Angel Reese

[dagdaj]

I'm done wasting any more energy on her.
I think she deserves some grace.
Yes. Absolutely some questionable behavior on court. But, I've seen her play just 4 games. 3 of those I can point to instances of dirty play or excessive taunting. Course in every video I see of "Angel Reese is a jerk", it's curated from JUST those 3 games...plus the wave on the foulout.

Upshot: yes, she can be a jerk. Also, probably just a competitor the rest of the time.

Social media absolutely amplifies that narrative.

She's 22. It is absolutely natural for her to see and believe in the value of social media followers. A social media following is probably the dream of 90% of kids 15-30. It's free money. You dont have to work and you get paid for being you. Problem is, you can't be you. You have to be a brand. It goes beyond curating. You need a persona. I don't believe she had a competent team helping her with this. The result is, the crown thing. Crowning yourself is only going to be a good look to a small percentage of people. Posting even mildly provocative pictures is going to draw sexualization. We can argue all day that it shouldn't but it's going to. There was just no sensible person there editing and advising.

She needed a Crash Davis. We all know that cliches like "I'm just happy to be here to help the ballclub in any way I can" is a cliche. And a lie. They aren't taught to say that because they think we want to hear it and it .makes them look good. They are taught to say that because it is safe and provides no opening. Don't give the dogs the bone.

I give her grace. Wish her well and hope she can find a little guidance that will improve both life satisfaction and her income.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

Angel is a thug "student" athlete. Thugs can be black or white or all shades of colors in between. She is also into herself clearly.....and she uses her image to get social media hits and likes. She wants to say she is being treated as a sex object....but that is how she puts herself out there on her social media pages. That last press conference was a narcissist that made everything about her and how poor Angel is being picked on...totally discounting the things she has done to gain the reputation she has.

Why is Angel a thug? It is her play and the things she says that comes out of her mouth. Lucky for her, genetics blessed her with some height and basketball skills. Because her work in the classroom is not going to get her by far in life. She is a great match for Kim Mulkey to use as a means to an end for what she needs.

Well, you went where I did not want to go, so I will just respond by saying: why use a label to describe her that a lot of folks in this country believe is a racist term? I get that you don't, but a lot of people do. So, why use it? Just to be incendiary? You could have said absolutely everything else you said about her conduct, her double standards, her hypocracy, and made your points. Instead, some people read your first line and just tuned out your well-considered criticisms.

Analogy: If you are arguing with your wife, you can do it two ways. You can point that she holds a double standard, wants you to read her mind, is passive aggressive when she doesn't get her way, and constantly needles you about small details that bother her. All those are fair points. But, if you start the conversation by calling her a selfish bitch, well, you lost the argument before it started.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Well, you went where I did not want to go, so I will just respond by saying: why use a label to describe her that a lot of folks in this country believe is a racist term? I get that you don't, but a lot of people do. So, why use it? Just to be incendiary? You could have said absolutely everything else you said about her conduct, her double standards, her hypocracy, and made your points. Instead, some people read your first line and just tuned out your well-considered criticisms.

Analogy: If you are arguing with your wife, you can do it two ways. You can point that she holds a double standard, wants you to read her mind, is passive aggressive when she doesn't get her way, and constantly needles you about small details that bother her. All those are fair points. But, if you start the conversation by calling her a selfish bitch, well, you lost the argument before it started.

There's no telling how many marriages you've just nailed to a T with that. And the overall analogy with the whole describing what Reese has done as what 'thugs' do. For those that have paid attention to the last yr or so that's a trigger word that'll lose you the argument to the masses. The English language is pretty vast and has other similar meaning words and ways of describing things that can get same point across.

 

[SwirlinLingerie]

I'm done wasting any more energy on her.
I think she deserves some grace.
Yes. Absolutely some questionable behavior on court. But, I've seen her play just 4 games. 3 of those I can point to instances of dirty play or excessive taunting. Course in every video I see of "Angel Reese is a jerk", it's curated from those 3 games...plus the wave on the foulout.

Upshot: yes, she can be a jerk. Also, probably just a competitor the rest of the time.

Social media absolutely amplifies that narrative.

She's 22. It is absolutely natural for her to see and believe in the value of social media followers. A social media following is probably the dream of 90% of kids 15-30. It's free money. You dont have to work and you get paid for being you. Problem is, you can't be you. You have to be a brand. It goes beyond curating. You need a persona. I don't believe she had a competent team helping her with this. The result is, the crown thing. Crowning yourself is only going to be a good look to a small percentage of people. Posting even mildly provocative pictures is going to draw sexualization. We can argue all day that it shouldn't but it's going to. There was just no sensible person there editing and advising.

