another "prevent offense" thread.

mrolympia

mrolympia

Well-Known Member
yeah, yeah, as you all know I'm not KOK's biggest fan. However there is some merit to what I'm about to say at least in this post as opposed to previous year's ramblings.

1) Iowa has one back that they trust, they ran him 28 times vs. PSU

2) Iowa has the best skill guys since the 2002 team, anybody disagree?

3) Iowa can't count on special teams to be a game changer, like they were in 2002.

that leaves once solid, trustworthy unit, the defense which is better than the 2002 version due to a horrid pass D of 2002 which I think Iowa was in the bottom 5 in the nation in that category.

So, shaky special teams combined with run, run, 3rd and 12, punt whenever Iowa gets a 2 possession lead is putting a TON of pressure on the defense. What's so wrong with USING Iowa's offense to get a 3 or 4 possession lead and then going to the prevent offense in the 3rd or 4th quarter where it really won't matter what happens with special teams? The staff obviously doesn't trust either backup HB at this point in the year and ARob's style combined with his lack of size will not last the year if he gets near 30 carries every game. Bottom line, this Iowa team CAN win the big 10 outright. Will they playing the way they did against penn state, no. Not against OSU, not with the special teams and not running ARob 30x per game.

Iowa has the skill players this year as opposed to previous seasons, USE them. Special teams are the weak area, not offense. the defense can't, and should not have to, carry the entire load every game. If you make them put every game on their backs they will crumble under that burden eventually. It's only a matter of time before it happens if Iowa continues to play the prevent offense. Put teams AWAY, 14 point leads in the 2nd quarter will not cut it. This is a 30 ppg+/400+ ypg offense if allowed to be, use it! Continue to play this uber-conservative style and Iowa fans will miss out on another trip to Pasadena. That would be a crime.

end rant
 
mrolympia said:
yeah, yeah, as you all know I'm not KOK's biggest fan. However there is some merit to what I'm about to say at least in this post as opposed to previous year's ramblings.

1) Iowa has one back that they trust, they ran him 28 times vs. PSU

2) Iowa has the best skill guys since the 2002 team, anybody disagree?

3) Iowa can't count on special teams to be a game changer, like they were in 2002.

that leaves once solid, trustworthy unit, the defense which is better than the 2002 version due to a horrid pass D of 2002 which I think Iowa was in the bottom 5 in the nation in that category.

So, shaky special teams combined with run, run, 3rd and 12, punt whenever Iowa gets a 2 possession lead is putting a TON of pressure on the defense. What's so wrong with USING Iowa's offense to get a 3 or 4 possession lead and then going to the prevent offense in the 3rd or 4th quarter where it really won't matter what happens with special teams? The staff obviously doesn't trust either backup HB at this point in the year and ARob's style combined with his lack of size will not last the year if he gets near 30 carries every game. Bottom line, this Iowa team CAN win the big 10 outright. Will they playing the way they did against penn state, no. Not against OSU, not with the special teams and not running ARob 30x per game.

Iowa has the skill players this year as opposed to previous seasons, USE them. Special teams are the weak area, not offense. the defense can't, and should not have to, carry the entire load every game. If you make them put every game on their backs they will crumble under that burden eventually. It's only a matter of time before it happens if Iowa continues to play the prevent offense. Put teams AWAY, 14 point leads in the 2nd quarter will not cut it. This is a 30 ppg+/400+ ypg offense if allowed to be, use it! Continue to play this uber-conservative style and Iowa fans will miss out on another trip to Pasadena. That would be a crime.

end rant
Click to expand...

Iowa will not play the way they did against PSU when they play OSU.

14 point leads in the 2nd quarter will cut it when you have our defense against PSU's offense.

Why do people assume we will have the same exact offensive game plan every week? We play to our strengths vs our opponent's weaknesses. Nothing more, nothing less. This is Iowa football. Has been for years. No matter how much you ***** it won't change. GO HAWKS!
 
mrolympia said:
yeah, yeah, as you all know I'm not KOK's biggest fan. However there is some merit to what I'm about to say at least in this post as opposed to previous year's ramblings.

