What'd be worse?

[Hawkfnntn]

Play out this hypothetical. Say KF does nothing after this season. BF is coming back to be OC. No major staff changes (we very well be losing Woods he's gotta be looking to climb the ladder but that's another topic) What would be worse for the program to have happen? The stadium being sold out/being mostly full of fans still but loudly booing their frustrations throughout the games in a significantly worse way then they currently have been and leaving at halftime. Or say fans stay home and we have a half empty Kinnick to see waving up to the kids week in and week out?

Both sounds terrible to me but one or the other will probably happen if BF is back... He won't get any benefit of the doubt going into week 1 next yr that's all I know.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

The absolute worst thing for a program is apathy. If the scenario you point out above happens and nothing is done, the fans will have checked out and have no confidence in KF or the program. KF will have lost the fans. This after two years at the bottom of FBS football in offense. They really can't afford to let that happen or take that chance, IMO. Kirk and Brian have 6 games to change the wave, and to me, that is still a heavy lift. Really only 5 games at OSU is going to be a complete shit show as expected.

If that does happen, it shows KF has a completely different agenda than caring about the program and team.

 

[dagdaj]

A lot is going to happen before then.
The rest of this season has to play out. We'll have to see how that happens. Not just talking wins/losses. Nobody is expecting a turnaround. I think we're all looking for a ray of hope.
There has to be some action immediately after the season. I don't know what.
There will be portal activity. I would assume some in, and some out. That all depends on the rest of the season and anything else they may or may not do after the season.
Also, there's the lawsuit/trial looking in the spring.

There's potential for mass havoc. Havoc that could take years to recover from. Possibly in this new era of football, may never be able to recover from.

I'd be pretty confident knowing that an even keel guy like Kirk Ferentz was walking this tightrope. A tightrope that's spanning a field of landmines being patrolled by robotic maneating crocodiles. He's pretty good at that.

Except it's HIS SON that is literally at the nexus of everything single problem creating every one of these circumstances.

 

[Fryowa]

Play out this hypothetical. Say KF does nothing after this season. BF is coming back to be OC. No major staff changes (we very well be losing Woods he's gotta be looking to climb the ladder but that's another topic) What would be worse for the program to have happen? The stadium being sold out/being mostly full of fans still but loudly booing their frustrations throughout the games in a significantly worse way then they currently have been and leaving at halftime. Or say fans stay home and we have a half empty Kinnick to see waving up to the kids week in and week out?

Both sounds terrible to me but one or the other will probably happen if BF is back... He won't get any benefit of the doubt going into week 1 next yr that's all I know.

I think no matter what happens the stands will be mostly full next year because people are going to want to see what happens with a brand new QB. If things go south right outta the gate you're going to see the fairweather fans and some of the salty season ticket holders leaving en masse (which is a BIG chunk of the total).

What REALLY would suck is winning at OSU. We absolutely have to lose that game and just rip the band aid off. Winning that game would give Brian ammo and make the people who don't know what they're talking about think maybe he's got what it takes.

I repeat...

We cannot win that goddamned game. No matter what. It cannot happen or that one single game will cement BF for longer than what we want to even think about.

 

[Fryowa]

A lot is going to happen before then.
The rest of this season has to play out. We'll have to see how that happens. Not just talking wins/losses. Nobody is expecting a turnaround. I think we're all looking for a ray of hope.
There has to be some action immediately after the season. I don't know what.
There will be portal activity. I would assume some in, and some out. That all depends on the rest of the season and anything else they may or may not do after the season.
Also, there's the lawsuit/trial looking in the spring.

There's potential for mass havoc. Havoc that could take years to recover from. Possibly in this new era of football, may never be able to recover from.

I'd be pretty confident knowing that an even keel guy like Kirk Ferentz was walking this tightrope. A tightrope that's spanning a field of landmines being patrolled by robotic maneating crocodiles. He's pretty good at that.

Except it's HIS SON that is literally at the nexus of everything single problem creating every one of these circumstances.

This is one of those rare times where I think things are at a potential tipping point, and bombing the rest of the year might be what has to happen. There's a 1% chance BF is gone after this year and the only way that 1% chance happens is if we lose 4-5 more games. You gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette.