She needed a Crash Davis. We all know that cliches like "I'm just happy to be here to help the ballclub in any way I can" is a cliche. And a lie. They aren't taught to say that because they think we want to hear it and it .makes them look good. They are taught to say that because it is safe and provides no opening. Don't give the dogs the bone.

I give her grace. Wish her well and hope she can find a little guidance that will improve both life satisfaction and her income.

I'm with you. Seems some Hawk fans have a borderline obsession with her.

Grace is the key word here. I can't imagine being in her position. Fame and money are nice, but there are downsides too. These college stars have too much to navigate too soon right now.

I hope she continues to grow and has a great WNBA career, and plays a role in the growth of the league.

The Hawkeyes are in the Final Four. We may never see that again in our lifetimes.

Let's soak up the last few hours of this incredible group of women playing together. One last dance. (Make it two, please).

 

[Will C]

Throwing elbows in people's faces is thuggish behavior and Angel has done a lot of it in her college career.
I would like to see people thrown out of the game for it. It would end pretty quickly if so. I can even see ejection for hitting someone's face accidently. I think bball would be much better off for it.

 

[Will C]

I'm with you. Seems some Hawk fans have a borderline obsession with her.

Grace is the key word here. I can't imagine being in her position. Fame and money are nice, but there are downsides too. These college stars have too much to navigate too soon right now.

I hope she continues to grow and has a great WNBA career, and plays a role in the growth of the league.

The Hawkeyes are in the Final Four. We may never see that again in our lifetimes.

Let's soak up the last few hours of this incredible group of women playing together. One last dance. (Make it two, please).

We have another possible generational player coming next year and we may already have one in Althoffer. The coaches need to keep their foot on the gas. Now to recruit a real big. Kudos to Addy O'Grady for her play vs. LSU by the way.

 

[Fryowa]

Who cares about Angel Reese?

 

[CP87]

It was wild that the media didn't want to call that spade a spade at all. They kept just calling it trash talking and downplaying it. But it was straight up taunting and fights have broken out over a hell of a lot less then that. There's a huge difference between trash talking at the FT line and as the game ends doing what she did. She stalked her around for like 20 plus seconds instead of celebrating with her teammates it was such an odd thing. In no way should that have been condoned and for folks to start thinking that should become some kind of new normal acceptable behavior.

I think the reason it was largely accepted by the media and some fans is because she was black. Clark couldn't have done that same thing back to her instead. There's no fn way just imagine how that'd have went over.

I think Reese is a sore winner yet she was gracious in defeat after this game. I'm just thankful for that. We didn't need any of that sort of lingering drama heading into this final 4. Beyond that glad all that drama that was Reese and Mulkey are in the rear view.

Agreed it wasn't a great look, and there were 2 camps that were dug in and not going to budge.

One was basing everything on how black female athletes are judged differently for their actions and covered differently by the media that white female athletes (true, but beside the point that this was an unsportsmanlike act).

The other camp was overreacting and pearl-clutching as if Reese just single-handedly destroyed morality forever.

It was really hard for anyone to have a rational discussion about the act itself because everyone was screaming past one another.

I also think the act is judged differently by white, protestant, midwestern culture than by urban black culture, and I always need to remind myself that just because a culture is different than mine, that doesn't make it wrong (that is a really tough idea to internalize).

 

[CP87]

We have another possible generational player coming next year and we may already have one in Althoffer. The coaches need to keep their foot on the gas. Now to recruit a real big. Kudos to Addy O'Grady for her play vs. LSU by the way.

Whoa, whoa, whoa...generational player means that on average, they come around once in a generation (every 20 - 30 years). Clark is a generational player, even an historic player. I would argue we actually had another generational player in Gustafson (a national player of the year, 2x conference player of the year) just a few years ago. We have had other excellent players (Logic, Disterhoft, Doyle, Czinano), but they are not generational talents.

Affolter has one more year, I think she could develop into an All-B1G player. But that is not generational, we have All-B1G players every year. I think Stuelke is actually the player with the highest ceiling who has the greatest chance of being 1st team All-B1G.

With Deal, who knows? No one would have guessed this was Clark's future. Could it happen 2x in a row with Deal? Possible, but a lot better chance that she is a Logic-level player (which would be outstanding, Logic was a beast) than a national POY.

 

[dagdaj]

I can't imagine being in her position. Fame and money are nice, but there are downsides too. These college stars have too much to navigate too soon right now.