1) Iowa has one back that they trust, they ran him 28 times vs. PSU

2) Iowa has the best skill guys since the 2002 team, anybody disagree?

3) Iowa can't count on special teams to be a game changer, like they were in 2002.

that leaves once solid, trustworthy unit, the defense which is better than the 2002 version due to a horrid pass D of 2002 which I think Iowa was in the bottom 5 in the nation in that category.

So, shaky special teams combined with run, run, 3rd and 12, punt whenever Iowa gets a 2 possession lead is putting a TON of pressure on the defense. What's so wrong with USING Iowa's offense to get a 3 or 4 possession lead and then going to the prevent offense in the 3rd or 4th quarter where it really won't matter what happens with special teams? The staff obviously doesn't trust either backup HB at this point in the year and ARob's style combined with his lack of size will not last the year if he gets near 30 carries every game. Bottom line, this Iowa team CAN win the big 10 outright. Will they playing the way they did against penn state, no. Not against OSU, not with the special teams and not running ARob 30x per game.

Iowa has the skill players this year as opposed to previous seasons, USE them. Special teams are the weak area, not offense. the defense can't, and should not have to, carry the entire load every game. If you make them put every game on their backs they will crumble under that burden eventually. It's only a matter of time before it happens if Iowa continues to play the prevent offense. Put teams AWAY, 14 point leads in the 2nd quarter will not cut it. This is a 30 ppg+/400+ ypg offense if allowed to be, use it! Continue to play this uber-conservative style and Iowa fans will miss out on another trip to Pasadena. That would be a crime.

end rant
Click to expand...

For the record, I agree 100% with you.


But I think I can summarize the responses from those that don't:

1) You must not be a REAL fan
2) Have you even watched Hawkeye football in the last 10 years?
3) Go root for someone else if you want to complain
4) We didn't want to open the playbook for future opponents
5) We knew we had the game won; our offense can turn it on when it needs to
 
For the millionth time, O'Keefe is doing what Ferentz wants. If O'Keefe had it his way, the O would putting close to 500 yards a game on the board, but Ferentz is so terrified of the Rick Six or Rick getting hurt that he will not let KOK open the playbook in the second half if we have a decent lead. Personally, I think that given our kicking situation, we should wait until we have a 3TD lead in the 4th Q to go into the prevent offense because with a 2 TD lead we're only a bad turnover and a blown ST play away from a tie (which is really bad given our kicking situation).

Teams know what we are going to do with a lead and poor A-Rob was getting buried by 8 man fronts that PSU was throwing at us. KOK did call a couple of well-timed middle screens late, but I think he needs to rotate in a few more screens and occasional deep ball (a la that long one to DJK) to at least use the prevent offense to drain more clock and shift field position a little better late in the game. I don't care if they don't score, just give us at least 5 minute drives and push the opponent back at least 30 yards beyond where they were at the end of their last drive.

I think there are quite a few games on our schedule that will come down to the wire and be decided by a TD or less. Without a kicking game, we are going to lose some of those, I still think we finish 8-4 or 9-3 just because of the ST situation and one of those losses will be a game like Saturday's where we dominate the first half, then put it in park, then end up losing when we need a clutch FG.
 
pretty much the response people give you on this board if you so much as question the wisdom of any coach. for the record "those types" of people, you CAN actually be a fan of a team and still question the decisions.............it's called not shooting kool-aid straight into your veins.
 
Although I can't disagree with many of the OP points here, I think the Penn State game was a little different than many games Iowa has played recently. Penn State went on a time-consuming drive in the third quarter, and then turned the ball over to Iowa on the one-foot line. It is very difficult to open up the offense inside your own 10 yard line. Later, when Iowa's field position improved, Iowa started passing again.

I think the conversatism in the second half was a function of field position and a two-touchdown lead against a very weak offense.