 

[dagdaj]

The absolute worst thing for a program is apathy. If the scenario you point out above happens and nothing is done, the fans will have checked out and have no confidence in KF or the program. KF will have lost the fans. This after two years at the bottom of FBS football in offense. They really can't afford to let that happen or take that chance, IMO. Kirk and Brian have 6 games to change the wave, and to me, that is still a heavy lift. Really only 5 games at OSU is going to be a complete shit show as expected.

If that does happen, it shows KF has a completely different agenda than caring about the program and team.

Cogent.
Barring wholesale changes (dumping Kirk) immediately after the end of the season, which I don't see happening.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

I think no matter what happens the stands will be mostly full next year because people are going to want to see what happens with a brand new QB. If things go south right outta the gate you're going to see the fairweather fans and some of the salty season ticket holders leaving en masse (which is a BIG chunk of the total).

What REALLY would suck is winning at OSU. We absolutely have to lose that game and just rip the band aid off. Winning that game would give Brian ammo and make the people who don't know what they're talking about think maybe he's got what it takes.

I repeat...

We cannot win that goddamned game. No matter what. It cannot happen or that one single game will cement BF for longer than what we want to even think about.

Talk about something I hadn't considered.... I bet most of us hadn't either but holy shit talk about the ultimate curve ball. It doesn't matter what the circumstances are either. You're right if Iowa wins that game then I challenge anyone to make heads or tails of anything and KF will feel vindicated to do what he does. Granted it isn't happening. Unless they have to play in a typhoon or Stroud leaves 6 weeks early for the pros along with Harrison JR and the rest of his receiving corp Iowa isn't wining that game.

 

[Fryowa]

Talk about something I hadn't considered.... I bet most of us hadn't either but holy shit talk about the ultimate curve ball. It doesn't matter what the circumstances are either. You're right if Iowa wins that game then I challenge anyone to make heads or tails of anything and KF will feel vindicated to do what he does. Granted it isn't happening. Unless they have to play in a typhoon or Stroud leaves 6 weeks early for the pros along with Harrison JR and the rest of his receiving corp Iowa isn't wining that game.

That game needs to be like 13-0 OSU.

Keep our defense happy (kinda) and relevant, and let the narrative be that Brian Ferentz sucks so fucking bad that his offense couldn't beat an OSU team held to 13 points at home. Let the narrative be that the Hawks had the ultimate chance to beat Ryan Day in the belly of the B1G the mothership because the Hawks D held them to a TD and 2 field goals, but Brian sucks so fucking bad that he couldn't nut up and muster a single point. Let the shit rain down on him.

But whatever happens, do not win this game.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Talk about something I hadn't considered.... I bet most of us hadn't either but holy shit talk about the ultimate curve ball. It doesn't matter what the circumstances are either. You're right if Iowa wins that game then I challenge anyone to make heads or tails of anything and KF will feel vindicated to do what he does. Granted it isn't happening. Unless they have to play in a typhoon or Stroud leaves 6 weeks early for the pros along with Harrison JR and the rest of his receiving corp Iowa isn't wining that game.

I just don't see it this time because our O-line is such just shit. The only freaking chance they have to win is if KF just flung his arms up in the air and let Brian do his own thing and have fun calling the game, which may be similar to what they did when they beat OSU so bad in Kinnick.

I have stated after that, that it looked like they just threw the usual book out and let them play wild. It was so un-Iowa that game but was fun as hell to watch. That is the only chance Iowa has this game. Call random un-predictable plays and let the boys play.

Again, with that o-line, I just don't see a win though.

 

[dagdaj]

This is one of those rare times where I think things are at a potential tipping point, and bombing the rest of the year might be what has to happen. There's a 1% chance BF is gone after this year and the only way that 1% chance happens is if we lose 4-5 more games. You gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette.

I actually think there's an 85% chance Brain is not coaching next season.
I have to tread lightly or you'll get the ban hammer out on me.

Nothing to do at all with guilt/innocence/veracity. It's not germane to my point. My conjecture is entirely based on how the media operates and how universities operate.

 

[Fryowa]

I actually think there's an 85% chance Brain is not coaching next season.
I have to tread lightly or you'll get the ban hammer out on me.

Nothing to do at all with guilt/innocence/veracity. It's not germane to my point. My conjecture is entirely based on how the media operates and how universities operate.

Whether Brian is coaching next year will come down to one thing and one thing only. Whether Kirk Ferentz wants him to be.

