'16 Recruiting Class Working Out Real Well for Hawkeyes

[HuckFinn]

Sorry, yes I was implying we played in the West division and went 4-5. We actually went 3-3 in the West division games last year, with our only wins coming against teams with losing records (OSU upset was B1G east game).

I actually defended this team and coaches this year because I thought we had a really good team which is a credit to the roster the coaches have built. Unfortuntaly Kirk’s style often allows inferior opponents an opportunity to beat us.

At a certain point 9-9 in the B1G last two years with Nebraska, Minnesota, Illinois, Maryland and Indiana accounting for 8 of the 9 wins ain’t going to cut it if we want to prove we are a quality football team.

Huh. I seem to recall many posters saying that "wins is the only stat that counts." So, I guess and average of 9 wins per year is all we need to be concerned with.

 

[Caddy]

They beat one team with a winning record. Congrats

Exactly right. This is called working out really well I guess lol. How Stanley is working out real well I'm not sure, same with Jackson. Fant, Hockenson, and Hooker are legit. So with this talent we go 5-4 in a shit division in a weak conference. What does that say about our almighty coaching staff? Keep spinning it though Rob.

 

[Stanzi]

Exactly right. This is called working out really well I guess lol. How Stanley is working out real well I'm not sure, same with Jackson. Fant, Hockenson, and Hooker are legit. So with this talent we go 5-4 in a shit division in a weak conference. What does that say about our almighty coaching staff? Keep spinning it though Rob.

Go back to Cyclone Fanatic you dipshit.

 

[Northside Hawk]

Go back to Cyclone Fanatic you dipshit.

He gives us credit for three playmakers.

In the preseason he said we had zero, so I see that as real progress.

He is slowly being won over. Flickers of reasoning protruding from his dark troll mind.

 

[Northside Hawk]

Exactly right. This is called working out really well I guess lol. How Stanley is working out real well I'm not sure, same with Jackson. Fant, Hockenson, and Hooker are legit. So with this talent we go 5-4 in a shit division in a weak conference. What does that say about our almighty coaching staff? Keep spinning it though Rob.

It should of no disappointment to you that we went 5-4 in a shit division in a weak conference. After all you were saying all summer that we had no playmakers.

 

[cincyhawk]

This is why I never get all worked up about our recruiting ranking like some do. We consistently coach up 2 and 3 star kids to a 4 or 5 star level. Hockenson was a 2 star white kid from Chariton and now he's a potential first round draft pick. I guarantee people were complaining about him when we signed him. 247 had our 2016 class as #47 yet we have at least 5 or 6 guys from that class who will be day one or two NFL draft picks.

Hockenson was a 2 star BECAUSE he's from Chariton. He was a two star because nobody knew he existed, not because he's a 2 star athlete. If he were from Indy or Florida, he'd be a 5 star.

That's how it works.

 

[Northside Hawk]

Hockenson was a 2 star BECAUSE he's from Chariton. He was a two star because nobody knew he existed, not because he's a 2 star athlete. If he were from Indy or Florida, he'd be a 5 star.

That's how it works.

It's too bad that football, because of it's violent nature and the physical toll it takes on the body, can't be played year round, or nine or ten months out of the year. If you had traveling teams like baseball has or AAU like basketball has perhaps football prospects like Hockensen would get more exposure. Sam Okey came from Cassville, Wisconsin, population 947. About one fifth the size of Chariton (which is also relatively close to Des Moines while Cassville may as well be the end of the earth). But Okey was able to prove his worth on the AAU circuit and compete against Jerry Stackhouse, Nazir Mohammed, etc., and became a five star prospect.
Hockensen, unless I'm missing something, had only footbal camps to prove his worth in the offseason on the gridiron.

 

[RobHowe]

Hockenson was a 2 star BECAUSE he's from Chariton. He was a two star because nobody knew he existed, not because he's a 2 star athlete. If he were from Indy or Florida, he'd be a 5 star.

That's how it works.

Oliver Martin, Amara Darboh, Ross Pierschbacher, AJ Derby and more have been highly regarded nationally recruited players from Iowa in the last decade. Other schools find talent in Iowa. They missed on Hockenson.