You might see a different pattern in future games this year with the talent he has at wide receiver.
 
This topic has been hashed and re-hashed over the past two days, and many times in past seasons. Why re-open it?

Seriously.
 
hawkfan2679 said:
For the record, I agree 100% with you.


But I think I can summarize the responses from those that don't:

1) You must not be a REAL fan
2) Have you even watched Hawkeye football in the last 10 years?
3) Go root for someone else if you want to complain
4) We didn't want to open the playbook for future opponents
5) We knew we had the game won; our offense can turn it on when it needs to
Click to expand...

That's quite amusing
 
why didn't we open it up more? i've got a couple reasons

1. we didn't need to. we owned that game

2. might have been joepa's last trip to kinnick and the captain showed a little respect

3. we didn't need to. we owned that game

4. we didn't need to. we owned that game
 
whammer33024 said:
why didn't we open it up more? i've got a couple reasons

1. we didn't need to. we owned that game

2. might have been joepa's last trip to kinnick and the captain showed a little respect

3. we didn't need to. we owned that game

4. we didn't need to. we owned that game
Click to expand...

-or-

5. All of the above.
 
I think the reason some of us are pretty dismissive of these critiques is that they seem to rest on a flawed premise (as Deace would say). According to a lot of posters, Iowa deliberately stopped trying to score in the second half, satisfied with a 14-point lead.

That is not the game I watched. In the game I watched, Iowa's first second half possession started at the one-foot line. They ran the ball, as you would expect, but also completed a nice pass to McNutt to help flip field position for the punt.

On the next drive, they tried two runs and a pass and punted.

On the next drive, they mixed the run and the pass, tried a reverse, and contemplated going for a fourth down try on the Penn State 37:

Ferentz post-game: Our staff, you know, they talked to me, I was half tempted to go for it on that 4th and whatever it was down there, and the guys reminded me that maybe field position might be a good idea, so I appreciate that voice of reason, and Ryan helped. He made us look good. He dropped it right in there.

That doesn't sound like a guy content with a 14-point lead, does it? But how can you argue with the decision he ultimately made? From that point in the game, when Ferentz elected to punt instead of going for it, Penn State gained 8 yards on two drives (I'm not including the garbage time drive down 24-3.) So what are we complaining about?

Also, FWIW, Iowa's next drive featured one run and two pass attempts. Their only series without a pass attempt was the final one of the game, which started on their own 22 with 4:30 left and a 21-point lead.
 
whammer33024 said:
why didn't we open it up more? i've got a couple reasons

1. we didn't need to. we owned that game

2. might have been joepa's last trip to kinnick and the captain showed a little respect

3. we didn't need to. we owned that game

4. we didn't need to. we owned that game
Click to expand...

1, 3, and 4 are hindsight arrogance. 2 doesn't apply with such a small scoring difference, IMO.

We were about 3 inches and one defensive/special teams breakdown away from a tie game.
 
hawkfan2679 said:
We were about 3 inches and one defensive/special teams breakdown away from a tie game.
Click to expand...


ding, ding, ding!

you sir are correct.

rose bowl calibur team possibly could go 8-4 if the offense continues this sort of play calling or ARob gets injured due to carrying the ball 30x per game.
 
mrolympia said:
pretty much the response people give you on this board if you so much as question the wisdom of any coach. for the record "those types" of people, you CAN actually be a fan of a team and still question the decisions.............it's called not shooting kool-aid straight into your veins.
Click to expand...

It has nothing to do with kool-aid, or being a "real fan". The fact of the matter is some of us understand the situaion a little better than others. Some of us realize that this is the type of team KF wants us to be, and that type of team has given us the best 9 year stretch of Iowa football in school history. We understand that we aren't going to put up 500 yards and 40 points in every game, not because we aren't capable, but because that's not who we are, and we don't need to do that to win games and compete for B10 titles.

Some of us just "get it" more than others. That's why you don't see us railing on the OC after beating Penn State 24 to 3. That's why you don't see all of us walking around with rediculous signatures regarding our offensive ranks while we finish back to back years (soon the be 3 years) ranked in the top ten in the nation in the only ranking that really matters.

