A Fran Weakness Is Rearing It's Head Again

Northside Hawk said:
It's plausible that Fran's refusal, certainly backed up by the administration, to recruit ultra athletic but potential bad character players has kept us from making rhe next step. That's a trait of Fran's I've always admired and respected. He always recruits high character players.

With one exception we've always recruited fairly high character players, even Raveling's 1984 and 85 hauls. Lute and Davis too.

The one exception? Bruce Pearl (naturally) who was Davis' lead recruiter in the late eighties. Ray Thompson, Brian Garner, and Kevin Smith were not high character guys. Acie Earl was borderline. Curtis Cuthpert got into off the court trouble before he even had a chance to practice with the team and subsequently departed. . James Moses had several off the court issues before he grew up. Even Chris Street once got suspended (open container in vehicle and underage).

All of this culminated in the Deon Thomas fiasco. Fortunately for Davis, Pearl would soon take a head coaching position at Southern Indiana. I don't think the administration was going to tolerate Pearl much longer and it could have meant Davis' scalp instead. I vividly remember an ESPN game in 1990 or 91 where Dick Vitale, at the time the biggest name in college basketball, media, said on the air that Davis would soon take the open Virginia position.
Click to expand...
Kevin Smith? What did he do. I always thought he was a stand up guy/player.
 
SCHawkeye2 said:
I think Iowa is usually one player short of an elite team. Usually one NBA talent and 7 supporting players,
We need one more NBA level talent every year to get over the hump.
Click to expand...

I've always said, ya gotta have a 3 headed monster in basketball. Ya have to have 3 legit scoring options for consistency. As you point out, can you imagine paring a Murry in their veteran years with Garza?

Iowa always seems to be missing one piece of the puzzle for the team. They have a great building block with Freeman. I hope he stays but he needs a couple more around him. Harding will feed him but Harding needs to get his outside shot more consistent. I think he can as he progresses and think he's going to be pretty good his last years. I hope they stay, especially is Fran does choose to leave.
 
MelroseHawkins said:
As you point out, can you imagine paring a Murry in their veteran years with Garza?
Click to expand...

It wouldn't have mattered because we still didn't have a back court and would have lost at the same point in the tournament no matter what. It's been like 20 years bince we had a guard worthy of a decent NCAA run but that guy got arrested.
 
RobHowe said:
Gotta start with the student section. That needs to be behind the visitors bench like yesterday. It will upset some donors that like those seats but too bad.

And put some damn vendors in the stands so people, especially all the way down on the bottom of the bowl, can get a drink or hotdog without having to climb all the way up to the top, wait in line and miss some of the game.

The contests during the timeouts suck. The halftime shows are mostly non-existent. Put more ticket packages together for games that are more difficult for most people to attend (late starts on weeknights)

I could go on.

Barta just deferred to the big donors and balked at change, especially with the students. Goetz sounds like she wants to change it up. Let's hope she does.
Click to expand...
This is wild when one thinks about it. What a major mishap on the call when building that. Most arenas at least come in mid level and have a mid course area. I wonder if "The Pit" is similar to Carver?
 
Last edited:
NorthKCHawk said:
Businesses are always looking for reasonably priced ways to impress clients. Boxes are so much better than just buying 8 seats for the game. Its impressive, great view, private bathroom, bar, food, etc. They would sell.

I have great memories of Carver, but its stale, poorly located, and not set up for a modern fan experience.

I agree with Rob though that the student section is the linchpin. Fix that, casual fans will start to come back.

Look, Beth just needs to form a commission or hire a consultant to study the ideas and come up with recommendations. Show she cares and is doing something about it and use the commission as bad guys when you have to move some doners back a few rows.
Click to expand...

I just have a hard time believing that the majority of donors would balk or throw a fit if they announced a reconfiguration for the students. I would think most would be pretty open about it and shame on them if they can't put a student's experience before theirs. Actually, isn't that area where most visiting teams fans sit? Ok, so the visitor fans might have to change locations and I suppose that might move some donors, but oh well. There really isn't a bad seat in Carver mid section to the floor. Hell, when I go I sit at the top and have no problem.
 
