Swoops

Not one person onstage said that this is her fourth year
They tiptoed around the issue but never stated otherwise
I believe the dudes were intimidated by the women not wanting to give Caitlin any praise
 
Iowa posted this on their twitter 2 hours ago. Not that this Swoops person will ever see it.
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The question I have to ask is this. She's one of the greatest players of all time and obviously still very involved in the sport. Is it even possible for someone like that to not follow the career of Clark enough to not know what she was saying was incorrect? Clark is everywhere. She's impossible for casual fans to not pay attention too, let alone someone like Swoops. You can argue that there is too much exposure of Clark if you wanted to. But somehow Swoops misses all of this exposure of Clark and thinks everything she said was true? I'm not buying it.

Unfortunately, there are only too options here. One is Swoops somehow lives under a rock when it comes to the the biggest story in the sport she covers, so she was simply wrong. And two is she was straight up lying to try to trick people into discounting Clark's accomplishments. I just can't think of a possible third option, or any way option one is possible.
 
She also threw shade on Angel Reese. I think it's envy. Look at where the game of women's basketball has gone. I don't believe there has been this much hype or viewership ever. Yet, the WNBA is still pretty stagnant.

I think some of it (too) is that "old guard" mentality of playing in a different era where they "walked uphill both ways to school."

The arguments are made on the men's side too in the NBA. Would Jordan be elite in today's game, or would one of the stars of today have success in the 1990's or 1980's?

At the end of the day, it comes off very cringy, but neither Reese nor Clark have played a minute in the WNBA. Guess we will see.
 
Caitlin probably has the least surrounding cast of any of the other scoring leaders. I love our Hawkeyes and the bench is getting better but if someone else isn't making some shots we cannot beat the top tier teams. We need about four threes from someone else. Caitlin is also very tough. She has weathered some tough hits.
 
Holy crap... Swoopes sure stepped in it over this. Nobody cares or is surprised by Gilbert Arenas being ignorant on it all but her?! She's as tapped into what's going on with womens hoops as anyone. At least she should be especially if she's going to be speaking out on such things.

So if she's pretending she doesn't then that's insulting as all get out and I refuse to believe that. Saying Clark is 25 and that she's in her 5th or 6th yr is beyond nuts. The whole shooting 40 times/gm thing is so obviously insane. What's ironic is Swoopes shot 21 times/gm to Clarks 19 for her career so there's that...

I look forward to the folks in the media roasting her for it.
 
HawkPowerlifter said:
She also threw shade on Angel Reese. I think it's envy. Look at where the game of women's basketball has gone. I don't believe there has been this much hype or viewership ever. Yet, the WNBA is still pretty stagnant.

I think some of it (too) is that "old guard" mentality of playing in a different era where they "walked uphill both ways to school."

The arguments are made on the men's side too in the NBA. Would Jordan be elite in today's game, or would one of the stars of today have success in the 1990's or 1980's?

At the end of the day, it comes off very cringy, but neither Reese nor Clark have played a minute in the WNBA. Guess we will see.
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I think there's some of that with her on this for sure.. The whole NIL thing and just the popularity of full arenas etc probably has her bent and that's easy to see. If I remember right Swoopes was throwing shade at Clark last spring during the tournament too. This wouldn't be half as big of a thing if this was just about her opinions of how they'll do in the WNBA. That's fine opinions are like assholes we all have one and she's certainly entitled to those.

What's got everyone stirred up is her throwing out how she doesn't respect Clark breaking Plums scoring record due to straight up lies. Clarks going to break it in way less games then she did. It's pretty wild the made up stuff she was saying I don't know if she was high as a kite and drunk as a skunk but that whole thing was wild.
 
In the article I read, I didn't catch the bit on the scoring record.
All I saw was the comments about there being a transition to the WNBA.
I mean, I would assume so. LeBron's first year he was eligible to play in the NBA was his worst year ever. Not that a 20 ppg average is in any way "bad". But, clearly a development transition curve. I'm also betting that a point guard requires the most in terms of transition. I mean, a totally fair statement. And, on top of that, she said that Clark's transition would be a lot shorter than others.

I didn't see anything about the scoring record. I don't understand how she'd not know the Covid year sitch.

I've wondered about "the record". Obviously, the 3 point thing has changed. And the 3 point line has also moved. I've wondered about the # of games potentially increasing. Do we bother with this? Or do we look at it like we do "home runs" where parks are different? Teams are different. Number of games played are different. Coaching trends change. And just go with the aggregate number?

In the end, it's all rather moot. Only one person on the list has a higher average ppg (28.4 to Clark's 28.1). Only one other player is within 2 ppg (26.7) of Clark's average. The rest are a full 2 points lower than Clark. Patricia Hoskins of Mississippi Valley State played 110 games for a total of 3122 points and an average of 15 rebounds per game. She's got a legitimate argument of being the record holder and worthy of more accolades than she gets. So does Clark at whatever she ends up with points (and assists).

I'd put Jackie Stiles, Lorri Bauman of Drake, and Elena Delle Donne all together right behind the other two.
 
dagdaj said:
In the article I read, I didn't catch the bit on the scoring record.
All I saw was the comments about there being a transition to the WNBA.
I mean, I would assume so. LeBron's first year he was eligible to play in the NBA was his worst year ever. Not that a 20 ppg average is in any way "bad". But, clearly a development transition curve. I'm also betting that a point guard requires the most in terms of transition. I mean, a totally fair statement. And, on top of that, she said that Clark's transition would be a lot shorter than others.

I didn't see anything about the scoring record. I don't understand how she'd not know the Covid year sitch.