If you don't "get it" by now there really isn't anything we can do to help. I've long ago accepted there are two groups of fans...

1) Fans that understand the big picture of who we are, and who we want to be. We realize that this has given us the best 9 year run in school history, and we are smart enough to sit back in the sun and enjoy it. We are very very happy.

2) Fans that always look for someone or something to blame when things don't go right. Despite the fact we are on the best 9 year run in school history there is always something that just isn't good enough. They are generally miserable people, and ***** about the most rediculous things 5 (like our 2nd half offense after a 24-3 beat down of one best teams in the conference and a huge rival).

Count be as glad to be in group number one.

I know one thing for sure. History tells us we are unlikely to enjoy this type of success forever. I think it unwise to fail to soak in an enjoy every single second of it. 10 years from now, perhaps with a differnt coach leading the team, some people are going to look back and realize that 2002-20?? were the "good old days", and they are going to wish they could go back and relive them. I consider myself blessed that I'm able to recognize today for what it is and won't have those feelings, because I'm living it all up now while I can.
 
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olivecourt said:
I think the reason some of us are pretty dismissive of these critiques is that they seem to rest on a flawed premise (as Deace would say). According to a lot of posters, Iowa deliberately stopped trying to score in the second half, satisfied with a 14-point lead.

That is not the game I watched. In the game I watched, Iowa's first second half possession started at the one-foot line. They ran the ball, as you would expect, but also completed a nice pass to McNutt to help flip field position for the punt.

On the next drive, they tried two runs and a pass and punted.

On the next drive, they mixed the run and the pass, tried a reverse, and contemplated going for a fourth down try on the Penn State 37:

Ferentz post-game: Our staff, you know, they talked to me, I was half tempted to go for it on that 4th and whatever it was down there, and the guys reminded me that maybe field position might be a good idea, so I appreciate that voice of reason, and Ryan helped. He made us look good. He dropped it right in there.

That doesn't sound like a guy content with a 14-point lead, does it? But how can you argue with the decision he ultimately made? From that point in the game, when Ferentz elected to punt instead of going for it, Penn State gained 8 yards on two drives (I'm not including the garbage time drive down 24-3.) So what are we complaining about?

Also, FWIW, Iowa's next drive featured one run and two pass attempts. Their only series without a pass attempt was the final one of the game, which started on their own 22 with 4:30 left and a 21-point lead.
Click to expand...
This. The offense didn't execute particularly well in the 2nd half, but it wasn't that conservative.
 
hawkfan2679 said:
1, 3, and 4 are hindsight arrogance. 2 doesn't apply with such a small scoring difference, IMO.

We were about 3 inches and one defensive/special teams breakdown away from a tie game.
Click to expand...

call me arrogant i guess. i'm perfectly fine with that. we won 24-3. you make it sound like we won 24-23. would 41-3 have been more fun? not even a question there but i will take 24-3 all season long.

so who's to say we wouldn't have an offensive breakdown? as we all know, slingin dick has been known to deliver the occasion rick 6 ball, correct? so would you rather keep the ball on the ground with a running back that never fumbles and let a defense that rarely fails control the game...or fling the ball up and down the field and run the risk of the rick 6?

the gameplan worked exactly how the coaches planned it and we came away with a 3 TD win. i don't see how people are complaining about this
 
To the OP, Ohio State's not so special on special teams this season, I think statistically we actually have an slight edge there as strange as it may seem.

OSU Special Teams NCAA rankings

Punt Returns - 87th (Iowa 16th)
Kickoff Returns - 10th (Iowa 40th)
Punt Return Defense - 110th (Iowa 27th)
Kickoff Return Defense - 74th (Iowa 104th)
Punter - 69th (Iowa 20th)
 
has OSU given up 14 points via special teams in one game and let a lot of drives start at the 50 due to poor kick coverage?
 
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