is what I believe on Lickliter.

1. He never built a program
2. I think he believed Iowa was in a lot better shape than it was
3. He brought one of the best recruiters to Iowa and didn't allow him to do his job
4. The guy had no personality and was not the bridge Iowa needed to reconnect the fans
5. He was by no means a players coach and brought an offense that would not be successful in the Big Ten

Here is what happened, Alford relied on transfers a lot and even going back to his 2002 class he signed guys that never made it to campus (Josh Rhoades) or never finished. Ben Rand '03, Carlton Reed, Alex Thompson '04, Nathan Skinner, Tony Freeman '05, Josh Crawford, Tyler Smith, Jamie Vanderbeeken '06. In 2007 the Lickliter era began and then Freeman leaves, and the only guy to finish the 2007 class was Jarryd Cole. The rest is history.

So when I look at the 2004 - 2006 classes, 7 guys either didn't step on campus or left. The players that were left from those classes: Justin Johnson, Cyrus Tate, JR Angle and Seth Gorney and add Jeff Peterson, Jake Kelly and Jarryd Cole.

That is seven players that never contributed to Iowa basketball and 8, including Freeman, were left. Iowa didn't even have a full roster in Lickliter's first year.

Now I am not defending Lickliter because he didn't do his job by letting his staff do theirs. He also was in a hole from day one and not having built or even rebuilt a program he was doomed from the beginning. That is a failure on his end and the fact that he didn't relate well with the players or fans dug the hole deeper.

So for all those "great" players that Alford brought in his best four year players were Horner and Brunner without a doubt. For every Horner, there is a Carlton Reed and for every Greg Brunner there is a Josh Crawford. He did not bring in any foundation that would have solidified the Iowa program at hand off. The most impactful player the Alford ever brought on campus was Pierre Pierce, that is Alford's legacy and until Iowa is back to where they should be, this will continue to be brought up.

Alford destroyed the Iowa program by not bringing in and keeping quality freshman players. When programs rely on JUCO or transfers and there is a coaching change, there is immediate failure. It is not a surprise the Lickliter failed and he is not free of responsibility either, but if Iowa would have hired a guy in the mold of Fran after Alford, Matt Gatens and Eric May would have played in the NCAA tournament, well, Gatens for sure. There would have been one down year, maybe two, but not what it ended up being.
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Well said. When I said Lick was a 'bad' coach that was probably going to far. You don't get to the D-I coaching ranks (even as an assistant) by being a bad coach. But he definitely was the wrong coach as you mentioned and his style was not good for the B1G.

Bottom line is the same. No one is disputing that Lick was a bad hire. The dispute is about his predecessor, which was the impetus for my post.

GO HAWKS!!!
 
atomicblue224 said:
Wow thats alot for his 8 years at helm!
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He may have gotten 10; I forgot Glenn Worley...that may have gotten him to double digits.
There were classes where no freshman made it through period, the PP class.
Others were about half, it really is amazing to look how many guys were on the roster as freshman that never made it through. Even JUCO's that didn't even make it through two years like Nick DeWitz.
 
Section136 said:
Im having a hard time believing that number as well 'talent.

Horner
Boyd
Brunner
Hansen
Reiner
Hendersen
Haluska (played his FR season at Iowa State - doesn't count)
Angle

That is 7 right there. ​FIFY

Unless Im missing something and guys like Boyd, Hendersen and Hansen didnt graduate.
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And one more correction for Section. UCLA HAS NO PRACTICE FACILITY! So the Fraud left Iowa for a lower tiered program in a mid-major conference, because Iowa had no practice facility. He then leaves NM for an upper tier program in an upper tier conference, that has no practice facility.
Makes sense to me. I suppose the Fraud doesn't need a practice facility after all, as long as the name on the jersey does the recruiting for him?
 
lightning1 said:
And one more correction for Section. UCLA HAS NO PRACTICE FACILITY! So the Fraud left Iowa for a lower tiered program in a mid-major conference, because Iowa had no practice facility. He then leaves NM for an upper tier program in an upper tier conference, that has no practice facility.
Makes sense to me. I suppose the Fraud doesn't need a practice facility after all, as long as the name on the jersey does the recruiting for him?
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I'm not familiar with Pauley Pavilion, but maybe it's a facility that can host more than one sport at a time. I know The Barn has a wrestling "arena", in addition to the basketball arena. The Gophers were hosting a wrestling meet at the same time as we were playing them in basketball. If Pauley is a similar venue, the practice facility may not be as big an issue as it was at Carver, where Volleyball and both basketball teams practiced/played, and then men's and women's gymnastics and wrestling used for competition.
 
sioux34 said:
Here I thought he was a guy Alf paid to stick up for him on the interwebs. I'm not sure which is worse.
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Believe it's Kory Alford = KDynamite
Who is now an official UCLA commit. Soon to be known as the Pauly Pavilion whipping boy. You gotta know that he isn't UCLA starting material just as you gotta know that the Fraud's ego won't allow himself to sit his own son.
If you thought John Lickliter had it rough? And he wasn't even on scholarship.
 
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lightning1 said:
Believe it's Kory Alford = KDynamite
Who is now an official UCLA commit. Soon to be known as the Pauly Pavilion whipping boy. You gotta know that he isn't UCLA starting material just as you gotta know that the Fraud's ego won't allow himself to sit his own son.
If you thought John Lickliter had it rough? And he wasn't even on scholarship.
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One thing I will give alford is he could play ball. And I am not for attacking a guys kid. And the kid can obviously play as he is one of the top scorers in the history of new mexico basketball. Not sure if he will be great but I would bet he will be better than you give him credit for.

Btw has anyone heard...I heard some rumblings that there was a rift between noodles and alford because alford's son was going to new mexico (before the coaching change) but alford didn't think noodle's son could play at that level.
 
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Foval21 said:
One thing I will give alford is he could play ball. And I am not for attacking a guys kid. And the kid can obviously play as he is one of the top scorers in the history of arizona basketball. Not sure if he will be great but I would bet he will be better than you give him credit for.

Btw has anyone heard...I heard some rumblings that there was a rift between noodles and alford because alford's son was going to new mexico (before the coaching change) but alford didn't think noodle's son could play at that level.
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Arizona, New Mexico, what's the difference?
 
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