They also missed on another all-American this year, Amani Hooker. Iowa was his only Power 5 offer.

 

[GotTimDodge]

Absuloutely it counts. So does 2012. But Rob's original post didn't go back that far. If it did, that would have been a whole different argument. He noted a four season sample size and you tried to throw the best year out. This isn't figure skating and you cant throw out the highest and lowest.

Sigh.
Point is, him picking 2015 to start wasn't an accident. That year was an anomaly. The very definition of one. And it distorts reality in his favor.
I picked the last 3 years... why?
Ready for this?
Because the last 3 years more accurately represent KFs ENTIRE record here as a head coach.
Imagine that, trying to keep things accurate!

 

[Northside Hawk]

Sigh.
Point is, him picking 2015 to start wasn't an accident. That year was an anomaly. The very definition of one. And it distorts reality in his favor.
I picked the last 3 years... why?
Ready for this?
Because the last 3 years more accurately represent KFs ENTIRE record here as a head coach.
Imagine that, trying to keep things accurate!

I just posted that Kirk's teams finished tenth or higher in the final AP ranking five times, better than Fry, Alvarez or Dantonio.

Speaking of trying to keep things accurate.

But go ahead and cast aside 2015 as an anomaly. You might as well cast 25% of Kirk's career away as an anomaly as well.

Nobody is arguing the 15-12 conference record that last three years. Its mediocre and that's a fact. But go ahead with your selective reasoning.. I'm not going anywhere.

 

[GotTimDodge]

Me!?!? Selective reasoning?!? And starting at 2015 isn't? What the hell dude?
What the hell is wrong with some of you people?

KFs last 3 years are very similar to his career.

And 25% of anything can't be an anomaly. Now you're really being ridiculous.

And just stop with the Barry and Dantonio comparisons.
Those guys coached far less than KF, and in Barry's case did far more (3-0 in the Rose Bowl, 3 Big Ten championships).

 

[GesterHawk]

I only count p5 wins...so...1

So would you count a non-P5 loss?

 

[BVHawk95]

Me!?!? Selective reasoning?!? And starting at 2015 isn't? What the hell dude?
What the hell is wrong with some of you people?

KFs last 3 years are very similar to his career.

And 25% of anything can't be an anomaly. Now you're really being ridiculous.

Except that's exactly what you inferred by saying 2015 was an anomaly. 5 seasons (25%) of Kirk's tenure have ended in a top 10 finish. It's not the norm, but it's not an outlier when it happens a quarter of the time.

 

[SCHawkeye2]

Rather than debate anomalies one way or the other...lets consider the KF BIG career record.

91 wins
72 losses

Winning % ..558

Mean Wins/yr 4.55
Mean Losses/yr 3.60

Median Wins/yr 4.5
Median Losses/yr 4

This year is right in the middle of the 'expected' & 'average' performance.

 

[Northside Hawk]

Rather than debate anomalies one way or the other...lets consider the KF BIG career record.

91 wins
72 losses

Winning % ..558

Mean Wins/yr 4.55
Mean Losses/yr 3.60

Median Wins/yr 4.5
Median Losses/yr 4

This year is right in the middle of the 'expected' & 'average' performance.

Me!?!? Selective reasoning?!? And starting at 2015 isn't? What the hell dude?
What the hell is wrong with some of you people?

KFs last 3 years are very similar to his career.

And 25% of anything can't be an anomaly. Now you're really being ridiculous.

And just stop with the Barry and Dantonio comparisons.
Those guys coached far less than KF, and in Barry's case did far more (3-0 in the Rose Bowl, 3 Big Ten championships).

This argument is going in directions it doesn't need to go.

• Kirk's last three years ARE similiar to his conference career.
• He has been rewarded by a clueless AD at covenient times more than his performance warrants.

I disagree with none of this. I probably agree with 70% of what you're trying to say. But the big picture has to be taken in. Alvarez had some real hiccups in between those conference championships and (4-1) Rose Bowls.

