Franklin vs. Farence

[Fryowa]

Was reading some articles about Franklin last night, and came across a stat about how he's the best coach in history who couldn't win big games.

After their Oregon loss, Franklin's record against top 10 teams is 4-21 which is a WP of .160. That got me wondering about How Kurt stacks up against that. Below is KF's year by year record against top ten teams, includes all conferences and bowl games. I'd say based on resources and recruiting power, he's better than J-Frank.

 

[CP87]

Thanks for putting in the work on that!

I don't love that 0-5 over the past 3 years. I think if you expand it to all ranked teams over recent years, it looks even worse.

 

[CP87]

KF at PSU would be an interesting alternate history.

Let's say PSU leaders had any sort of moral compass, and they gave Joe the boot after finding out about Sandusky's heinous crimes and Joe's willing ignorance in 2001. They hire an interim coach, perform a thorough investigation, and then conduct a legit search in 2002. Iowa is coming off an 11-2 season and Orange Bowl appearance, top-10 finish, and KF has Pennsylvania roots. You could definitely see KF at the top of their short-list.

How much success would he have had at PSU? How would his legacy be different?

 

[BigD]

Neither one has a lot to brag about.

It is painful to get hopes up during a season just to have them dashed as you lose the big games.

Kirk has been a steady consistent coach over the years. I am not sure fans can say he has been a disappointment, but more that fans have had unrealistic expectations which has lead to their frustrations.

I am Guilty as charged.

 

[Fryowa]

I am Guilty as charged.

I still believe it's time for Ferentz to hang it up, but I'm sorry...KF has done more with a given amount of talent and money than pretty much any coach out there past or present. Fans like you are what led to nebraska and Wisconsin being where they're at.

Look at the ranking of the past 15 years of total wins for each P5 team and see how far off Iowa is from the Floridas and Georgias and Tennessees and Oklahomas and Texases and Notre Dames, pal. You're damn lucky to have had KF in charge.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

I still believe it's time for Ferentz to hang it up, but I'm sorry...KF has done more with a given amount of talent and money than pretty much any coach out there past or present. Fans like you are what led to nebraska and Wisconsin being where they're at.

Look at the ranking of the past 15 years of total wins for each P5 team and see how far off Iowa is from the Floridas and Georgias and Tennessees and Oklahomas and Texases and Notre Dames, pal. You're damn lucky to have had KF in charge.

In addition, what is so impressive is how KF always kept the locker room, even in adversity. Franklin lost his team, Fickel has lost or is losing his team. One of the players said in an interview, they don't have an identity.

KF has never really lost the team. Maybe the 2006 season is the closest. That is amazing after 25 yrs, IMO.

 

[Fryowa]

In addition, what is so impressive is how KF always kept the locker room, even in adversity. Franklin lost his team, Fickel has lost or is losing his team. One of the players said in an interview, they don't have an identity.

KF has never really lost the team. Maybe the 2006 season is the closest. That is amazing after 25 yrs, IMO.

I've watched all of Fickell's and Franklin's postgame pressers the past 3 weeks and Fickell definitely looks like he just got a Mike Tyson uppercut to the jaw. Totally lost. I recommend checking them out, he just comes out and says he has no idea what's going on or how to fix it. Franklin at least kept his ocmposure. Honestly, I thought Fickell would be the first to go but that job isn't near as attractive as PSU so I'd imagine they have to be way more cautious with hiring his replacement.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

I've watched all of Fickell's and Franklin's postgame pressers the past 3 weeks and Fickell definitely looks like he just got a Mike Tyson uppercut to the jaw. Totally lost. I recommend checking them out, he just comes out and says he has no idea what's going on or how to fix it. Franklin at least kept his ocmposure. Honestly, I thought Fickell would be the first to go but that job isn't near as attractive as PSU so I'd imagine they have to be way more cautious with hiring his replacement.

I did see the one after the Iowa loss. It surprised me as well. I thought he'd be more of a well spoken coach who always said the correct things. Now I'm not sure how the hell he was so successful at Cincinnati. He looks more like a MAC coach than a P4 coach, IMO. You can't just go up there lost and with no answers or even more importantly, A PLAN!

 

[dagdaj]

Franklin is 5-2 against Ferentz
Ferentz is 10-8 against PSU

So, you would have to say that Franklin is 'better'.
But, he's also looking for work. Assuming we've seen the worst of the Kirk Ferentz football since his first 2 seasons, there will most likely be a statue erected somewhere near Kinnick Stadium at some point.

I'm OK with all the above.

 

[Fryowa]

Franklin is 5-2 against Ferentz
Ferentz is 10-8 against PSU

So, you would have to say that Franklin is 'better'.
But, he's also looking for work. Assuming we've seen the worst of the Kirk Ferentz football since his first 2 seasons, there will most likely be a statue erected somewhere near Kinnick Stadium at some point.