I think this is only going to get worse. Simply because a large swathe of the public no longer sees them as collegiate athletes. And to some degree, I can't fully argue against that. It's a weird unbalanced middle ground. They get to operate like unrestricted free agents with no salary cap. The 'employers' aren't even the entity for whom the players are doing the work. Imagine if the Chicago Cubs player salaries were paid by a citizen lead non-profit corporation who could pay whatever they wanted, not bounded by a cap OR a league minimum, but the actual Cubs organization was responsible for all the actual baseball decisions regarding those players. I mean, that fracturing and dispersion is not going to be sustainable. The money is going to start looking for more influence at some point.

Think of the Proctor situation. 5 years ago the only explicable motivations were either "winning....or he just liked the Alabama program (players/coaches/etc) better." Fair enough. And that might absolutely still be the case. But, now there is the assumption (and likely reality) of a huge new layer of serious MONEY being involved. And money just is always going to cause flare ups. As a raging libertarian, I do not believe money is the root of all evil. But, money, who has it....where it came from....who spends it...how they spend it...is always going to cause some flare ups.

It's hard for fans to tolerate an MLB pitcher who's getting 30 million a year and is barely at .500 and has an ERA north of 5. Not a lot of difference for a QB who's getting $2 million and loses to Michigan in "The Game" two years in a row.

It's going to only get harder to define and honor that presumptive protective cocoon of "they're just college kids". I'm not saying that's "right" or the way it should be. But it's the way it's going to be for many people. There is simply no way to control that.

I just think, in the long run, the money is going to be comprehensively bad and will have negative effects on many individual athletes and the rest of collegiate sports that aren't football or basketball.

 

[CP87]

I think this is only going to get worse. Simply because a large swathe of the public no longer sees them as collegiate athletes. And to some degree, I can't fully argue against that. It's a weird unbalanced middle ground. They get to operate like unrestricted free agents with no salary cap. The 'employers' aren't even the entity for whom the players are doing the work. Imagine if the Chicago Cubs player salaries were paid by a citizen lead non-profit corporation who could pay whatever they wanted, not bounded by a cap OR a league minimum, but the actual Cubs organization was responsible for all the actual baseball decisions regarding that players. I mean, that fracturing and dispersion is not going to be sustainable. The money is going to start looking for more influence at some point.

Think of the Proctor situation. 5 years ago the only explicable motivations were either "winning....or he just liked the Alabama program (players/coaches/etc) better." Fair enough. And that might absolutely still be the case. But, now there is the assumption (and likely reality) of a huge new layer of serious MONEY being involved. And money just is always going to cause flare ups. As a raging libertarian, I do not believe money is the root of all evil. But, money, who has it....where it came from....who spends it...how they spend it...is always going to cause some flare ups.

It's hard for fans to tolerate an MLB pitcher who's getting 30 million a year and is barely at .500 and has an ERA north of 5. Not a lot of difference for a QB who's getting $2 million and loses to Michigan in "The Game" two years in a row.

It's going to only get harder to define and honor that presumptive protective cocoon of "they're just college kids". I'm not saying that's "right" or the way it should be. But it's the way it's going to be for many people. There is simply no way to control that.

I just think, in the long run, the money is going to be comprehensively bad and will have negative effects on many individual athletes and the rest of collegiate sports that aren't football or basketball.

Good points.

When a similar aged young adult goes into pro sports, the age is the same, but the environment is worlds apart.

In the pros, they are surrounded by other professionals (teammates, coaches, administrators), and they get loads of support. There is no concern about "will providing this support be an NCAA violation?" or "how much of our allowed weekly contact time can we spend on professional development"? Instead, they just pour in whatever resources are necessary to make their investment in this individual pay off.

In college, they are surrounded by 20-year old knuckleheads most of the time (I am conceding that I was also a knucklehead at age 20). Some athletes, like Clark, will have enough foresight and family support to set up an entire support team, but many will not. Universities are working hard to help guide athletes through NIL waters, but those are some murky waters. It is far too late now, but had the NCAA decided to move to a paid, professional model (affiliated with Universities) about 20 years ago, athletes and schools would be way better off.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

Who cares about Angel Reese?

Well, here we are, on a Iowa message board, and we are 3 pages deep, and "Angel Reese" is the header.....

 

[HuckFinn]

Who cares about Angel Reese?

There you go.

 

[Gander Hawk]

I think Angel would've been better off waiting a year. The WNBA is a small league with very few spots to go around. Gustafson was national player of the year and got cut. She seems pretty limited offensively and won't standout as much as an athlete in that league.

