Best 3pt shooting team in Fran Era?

[WinOneThisCentury]

Yeah, but we gave up 283 threes on defense last year and 289 in 2016.

Yes...but Fran has communicated that he has decided to play defense this coming year...so if everything holds true to form with Fran's track record...expect a 20% increase in threes made against us.

 

[NikeHawk21]

I didn't say it was their issue last season . I said they needed to shoot LESS 3s this season, to help improve their defense. And there is a whopping 6 attempts per game difference between the 227th place and the 27th place teams. 6 whole attempts.

6 posessions is quite a lot in a college basketball game. Close to 9% of the total possessions of an average team.

I do understand the logic behind your post, but there are many other ways we can improve our defense. Again, if we can get good looks at 3 from good 3pt shooters (which I believe we have), you take them.

 

[NikeHawk21]

Iowa had 672 3 pt. attempts last year, which averages out to little more than 20 attempts per game. All I am advocating for is getting that number into the 25 or 26 attempts per game range.

Should be easy to get close to that. Start with Weiskamp taking Wagner’s minutes. Garza started shooting them more frequently at the end of the year as well.

Again, it’s not meaningless chucking, but if you can get good three point shooters open looks, the 3pt shot can be a weapon for Iowa.

 

[Northside Hawk]

I agree that you have to have the athletes to play up tempo. When a team plays to fast against a superior athletic team, there are going to be holes in the game plan. I think Iowa is going to be more athletic this year though. Barring injuries they should be alright.

Iowa was 227th in the country in 3pt shots attempted per game last year. Jacking a bunch of threes was not this teams issue even if you want to make it that for the purposes of your argument. Sorry.

Iowa was however a decent 3pt shooting team in terms of percentage (53rd in the country). I expect the percentage to improve this year with the addition of Weiskamp and improvement from others.

If good shooters are getting good looks from three you take them, plain and simple.

We havent replaced the athleticism we lost a few years ago. That's why my pet peeve teams, Penn State and Nebraska, took us to the wood shed last year. We are a long way from even being in the middle of the pack in the conference in athleticism.

If I'm an opposing big ten coach and Iowa is ignoring two of their biggest strengths, Cook and Garza, in favor of the jacking up 25 or more threes, I'm jumping for joy. Those two have to get at least one touch every time down the floor before we even think of looking three. It may be out of step with the direction basketball is heading, but for now the paint to mid range our strength, based on what Fran has recruited

 

[NikeHawk21]

We havent replaced the athleticism we lost a few years ago. That's why my pet peeve teams, Penn State and Nebraska, took us to the wood shed last year. We are a long way from even being in the middle of the pack in the conference in athleticism.

If I'm an opposing big ten coach and Iowa is ignoring two of their biggest strengths, Cook and Garza, in favor of the jacking up 25 or more threes, I'm jumping for joy. Those two have to get at least one touch every time down the floor before we even think of looking three. It may be out of step with the direction basketball is heading, but for now the paint to mid range our strength, based on what Fran has recruited

I think you’re blowing that a little out of proportion. Again, we shot 20 or so last year. We are adding Weiskamp to the mix and losing Wagner. My guess is some guys shots are going to go down in favor of Joe. I’m not saying we need to get to 25 neccesarily but I do think that number will go up from 20.

Anyway, yes Cook and Garza are one of our strengths. But when you have guys like JBo, Moss, Dailey, and hopefully Weiskamp that can stroke it at 37% or higher, that’s quality offense.

 

[Northside Hawk]

I think you’re blowing that a little out of proportion. Again, we shot 20 or so last year. We are adding Weiskamp to the mix and losing Wagner. My guess is some guys shots are going to go down in favor of Joe. I’m not saying we need to get to 25 neccesarily but I do think that number will go up from 20.

Anyway, yes Cook and Garza are one of our strengths. But when you have guys like JBo, Moss, Dailey, and hopefully Weiskamp that can stroke it at 37% or higher, that’s quality offense.