Like Rob alluded to earlier today and what I've been trying to tell people for years, Barta has no say in the matter. He's Kirk's lap dog when it comes to football. I know it sucks, but that's one of the bad side effects of having a coach in office so long that he becomes untouchable. He's found boosters that'd jump on a grenade for him and unless he does something severely illegal or scandalous (which ain't gonna happen), he's gonna do what he's gonna do.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

I actually think there's an 85% chance Brain is not coaching next season.
I have to tread lightly or you'll get the ban hammer out on me.

Nothing to do at all with guilt/innocence/veracity. It's not germane to my point. My conjecture is entirely based on how the media operates and how universities operate.

I'm with ya. I don't see how Iowa can survive this and another bad season ranking near the last in college football. They really can't afford not to do something at this point. They are taking questions from the media about it and now Iowa is a national punchline talking about the offense. Fans all know. They absolutely are gunna have to do something. I think your 85% is spot on and may be just a bit low, IMO.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

I just don't see it this time because our O-line is such just shit. The only freaking chance they have to win is if KF just flung his arms up in the air and let Brian do his own thing and have fun calling the game, which may be similar to what they did when they beat OSU so bad in Kinnick.

I have stated after that, that it looked like they just threw the usual book out and let them play wild. It was so un-Iowa that game but was fun as hell to watch. That is the only chance Iowa has this game. Call random un-predictable plays and let the boys play.

Again, with out o-line, I just don't see a win though.

Yeah people kinda forget that last time it was tied at 17 in the 2nd q till Iowa scored a couple times right before halftime and then the 2nd half we went nuts. We were helped out by Bosa taking himself out of the game early and our Oline was 3000x better then this one is. Stanley orchestrated a perfect game pretty much. We played to our strengths which were Hockensen and Fant and OSU eventually half ass gave up once it got out of hand.

Petras isn't capable of playing the game Stanley did. He just isn't so it starts and stops there with those delusions of grandeur. If Iowa is winning this game it'll be a low scoring slobberknocker. Not a 50 something to 20 something kind of game.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Yeah people kinda forget that last time it was tied at 17 in the 2nd q till Iowa scored a couple times right before halftime and then the 2nd half we went nuts. We were helped out by Bosa taking himself out of the game early and our Oline was 3000x better then this one is. Stanley orchestrated a perfect game pretty much. We played to our strengths which were Hockensen and Fant and OSU eventually half ass gave up once it got out of hand.

Petras isn't capable of playing the game Stanley did. He just isn't so it starts and stops there with those delusions of grandeur. If Iowa is winning this game it'll be a low scoring slobberknocker. Not a 50 something to 20 something kind of game.

I just remember Stanley just playing so loose and looked like he was just having fun out there. He wasn't playing tight and didn't look to be coached so tight that game.

But, our O-line this year is not going to give us any kind of running game or pass protection for Petras. That is a problem.

 

[dagdaj]

Whether Brian is coaching next year will come down to one thing and one thing only. Whether Kirk Ferentz wants him to be.

Like Rob alluded to earlier today and what I've been trying to tell people for years, Barta has no say in the matter. He's Kirk's lap dog when it comes to football. I know it sucks, but that's one of the bad side effects of having a coach in office so long that he becomes untouchable. He's found boosters that'd jump on a grenade for him and unless he does something severely illegal or scandalous (which ain't gonna happen), he's gonna do what he's gonna do.

Oh, I hear ya.
But I'm pretty sure the Slate articles that come out in the spring are going to be very different than the one the other day. And they won't be the only ones writing them. And I say this with all sincerity, this is all regardless of any fact/fiction/guilt/innocence/veracity or other. None of that is germane when it comes to the media and perception.

And that will move the stories off the sportsball fields and on to the front page and it's the University (capital "U") that's now the one answering questions and taking heat. Regents. Presidents and such. And these won't be just "nepotism/the offense sucks/people are leaving at halftime stories". Even if the stories aren't true, they're going to be told. And repeated.

It's why I say Kirk has a serious tightrope to walk here. And the potential for implosion is huge.

There's ways out, for all parties involved. But they seem slim to me. Certainly slim for Brian.

 

[kicker22]

My two cents is that it has to be a combination of mounting losses and not selling tickets. KF's entire philosophy revolves around winning games with defense and special teams by managing the game and limiting turnovers. For the life of me, regardless of how bad our offense is rated, IMO the fact is that nothing will change until the defense simply can no longer shoulder the load.