 

[Fryowa]

Well, here we are, on a Iowa message board, and we are 3 pages deep, and "Angel Reese" is the header.....

As a barrister I'm guessing you're well-versed in rhetorical questions.

 

[dagdaj]

Good points.

When a similar aged young adult goes into pro sports, the age is the same, but the environment is worlds apart.

In the pros, they are surrounded by other professionals (teammates, coaches, administrators), and they get loads of support. There is no concern about "will providing this support be an NCAA violation?" or "how much of our allowed weekly contact time can we spend on professional development"? Instead, they just pour in whatever resources are necessary to make their investment in this individual pay off.

In college, they are surrounded by 20-year old knuckleheads most of the time (I am conceding that I was also a knucklehead at age 20). Some athletes, like Clark, will have enough foresight and family support to set up an entire support team, but many will not. Universities are working hard to help guide athletes through NIL waters, but those are some murky waters. It is far too late now, but had the NCAA decided to move to a paid, professional model (affiliated with Universities) about 20 years ago, athletes and schools would be way better off.

I noted in another post, last season there were 10 players in the NFL who are Reese/Clark/etc's age or younger. There's 15 year olds who are on Premier League teams. There's a high school kid here in The Lou who plays for the new STL MLS team. A large swathe of future MLB players are drafted right out of high school. Fortunately, it looks like baseball still requires several years of development to actually reach the MLB.

I'm not going to lie. I've been a little bit of the "welp, they asked for it". They took the money. They're going to face additional scrutiny. I've always loved the Olympics collegiate sports because of the sense of purity of amateur athlets. I HATE the Olympics when they started letting professionals in. At least to the sports like baseball/hockey/basketball. Now, we're essentially saying there's no technical difference between LeBron James and the 16 year old Russian skater who's been exploited by her state and literally comes apart at the seems. If LeBron isn't playing basketball across town for a gold medal, do people maybe react different when Simone Biles in her young 20s, who has more maturity in her right thumb than James, exercises that maturity and pulls out in order to maintain her sense of self and mental health? Instead, large swathes of people demolished her for it. I still think there would have been a public reaction. But I have to believe it would be less if there was a sense that Olympic athletes are essentially kids who aren't paid very much. Same with collegiate athletics.

 

[PCHawk]

Soooooo, what's up with posting pictures being such a big deal?

 

[dagdaj]

Soooooo, what's up with posting pictures being such a big deal?

It's a big deal to me every time I see someone do it.
Cause I've tried to do it. And I can't figure out how to.
Which pisses me off. I'm a tech guy. Or was. I used to "work for the internet" as a systems guy for a high speed data network. I lived and breathed FreeBSD. I sat 10 feet from the internet. One of my former coworkers is a high level admin at Amazon. Another is a vice president at Facebook. Even after I left the tech world, I once fixed American Express' DNS for them and solved a seemingly intermittent problem they knew about for years, but could never pin down and fix. They sent me a $100 prepaid card. I knew my shit back in the day. Hell, I even wrote the code for a message board because I couldn't find a free one at the time that had the features I needed and didn't exclude the features I didn't want.

And yet, I have not been able to figure out how to post pictures, links, etc. like you all do.
And it horks me off and makes me feel old.

 

[Zstatman]

Gustafson was national player of the year and got cut. She seems pretty limited offensively and won't standout as much as an athlete in that league.

I saw a podcast where Megan said she'd been cut 4 time before finding a home with the Phoenix Mercury. Now she's signed a 2-year contract with the 2-time defending champ Las Vegas Aces.

AND, she has really upped her game and is shooting 3s regularly and efficiently. I saw a video just yesterday where her London Lions are in Istanbul, Turkey for a Euro tourney of some kind and she was popping 3s from the corner like she was Steph Curry.

I agree with the poster that said she was a generational player at Iowa, she laid the groundwork for CC and helped Lisa Bluder reach the pinnacle of college coaching.

 

[Gander Hawk]

I saw a podcast where Megan said she'd been cut 4 time before finding a home with the Phoenix Mercury. Now she's signed a 2-year contract with the 2-time defending champ Las Vegas Aces.

AND, she has really upped her game and is shooting 3s regularly and efficiently. I saw a video just yesterday where her London Lions are in Istanbul, Turkey for a Euro tourney of some kind and she was popping 3s from the corner like she was Steph Curry.

I agree with the poster that said she was a generational player at Iowa, she laid the groundwork for CC and helped Lisa Bluder reach the pinnacle of college coaching.

By limited offensively I meant Reese. She can only score consistently from inside 6 feet from what I can tell.