The way the game is trending you may see 35 or 40 3 pt attampts pretty soon if a team has the proper personnel for it.

 

[tmess1989]

More 3s per game are needed. Iowa was 221st in 3PT attempts last year. Their 3PT % of 37.6% was good for 59th in the country. The 3PT shot is a more valuable shot. Why would you not play to your strenth? Iowa being 221st in the country in 3PT attempts actually means they are behind the times of where basketball is going. Teams don't win games 65 to 60 any more. They put points. Based on Iowa's 3PT % last year a 3pt shot is worth 1.125 points per shot. Based on their 2pt % a 2pt shot was worth 1.066 points per shot. It's math. Shoot the more valuable shot more often. Cook and Garza have not proven to be unstoppable scorers inside. Sure if either gets good posistion inside they score at a pretty good clip but burning 20 to 25 seconds off the clock to "pound it inside" is not efficient basketball. If Iowa can improve some on defense and not turn the ball over as much this team will be better. Shooting fewer more efficient shots is a better plan. Now of course they cant just shoot 3s to shoot them. They have to be at least somewhat open but oftentimes last year Moss and Dailey passed up open 3s. You have to take those shots. Those saying that we need to shoot less 3s or even the same amount as last need are living in the dark ages.

 

[Northside Hawk]

More 3s per game are needed. Iowa was 221st in 3PT attempts last year. Their 3PT % of 37.6% was good for 59th in the country. The 3PT shot is a more valuable shot. Why would you not play to your strenth? Iowa being 221st in the country in 3PT attempts actually means they are behind the times of where basketball is going. Teams don't win games 65 to 60 any more. They put points. Based on Iowa's 3PT % last year a 3pt shot is worth 1.125 points per shot. Based on their 2pt % a 2pt shot was worth 1.066 points per shot. It's math. Shoot the more valuable shot more often. Cook and Garza have not proven to be unstoppable scorers inside. Sure if either gets good posistion inside they score at a pretty good clip but burning 20 to 25 seconds off the clock to "pound it inside" is not efficient basketball. If Iowa can improve some on defense and not turn the ball over as much this team will be better. Shooting fewer more efficient shots is a better plan. Now of course they cant just shoot 3s to shoot them. They have to be at least somewhat open but oftentimes last year Moss and Dailey passed up open 3s. You have to take those shots. Those saying that we need to shoot less 3s or even the same amount as last need are living in the dark ages.

Once again, Fran has not constructed a roster suited for gunslinger mentality. Nor do they get back on defense very well. How many times in defensive transition did you see miscommunications, two defenders running to one player, and leaving another one wide open? I saw the dark ages of the late 80's when we had a team capable of playing the way you want them to play. Saw it first hand. You can go through all the math equations and cybermetrics and say a three point attempt worth more points than a two point attempt. But how much is a run-out worth-to the other team?

20 to 25 seconds of clock to pound it inside is not always aesthetically pleasing basketball, but once again if you don't have the athletes to get back on defense it's better then giving up 85-95 points a night. We're stuck with at least one more year of a roster full of long limbed forwards and post players designed to play trapping zones but vulnerable to quick penetration guards. It may be fall 2020 before the decks are totally cleared of players who can't defend them.

 

[lightning1]

More 3s per game are needed. Iowa was 221st in 3PT attempts last year. Their 3PT % of 37.6% was good for 59th in the country. The 3PT shot is a more valuable shot. Why would you not play to your strenth? Iowa being 221st in the country in 3PT attempts actually means they are behind the times of where basketball is going. Teams don't win games 65 to 60 any more. They put points. Based on Iowa's 3PT % last year a 3pt shot is worth 1.125 points per shot. Based on their 2pt % a 2pt shot was worth 1.066 points per shot. It's math. Shoot the more valuable shot more often. Cook and Garza have not proven to be unstoppable scorers inside. Sure if either gets good posistion inside they score at a pretty good clip but burning 20 to 25 seconds off the clock to "pound it inside" is not efficient basketball. If Iowa can improve some on defense and not turn the ball over as much this team will be better. Shooting fewer more efficient shots is a better plan. Now of course they cant just shoot 3s to shoot them. They have to be at least somewhat open but oftentimes last year Moss and Dailey passed up open 3s. You have to take those shots. Those saying that we need to shoot less 3s or even the same amount as last need are living in the dark ages.