The other side of it, and I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing is the fact that our defense and special teams have been put on a pedestal because of how inept our offense is. We have created a fanbase that worships a punter!!! Think about that. We celebrate when our punter comes on the field. Our offense, or lack there of, has completely flipped the script and created almost a cult like culture. So in my opinion the losses have to mount if change is going to happen otherwise the running joke continues and people will show up week in and week out to watch defense and special teams.

The only way I see change happening is a change in regime or an internal dumpster fire in which fans find some other way to spend their Saturday's and actually leave Kinnick and the football team behind to force change. Fortunately/unfortunately however you want to view it I'm not sure we have that kind of fan base.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

My two cents is that it has to be a combination of mounting losses and not selling tickets. KF's entire philosophy revolves around winning games with defense and special teams by managing the game and limiting turnovers. For the life of me, regardless of how bad our offense is rated, IMO the fact is that nothing will change until the defense simply can no longer shoulder the load.

The other side of it, and I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing is the fact that our defense and special teams have been put on a pedestal because of how inept our offense is. We have created a fanbase that worships a punter!!! Think about that. We celebrate when our punter comes on the field. Our offense, or lack there of, has completely flipped the script and created almost a cult like culture. So in my opinion the losses have to mount if change is going to happen otherwise the running joke continues and people will show up week in and week out to watch defense and special teams.

The only way I see change happening is a change in regime or an internal dumpster fire in which fans find some other way to spend their Saturday's and actually leave Kinnick and the football team behind to force change. Fortunately/unfortunately however you want to view it I'm not sure we have that kind of fan base.

...............or Iowa stops getting some higher caliber players and isn't as successful putting guys in the NFL.

That is the other situation that could be the demise of the program. KF and company bank on putting guys in the NFL and most likely is their main recruiting point out on the trail.

 

[dagdaj]

We have created a fanbase that worships a punter!!!

I don't disagree with your underlying statement in any way.
But Taylor really is an astoundingly good punter. He's not on the leading edge of all this transformative Aussie input. But, he's benefitting from several years now of experimentation that's now paying off in previously unimaginable ways.

It's impossible to put apples next to oranges. No way to compare metrics. But I wouldn't fight anyone who says he's the "best" player on the team. Nor would I argue anyone who said he is one of the "best" players to don a Hawkeye uniform in many many years. It's too bad he's just a punter. But to your point, at the moment under these conditions, it's fantastic that he's a punter.

 

[kicker22]

...............or Iowa stops getting some higher caliber players and isn't as successful putting guys in the NFL.

That is the other situation that could be the demise of the program. KF and company bank on putting guys in the NFL and most likely is their main recruiting point out on the trail.

But is it solely about football at this point. Like I said and we all know where I'm going with this. Gamedays are sacred in Iowa City from the stadium environment to the tailgating and our fanbase in general. I understand from a recruiting standpoint getting players into the NFL is huge, but has that really been a key to our success. I mean we've seen numerous threads indicating that there's year where despite having NFL talent on the line our OLine's have struggled. So I guess my question would be if we stop bringing in high caliber players and are no longer an NFL pipeline, does that impact the product enough to drive fans away and hurt revenue.

Like I said in the previous post, Tori Taylor has become one of the most popular players on the team and I'm a fan, don't get me wrong, but would our infatuation with a punter change if our offense wasn't a joke? I mean think about it our offense falters and we're cheering for the opportunity to give the ball back to the opponent while pinning them deep. I'm a fan, but I'm not sure punters should ever be fan favorites for the sole reason of I don't want to see them that often, let alone depend on him to win games.

 

[kicker22]

I don't disagree with your underlying statement in any way.
But Taylor really is an astoundingly good punter. He's not on the leading edge of all this transformative Aussie input. But, he's benefitting from several years now of experimentation that's now paying off in previously unimaginable ways.

It's impossible to put apples next to oranges. No way to compare metrics. But I wouldn't fight anyone who says he's the "best" player on the team. Nor would I argue anyone who said he is one of the "best" players to don a Hawkeye uniform in many many years. It's too bad he's just a punter. But to your point, at the moment under these conditions, it's fantastic that he's a punter.

Agreed. If we ever needed a punter to stand out now is the time.