MelroseHawkins said:
I just have a hard time believing that the majority of donors would balk or throw a fit if they announced a reconfiguration for the students. I would think most would be pretty open about it and shame on them if they can't put a student's experience before theirs. Actually, isn't that area where most visiting teams fans sit? Ok, so the visitor fans might have to change locations and I suppose that might move some donors, but oh well. There really isn't a bad seat in Carver mid section to the floor. Hell, when I go I sit at the top and have no problem.
Click to expand...
Offer them boxes or some other VIP viewing area where they can feel important and show off to their clients and friends. Personally, I hate being courtside. I prefer 20 rows back so I can see the whole game.

There are solutions here. As others have said, you just have to start with seeing what would bring the 20s year olds back to the building (or a different building, which is what they really need)
 
I also think that the dip we are seeing is bad timing. Iowa womens games are the hottest ticket in the country and Iowa men are rebuilding and don't have a Garza/Murray to sell this year. It is absolutely the case that WBB is siphoning fans from MBB. There is limited ticket money out there amongst the fans.

That said, the bad timing may not be the worst thing if it makes what we have all seen for a decade come into focus. The relationship between the fans and Carver Hawkeye arena for MBB needs a serious reset.
 
NorthKCHawk said:
Offer them boxes or some other VIP viewing area where they can feel important and show off to their clients and friends. Personally, I hate being courtside. I prefer 20 rows back so I can see the whole game.

There are solutions here. As others have said, you just have to start with seeing what would bring the 20s year olds back to the building (or a different building, which is what they really need)
Click to expand...
Your box seats idea is probably the idea that has the best chance of happening, IMO. Like with Kinnick, they figured out they can prob make more $$$$$ providing those even though they may lose seats.

They tried to have these designated areas for clients/donors at the top corners I think but they aren't designated plush boxes like you are thinking.
 
MelroseHawkins said:
This is wild when one thinks about it. What a major mishap on the call when building that. Most arenas at least come in mid level and have a mid course area. I wonder if "The Pit" is similar to Carver?
Click to expand...
Been to the Pitt, in Alburquerque for regional NCAA hoops, it rocks, they don't care about the structure, they have upgraded since the Valvano NC State title way back when. I read all of this thread and see Goetz and McCaffrey do the company line about, late start times, people won't drive from Des Moines or even Cedar Rapids, however no one wants to talk about the product on the court. I am not a clone troller here, please, however their fans drive from Des Moines and Cedar Rapids and beyond and Hilton does rock. Point being, if the product is good, people will buy it.
 
They have put some premium seating off the concourse in the north end.

Fans in those spots are waited on for food and bev and may have some other perks. The seats are not great. I usually don't see many people sitting in them, either.
 
RobHowe said:
They have put some premium seating off the concourse in the north end.

Fans in those spots are waited on for food and bev and may have some other perks. The seats are not great. I usually don't see many people sitting in them, either.
Click to expand...
Good for those people, special people, with a full billfold apparently. Miss the point here administrator, those people are not on their feet making noise, either too old or they will spill their caviar, this is college man, get the kids in to this with their fellow classmates who are playing the game just sayin.
 
How many season tickets were sold for men’s basketball for 2023-2024? CHA sold out for the women, right? Wrestling, too? Lots of competition among these events for bodies. Tough market. $$ and time are finite. Maybe those who are men’s season ticket holders kept them for their seniority going forward, while adding the women to watch Caitlin? Not time for both? Big impact on attendance for the men?

Student attendance: Move them courtside? Worth a try. Free admission, good. Fact: Kohl Center has end zone seats for students and they sell out.

Reduce overall seating capacity? Hmm.

Location of Arena: Doubt that will change. The whole sports complex is right together.

Therefore: Here is a real example. I park free at Hancher. 10 minute Cambus free ride directly to the 6 steps up to the East entry of CHA. Post game, 15 minutes back to Hancher. (Foot bridge to East campus right there) Also overpass from student union and Pentacrest area. Also a footbridge near a variety of student housing east of the river. I am just not sure location is the issue some assume to be a big problem. Thoughts?