Ok. Lets do the math. If you give Iowa 1.25 points and 6 more attempts (which puts them at #27 in D-1 in 3 pt shots attempted)....they STILL lose 9 BIG conference games! Now what? Our win/loss record has nothing to do with our offense. Even Fran acknowledges this. How can you look at our top 30 offensive efficiency ranking and not understand this?

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Iowa had 672 3 pt. attempts last year, which averages out to little more than 20 attempts per game. All I am advocating for is getting that number into the 25 or 26 attempts per game range.

By attempting that many more maybe they hit 1 to 3 more of them right? Some more or less just depending on the night. The difference between 3 and 9 more points a game even for a high scoring team like ourselves would be huge

 

[PCHawk]

My biggest fear this year is what our offense will look like if we're not down by 15 eight minutes into most games. We need an offense that's capable of consistently scoring against teams that actually care about stopping us almost as much as we need a better defense.

 

[PCHawk]

By attempting that many more maybe they hit 1 to 3 more of them right? Some more or less just depending on the night. The difference between 3 and 9 more points a game even for a high scoring team like ourselves would be huge

If we are attempting those extra 3s instead of turning it over it would be worth that many more points. If we are attempting them instead of 2s, it would be worth a little less. Last year's team being too lazy to get back is a dumb reason to not play to our strength on offense tho. Its smarter just to play to our strength and preach hustling back.

 

[PCHawk]

Once again, Fran has not constructed a roster suited for gunslinger mentality. Nor do they get back on defense very well. How many times in defensive transition did you see miscommunications, two defenders running to one player, and leaving another one wide open? I saw the dark ages of the late 80's when we had a team capable of playing the way you want them to play. Saw it first hand. You can go through all the math equations and cybermetrics and say a three point attempt worth more points than a two point attempt. But how much is a run-out worth-to the other team?

20 to 25 seconds of clock to pound it inside is not always aesthetically pleasing basketball, but once again if you don't have the athletes to get back on defense it's better then giving up 85-95 points a night. We're stuck with at least one more year of a roster full of long limbed forwards and post players designed to play trapping zones but vulnerable to quick penetration guards. It may be fall 2020 before the decks are totally cleared of players who can't defend them.

I agree we don't have the athletes to play at the speed Fran wants to. But that really doesn't have anything to do with shooting more 3s. You can take just as much time trying to get an open 3 as you can trying to get it inside. I can see the confusion from watching how easy iowa gives up open 3s, but most teams actually try to defend against it.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

If we are attempting those extra 3s instead of turning it over it would be worth that many more points. If we are attempting them instead of 2s, it would be worth a little less. Last year's team being too lazy to get back is a dumb reason to not play to our strength on offense tho. Its smarter just to play to our strength and preach hustling back.

Yes no doubt it's also tied to possessions and what would be happening instead. Subtracting from the 13 or so we averaged a game last yr to closer to 10 would be a great start

 

[N8theGr8]

We don't need to cover our weakness like a high school team does by shooting less or more. We have the talent to make them at a higher clip on the same number of shots. Made 3's don't hurt us. We won't have Baer out there forcing shots with a 30% average because Wieskamp and Dailey (aided by Connor taking minutes at the 1) give us two more options (although, I'd put my money on Baer returning to form). Even having them out there instead of Wagner will help because it forces a defender out to the perimeter. And the more spaced out the offense is, the more free the offense is and the higher the clip we will shoot it at both inside and out. We will make more as a team this year simply by not playing with spare and broken parts.