Kirk and Barry comparisons are legitimate. Both took over downtrodden programs. Kirk's .599 compares well to Barry's .609. Barry has a decided edge in bowl games

I've made my point about 2015. And the other four top ten finishes. This is starting to go on the direction of the Unknown Badger argument where he said Hayden was universially vilified for running up scores while Blelema was simply playing third stringers. You only want to recognize mediocre Kirk and not Good Kirk that's your perogitive.

 

[Knight78]

Me!?!? Selective reasoning?!? And starting at 2015 isn't? What the hell dude?
What the hell is wrong with some of you people?

KFs last 3 years are very similar to his career.

And 25% of anything can't be an anomaly. Now you're really being ridiculous.

And just stop with the Barry and Dantonio comparisons.
Those guys coached far less than KF, and in Barry's case did far more (3-0 in the Rose Bowl, 3 Big Ten championships).

You just proved his point.

 

[dahlhawk]

Kittle's production at Iowa (or relative lack-thereof compared to current NFL production) was largely situational.

In his first year playing (2013 as RS freshman), he began to get some PT at the end of the season. He played in 3 games total, including as a 3rd TE vs. Ohio State, a game in which he recorded 1 reception. That is his only career reception vs. Ohio State, and the only game he ever played against them. I believe you are thinking of Jake Duzey, who had 6 for 138 and 1 TD in that game.

In his second season on the field, he played in the first 3 games, and then not a snap after. I assume he dealt with injuries.

In his 3rd season he broke out. He had 20 receptions for 290 yards and 6 TDs for the 2015 Hawkeyes. You could argue that he could have been used more heavily, but he was on a team that featured Matt Vandenberg (NFL potential before repeated foot injuries), Tevaun Smith (played in NFL), Henry Krieger Coble (played in NFL), Leshun Daniels (played in NFL), and Akrum Wadley and Jordan Canzieri (2 of the most productive backs of the KF-era). Kittle was tied for 4th on the team in receptions with Canzieri (behind MVB, Smith, and HKC). That was also a Greg Davis offense that used TEs differently than KOK or BF.

In his 4th season he struggled with injuries again. He had 22 receptions for 314 yards and 4 TDs, but he only played in 9 games. He missed the 1st game of the season, and he was pretty hobbled for the entire second half.

Talking out of my Arse, good catch! I got confused with Jake and Kittles. He was hurt a LOT. Thanks for checking me on this one.

 

[cincyhawk]

Oliver Martin, Amara Darboh, Ross Pierschbacher, AJ Derby and more have been highly regarded nationally recruited players from Iowa in the last decade. Other schools find talent in Iowa. They missed on Hockenson.

They also missed on another all-American this year, Amani Hooker. Iowa was his only Power 5 offer.

AJ Derby played for City High, which is in the top class of football. Martin, West. Darboh, Dowling. Pierschbacher Cedar Falls. Chariton is class 2A. Hooker is from Minnesota.

I'm not saying that Iowa players aren't talented, just that small-town kids don't get a lot of play in recruiting circles unless they have some coaching connection or a big time school like OSU or Bama recruits them.

 

[GotTimDodge]

Except that's exactly what you inferred by saying 2015 was an anomaly. 5 seasons (25%) of Kirk's tenure have ended in a top 10 finish. It's not the norm, but it's not an outlier when it happens a quarter of the time.

12-0 was the outlier.
Not top 10 finishes.
Pretty sure I was totally clear on that. Maybe not.

 

[GotTimDodge]

I disagree with none of this. I probably agree with 70% of what you're trying to say. But the big picture has to be taken in. Alvarez had some real hiccups in between those conference championships and (4-1) Rose Bowls.

I'm counting a whole TWO hiccups after his first Rose Bowl win until he retired.
Two seasons under .500.
That's a whole ONE more hiccup than KF has had.
Why would you even mention that?

I don't know about you, but I'd certainly rather have TWO under .500 seasons but with multiple Rose Bowl wins, than only ONE hiccup and zero Rose Bowl wins.

Nobody can hate on KF.
Yes, he's had some great seasons.
And the more I think about it, the more I don't want him to retire actually.
Not sure I like who's waiting in the wings to be next HC, or the AD who doesn't care.