Any examples of how TO dead times can improve? Halftime shows, like what? In short how can fan experience be improved?

Vendors in the stands. Hmm. I hope they don’t block my view. Already enough fans wandering around like they are lost.

Interesting discussion, for sure. I think Beth may move on this one.
RobHowe said:
They have put some premium seating off the concourse in the north end.

Fans in those spots are waited on for food and bev and may have some other perks. The seats are not great. I usually don't see many people sitting in them, either.
Click to expand...
You are right.
 
Last edited:
NorthKCHawk said:
I also think that the dip we are seeing is bad timing. Iowa womens games are the hottest ticket in the country and Iowa men are rebuilding and don't have a Garza/Murray to sell this year. It is absolutely the case that WBB is siphoning fans from MBB. There is limited ticket money out there amongst the fans.

That said, the bad timing may not be the worst thing if it makes what we have all seen for a decade come into focus. The relationship between the fans and Carver Hawkeye arena for MBB needs a serious reset.
Click to expand...
Excellent post!
 
I also think part of the issue is how far away the students sit from the actual court. Check it out next time you guys are there.

If it doesn't have the most, CHA has to be among the leaders for space between the court and the start of the stands in the B1G. The people in the north end are way back from the court. It's crazy. Meanwhile, I've sat in front of the Izzone. It gave me a headache. From my experience, I think the Iowa student section is among the least engaged in the conference.

I've been covering games in CHA since the '97-98 season and hardly anything has changed, literally. If anything, I think the fan experience has gotten worse. I mean Red Panda ain't been around for years.
 
Northside Hawk said:
Losing over 70% of them over an eight year sample size is a major issue. Go 50/50 in those games and you're two games better in the standings for every ten such games played. In a typical B1G season that can jump you half a dozen spots in the standings, improve conference tournament seeding, and improve NCAA seeding if not flat out put you in the NCAA'S. It's a big deal and its a coaching deal. How many times have you seen us come out of a huddle with the game on the line and look like we didn't have a clue what we were doing offense or defense? And how many times in the Connor era did it look like we did have a clue? How can people not see the difference?
Click to expand...
But like I said, the class with Gesell had an atrocious record in close games. Take away those 4 years and I'd be surprised if Fran wasn't close to 50/50 in all the other years combined.

Also, you talking about Connor changing things when he was there proves my point even more. Players win close games. If you want to make the argument that Fran hasn't recruited enough clutch players, I could get on board with that. But getting the most talented players you can get into the program is probably more important than looking for someone you think will be clutch.
 
MelroseHawkins said:
Kevin Smith? What did he do. I always thought he was a stand up guy/player.
Click to expand...
Kevin was lifting swag when employed at Merle Harmon's Fan Fair in the Old Capitol Mall. His supervisor was a gentleman named Jim Anderson who I worked with at OnMedia Advertising in Dubuque several years later (late 90's)

He also got into some academic trouble and didn't finish he career at Iowa (or anywhere else than I'm aware of). I think his grades were fine, it was more a matter of falling hopelessly behind in class work.

It was too bad. He was in Chris Street's class and that tragic loss already robbed us of one senior. Kevin was going to be the point guard leader on a team that lost Chris and the heavy graduation losses of Acie Earl, Val Barnes and others. We really could have used an experienced senior point guard.

Another Pearl recruit that didn't have the highest character was Chris Kingsbury. I believe Chris was Pearl's last Iowa recruit. By the time Chris verbally committed in the summer of 1992 before his high school senior year Bruce had already hightailed it out of town.
 
MelroseHawkins said:
Interesting. Anybody remember this?

www.upi.com

Four University of Iowa basketball players, including starters Roy... - UPI Archives

Four University of Iowa basketball players, including starters Roy Marble and Ed Horton, were named by a television station Thursday as players who had...
www.upi.com www.upi.com
Click to expand...
Snortin Eddie Horton

Not sure if much cocaine was involved, but Marijuana use was common in those 1987 and 88 Iowa teams. There were rumors about Kevin Boyle in the Lute era as well, and the steady decline of Boyle's game late in his junior year through his senior year did nothing to dispell those rumors.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Share this page

Top