 

[NikeHawk21]

Once again, Fran has not constructed a roster suited for gunslinger mentality. Nor do they get back on defense very well. How many times in defensive transition did you see miscommunications, two defenders running to one player, and leaving another one wide open? I saw the dark ages of the late 80's when we had a team capable of playing the way you want them to play. Saw it first hand. You can go through all the math equations and cybermetrics and say a three point attempt worth more points than a two point attempt. But how much is a run-out worth-to the other team?

20 to 25 seconds of clock to pound it inside is not always aesthetically pleasing basketball, but once again if you don't have the athletes to get back on defense it's better then giving up 85-95 points a night. We're stuck with at least one more year of a roster full of long limbed forwards and post players designed to play trapping zones but vulnerable to quick penetration guards. It may be fall 2020 before the decks are totally cleared of players who can't defend them.

But again this is where you and @lightning1 are getting confused. Iowa basically was that team you are describing last year.

Iowa ranked 112 in possessions per game, Iowa was sub 200 in 3pt shots attempted. So really Iowa was not this fast pace run and gun type team. They just totally sucked on defense in every aspect.

Again this year we lose Wagner who was quite frankly a terrible offensive player and playing out of position at the three, and replace him with Joe Weiskamp who should be a positive offensive player and a 3pt threat.

Here is my prediction and I would wager quite strongly that all three of these things happen barring a major injury:

1. Iowa shoots more 3s this year
2. Iowa makes more 3s this year
3. Iowa is a better defensive team this year

 

[NikeHawk21]

We don't need to cover our weakness like a high school team does by shooting less or more. We have the talent to make them at a higher clip on the same number of shots. Made 3's don't hurt us. We won't have Baer out there forcing shots with a 30% average because Wieskamp and Dailey (aided by Connor taking minutes at the 1) give us two more options (although, I'd put my money on Baer returning to form). Even having them out there instead of Wagner will help because it forces a defender out to the perimeter. And the more spaced out the offense is, the more free the offense is and the higher the clip we will shoot it at both inside and out. We will make more as a team this year simply by not playing with spare and broken parts.

Bingo. For how solid of an offensive team we were last year, we got next to nothing from the 3 position. That should change this year with Weiskamp, Baer hopefully returning to form, and the emergence of Dailey. Higher quality offense will make it easier on our defense.

 

[lightning1]

But again this is where you and @lightning1 are getting confused. Iowa basically was that team you are describing last year.

Iowa ranked 112 in possessions per game, Iowa was sub 200 in 3pt shots attempted. So really Iowa was not this fast pace run and gun type team. They just totally sucked on defense in every aspect.

Again this year we lose Wagner who was quite frankly a terrible offensive player and playing out of position at the three, and replace him with Joe Weiskamp who should be a positive offensive player and a 3pt threat.

Here is my prediction and I would wager quite strongly that all three of these things happen barring a major injury:

1. Iowa shoots more 3s this year
2. Iowa makes more 3s this year
3. Iowa is a better defensive team this year

I'd be surprised if they shoot more 3s this year. I'll be surprised if they finish the season with a higher 3pt FG % as a team. All of these bold predictions don't amount to much anyway. The question is: Will we be an NCAA tournament team this year? How much are you willing to wager on that?

 

[lightning1]

I agree we don't have the athletes to play at the speed Fran wants to. But that really doesn't have anything to do with shooting more 3s. You can take just as much time trying to get an open 3 as you can trying to get it inside. I can see the confusion from watching how easy iowa gives up open 3s, but most teams actually try to defend against it.

It absolutely has something to do with it. As missed 3 pt shots = long rebounds = run out offense for the other team. If we can't get back and defend 400 missed 3 pt attempts, how is it going to work when there are 450 missed 3 pt attempts?

 

[lightning1]

I swear, some of you guys are like addicts, in justifying your reasoning. You refuse to accept that this problem only gets fixed with better defense. I could spend all day copying and pasting quotes about "you win titles with defense" from Hall of Fame coaches and you guys still wouldn't get it. Carry on.