I'm OK with all the above.

Iowa has less money, less resources, and a huge recruiting disadvantage.

You're comparing an apple to an orange saying Franklin is better when only looking at his record against Iowa. Also, part of that 10-8 record against Penn State was against Joe Ped.

Looking at their records in total against top 10 teams is actually valid because they come from the same pool of teams over time.

 

[BigD]

I still believe it's time for Ferentz to hang it up, but I'm sorry...KF has done more with a given amount of talent and money than pretty much any coach out there past or present. Fans like you are what led to nebraska and Wisconsin being where they're at.

Look at the ranking of the past 15 years of total wins for each P5 team and see how far off Iowa is from the Floridas and Georgias and Tennessees and Oklahomas and Texases and Notre Dames, pal. You're damn lucky to have had KF in charge.

"You're damn lucky to have had KF in charge." Going on 22 consecutive years without a conference title doesn't feel "damn lucky".

Two losses just this year to programs( Iowa State and Indiana) that have no business being in better playoff position than Iowa........... especially Indiana who is in the Big Ten. Iowa State is in a weaker conference and that plays apart of their opportunity at playoffs births. The only weaker division was the BIG TEN WEST. Many frustrated fans have said "the game" has passed Kirk by. Well at least Iowa State and Indiana have passed Kirk by.

If the Iowa administration were the Indiana administration, Indiana would still have their last coach sitting around with a ten year extension with pay raises built into each year. Indiana is evidence that the right hire can make a difference. Maybe Iowa should try to poach Indiana's head coach. He isn't making excuses (welp that's football, chomp, chomp) and is just getting things done.

 

[Fryowa]

"You're damn lucky to have had KF in charge." Going on 22 consecutive years without a conference title doesn't feel "damn lucky".

You just don’t get it, lol.

Go root for Ohio State. You’ll feel better.

 

[kicker22]

Franklin is 5-2 against Ferentz
Ferentz is 10-8 against PSU

So, you would have to say that Franklin is 'better'.
But, he's also looking for work. Assuming we've seen the worst of the Kirk Ferentz football since his first 2 seasons, there will most likely be a statue erected somewhere near Kinnick Stadium at some point.

I'm OK with all the above.

Even being 2-5 against Franklin I wouldn't say he's a better coach then Ferentz. Sure he wins the head to head battle, but that should be a no brainer. PSU has much larger appeal nationwide and recruits better then Iowa does. KF is 12-28 vs. top 10 teams and that's not something to brag about, but how many of those games do you think we were favored? Flip the script to PSU's 4-21 and I'd venture to say that playing 15 less opponents I'd bet they were still favored in more of those games then we were.

I'm not saying KF is a better coach, but I bet if you put KF at PSU with his talent he'd be much better then 4-21 in those games and if Franklin couldn't do better then 4-21 with his rosters at PSU I'd venture to say that his numbers would look better at Iowa then they did in Happy Valley. Some programs simply recruit for themselves and as a result it distorts the perception of how good a coach they are while they're at those programs. I'm thinking Franklin falls into that category.

 

[dagdaj]

Even being 2-5 against Franklin I wouldn't say he's a better coach then Ferentz. Sure he wins the head to head battle, but that should be a no brainer. PSU has much larger appeal nationwide and recruits better then Iowa does. KF is 12-28 vs. top 10 teams and that's not something to brag about, but how many of those games do you think we were favored? Flip the script to PSU's 4-21 and I'd venture to say that playing 15 less opponents I'd bet they were still favored in more of those games then we were.

I'm not saying KF is a better coach, but I bet if you put KF at PSU with his talent he'd be much better then 4-21 in those games and if Franklin couldn't do better then 4-21 with his rosters at PSU I'd venture to say that his numbers would look better at Iowa then they did in Happy Valley. Some programs simply recruit for themselves and as a result it distorts the perception of how good a coach they are while they're at those programs. I'm thinking Franklin falls into that category.

I mean, that's really my point. That's why 'better' was in air quotes.
Because it's the only theoretical way to easily quantifiably measure the two.


My actual point really, is that Ferentz is roughly .500 against PSU as a whole.
His record against Michigan was pretty good up until a few years ago.
Asking for more is impractical due to the reasons I could argue Ferentz is better.

If we try to get to apples-to-apples

On top of head to head, you'd have to do a whole math dive.
Post and prior to NIL
-money donated
-money spent by athletic department
-average NIL paid to player by position
-some value placed to historical wins and rankings
And my perennial favorite I like to talk about:
-The ratio of state population to D1/power 5 roster spots.

When teams (not in Florida, Texas, or South Bend) average up ~40% of in state players, I believe that is a huge factor. I think it falls right below money.

And it is why I believe Iowa punches far above it's weight class. And that Kirk Ferentz is historically exceptional at juggling all the things that work for him and the things that work against him. Certainly better than coaches with far more things working for them and fewer things working against them.