I've wondered about "the record". Obviously, the 3 point thing has changed. And the 3 point line has also moved. I've wondered about the # of games potentially increasing. Do we bother with this? Or do we look at it like we do "home runs" where parks are different? Teams are different. Number of games played are different. Coaching trends change. And just go with the aggregate number?

In the end, it's all rather moot. Only one person on the list has a higher average ppg (28.4 to Clark's 28.1). Only one other player is within 2 ppg (26.7) of Clark's average. The rest are a full 2 points lower than Clark. Patricia Hoskins of Mississippi Valley State played 110 games for a total of 3122 points and an average of 15 rebounds per game. She's got a legitimate argument of being the record holder and worthy of more accolades than she gets. So does Clark at whatever she ends up with points (and assists).

I'd put Jackie Stiles, Lorri Bauman of Drake, and Elena Delle Donne all together right behind the other two.
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From what I have seen, I don't think most fans are upset at her transition comments. Those are 100% valid and reasonable points, and your points regarding comparing statistics across different eras are also reasonable. Comparing across generations will always generate debate but there really isn't a way around it.

What's drawing the ire here is Swoopes' completely ignorant comments about the legitimacy of Clark's accomplishments, and, in a more general sense, the tendency of many in media and/or sports to try to tear Caitlin down.
 
#1DieHardHawk said:
From what I have seen, I don't think most fans are upset at her transition comments. Those are 100% valid and reasonable points, and your points regarding comparing statistics across different eras are also reasonable. Comparing across generations will always generate debate but there really isn't a way around it.

What's drawing the ire here is Swoopes' completely ignorant comments about the legitimacy of Clark's accomplishments, and, in a more general sense, the tendency of many in media and/or sports to try to tear Caitlin down.
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Yah...I didn't see that part addressed in the article I read.

As a former member of "the media" (even sports media) I've continue to be an armchair intellectual about "the media", basically straight from the Marshall McLuhan school of media understanding.

I've tried to figure out where the media is on this. It's fascinating. I mean, last year was the clear breakout. ZERO negativity. 100% positivity. Now, you make the final four and win every award imaginable, it becomes a bit like the Chiefs taking over the top of the most 'hated' list in the NFL, surpassing New England. We've always been good at it as humans. And McLuhan would certainly agree that the internet's "Global Village" makes that easier.

I mean, the dude called it back in the 60s'

"The global village is not created by the motor car or even by the airplane; it’s created by instant electronic information movement. The global village is at once as wide as the planet and as small as a little town where everybody is maliciously engaged in poking his nose into everybody else’s business. The global village is a world in which you don’t necessarily have harmony; you have extreme concern with everybody else’s business and much involvement with everyone else’s life. It’s a sort of Ann Landers column writ large."
-Marshall McLuhan

Especially in sports media, you find the people who always take the contrarian path. It's easy. It gets the radio/TV version of "clicks". And you don't have to be 'good' or engaging in genuine ways. Now you see it in social media by the bucketful, of baiters. Clickbaiters. If I wanna get thousands of clicks and people replying all I have to do is post "Clark is Overrated/Clark flops/Clark is a whiner". You can do the same with the Chiefs, now. Or Tom Brady. Or any political person of choice. And you can make the monkeys dance and throw digital poo at each other. It's a great business model, if you have no soul, or talent.

I've seen that stuff in my social media. I've tried to get a sense if it's out there in the regular media or not. There's definitely a pang of it. But it's faint. Really faint. And really only measured by an attenuation of the acclaim, much of that I think because of some pretty significant third rails that came out during the final four. Not just race, but differing expectations about behavior between mens and womens athletes. Way safer and expedient for some in the media to attenuate their praise and admiration. Just to be on the safe side.

And I do think there's a sense that one slipup (an ill-advised text or awfully bad behavior on the court) could lead to a massive pile on. Lots of people ready to pounds. It's a lot of pressure for her, I'm sure. But, I don't worry for her. I'm getting the sense it doesn't get to her much. Because at the end of the day, she keeps scoring. And saying the right things. Doing the right things on the court and off the court. Because that's her. Who she is. Sure, she probably gets a lot of help to say the right things. But it's not so mcuh to say the right things. She's going to say them anyway. More that she just benefits from help in saying it in the best way.

She's quintessentially Iowan. I say that in a very positive way as a non-native Iowan who no longer lives in Iowa. Let me tell you, you don't want to be labelled quintessentially "Missourian". Or perhaps the worst....being "quintessentially Floridian". "Or Alabaman". There's maybe 5 states where you'd be ok with it. Iowa is one of them. Maybe at the top of the list.
 
PCHawk said:
The question I have to ask is this. She's one of the greatest players of all time and obviously still very involved in the sport. Is it even possible for someone like that to not follow the career of Clark enough to not know what she was saying was incorrect? Clark is everywhere. She's impossible for casual fans to not pay attention too, let alone someone like Swoops. You can argue that there is too much exposure of Clark if you wanted to. But somehow Swoops misses all of this exposure of Clark and thinks everything she said was true? I'm not buying it.

Unfortunately, there are only too options here. One is Swoops somehow lives under a rock when it comes to the the biggest story in the sport she covers, so she was simply wrong. And two is she was straight up lying to try to trick people into discounting Clark's accomplishments. I just can't think of a possible third option, or any way option one is possible.
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Let's be honest, many of them live in a bubble and it absolutely pizzes them off when a female athlete of white color has this much success, and even more when the rest of the country has fallen in luv with her and her story or career.

There, I said it.
 
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