Is Wisconsin Big Brother?

B

BEATHARDTEAMS

Well-Known Member
Winsconsin Record

2004 Alvarez 9–3 6–2
2005 Alvarez 10–3 5–3
2006 Bielema 12–1 7–1
2007 Bielema 9–4 5–3
2008 Bielema 7–6 3–5
2009 Bielema 10–3 5–3
2010 Bielema 11–2 7–1
2011 Bielema 11–3 6–2
2012 Bielema/Alvarez 8–6 4–4
2013 Andersen 9–4 6–2
2014 Andersen/Alvarez 1
2015 Chryst 10–3 6–2
2016 Chryst 11–3 7–2
2017 Chryst 13–1
(pretty impressive)

Vs Iowa Record

2004 10-2
2005 7-5
2006 6-7
2007 6-6
2008 9-4
2009 11-2
2010 8-5
2011 7-6
2012 4-8
2013 8-5
2014 7-6
2015 12-2
2016 8-5
2017 8-5

we are also currently 1-5 in the last 6 years head to head.....

is wisconsin able to get better recruits? aren't they lil ol wisconsin? or does it come down to coaching and schemes?
 


Wisconsin is an Iowa clone that has recently revamped their defense with that 3-4 zone rush scheme. Other than that recent change, they are pretty much Iowa with slightly better linemen and materially better RBs. They have surpassed Iowa because they are the only BCS school in a bigger state. Their slightly higher success has helped them get the second cut guys out of Ohio who don't go to OSU or Michigan. Their slightly better o-lines have led them to recruit better RBs. I don't know what coaching or schematic change would push us above them. I don't think there is one.
 


okeefe4prez said:
Wisconsin is an Iowa clone that has recently revamped their defense with that 3-4 zone rush scheme. Other than that recent change, they are pretty much Iowa with slightly better linemen and materially better RBs. They have surpassed Iowa because they are the only BCS school in a bigger state. Their slightly higher success has helped them get the second cut guys out of Ohio who don't go to OSU or Michigan. Their slightly better o-lines have led them to recruit better RBs. I don't know what coaching or schematic change would push us above them. I don't think there is one.
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didn't kirk say we are on their level though? it doesn't look like it so is he delusional?
 


okeefe4prez said:
Wisconsin is an Iowa clone that has recently revamped their defense with that 3-4 zone rush scheme. Other than that recent change, they are pretty much Iowa with slightly better linemen and materially better RBs. They have surpassed Iowa because they are the only BCS school in a bigger state. Their slightly higher success has helped them get the second cut guys out of Ohio who don't go to OSU or Michigan. Their slightly better o-lines have led them to recruit better RBs. I don't know what coaching or schematic change would push us above them. I don't think there is one.
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True, bigger population in Wis than Iowa.

You're giving ISUx wayyyy too much credit as a roster disrupter.

How many studly native Iowa players have opted for ISU over Iowa? Not many.

Iowa loses its studly native players to out of state schools, especially WRs.
Wisky stud players stay home.

The 2017 Iowa roster had #57 native Iowans on it.
The 2017 Wisky roster had #54 native cheese-heads on it.

About the same. Maybe that indicates the quality of cheese-head recruit is better.
 


Wisconsin has a few key advantages over Iowa....

Almost twice the in-state population. They are the only power 5 school in the state so every kid grows up a Badger. They are closer to Michigan. They have an AD who used to coach the football team.

Plus the intangibles... Russell Wilson, Melvin Gordon and JJ Watt are current NFL superstars. Corey Clement caught a touchdown and had 100 yards receiving in the super bowl. Iowa's biggest stars in the NFL right now are probably Micah Hyde, Mike Daniels, and Brandon Scherff. CJ Beathard was (unfairly) a punchline as the 49ers won every game once he was replaced by Jimmy G. Iowa produces solid lineman, Tight Ends, linebackers and DB's....not exactly positions that are crushing the State Farm advertising dollars.

None of those things are insurmountable, but it is the reality.
 


I think it takes more than a 15 year run to be considered big brother. It probably won't be long before we have a long stretch of being better than them. That and there is no relation to that program. Iowa and Iowa State have the relation of being in the same state. Calling Wisconsin a big brother to Iowa isn't much different than saying Ohio State is Iowa's big brother. It doesn't really make sense.
 


mopkins said:
Wisconsin has a few key advantages over Iowa....

Almost twice the in-state population. They are the only power 5 school in the state so every kid grows up a Badger. They are closer to Michigan. They have an AD who used to coach the football team.

Plus the intangibles... Russell Wilson, Melvin Gordon and JJ Watt are current NFL superstars. Corey Clement caught a touchdown and had 100 yards receiving in the super bowl. Iowa's biggest stars in the NFL right now are probably Micah Hyde, Mike Daniels, and Brandon Scherff. CJ Beathard was (unfairly) a punchline as the 49ers won every game once he was replaced by Jimmy G. Iowa produces solid lineman, Tight Ends, linebackers and DB's....not exactly positions that are crushing the State Farm advertising dollars.

None of those things are insurmountable, but it is the reality.
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Didn't CJ win one or two games as the starter?? At least one.
 




okeefe4prez said:
Wisconsin is an Iowa clone that has recently revamped their defense with that 3-4 zone rush scheme. Other than that recent change, they are pretty much Iowa with slightly better linemen and materially better RBs. They have surpassed Iowa because they are the only BCS school in a bigger state. Their slightly higher success has helped them get the second cut guys out of Ohio who don't go to OSU or Michigan. Their slightly better o-lines have led them to recruit better RBs. I don't know what coaching or schematic change would push us above them. I don't think there is one.
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They not only have bigger offensive linemen by about 20 lbs a man but they do more straightahead smash mouth blocking, they have become the bullies of the Big 10 West and even the Big 10.. The hawk's zone blocking scheme has been getting eaten up for some years because we don't have the really good fast cutback runners like in the early 2000's and we don't use any counterplays or jet sweep action etc to keep the defense from just running towards our first motion.

The hawk offensive line does pretty well between the tackles but maybe just not fast enough to get the zone block reaches consistently.
 


Iowa and Wisconsin would battle for B1G hierarchy and Iowa lost the battle starting in 2010. Iowa really needs to beat Wisconsin this year. That game has become the ‘03 Iowa State game or the 2011 Northwestern game......you gotta win that bad boy at all cost.
 


trj said:
Iowa and Wisconsin would battle for B1G hierarchy and Iowa lost the battle starting in 2010. Iowa really needs to beat Wisconsin this year. That game has become the ‘03 Iowa State game or the 2011 Northwestern game......you gotta win that bad boy at all cost.
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I've always said that Wisconsin is, by far, Iowa's nemesis. Yes, they are big brother at the moment. The road to the B1G championship goes through Madison.

They don't recruit a lot better than Iowa. Recently, it's not been that different. I think they do have somewhat better offensive looks, and at times they've had better skill players. Definitely stud running backs. Their OL is freakishly huge. You have to have an offense to beat them. Otherwise, they just wear you down.

The Wisky game is a must win for Iowa.
 


Seth53 said:
True, bigger population in Wis than Iowa.

You're giving ISUx wayyyy too much credit as a roster disrupter.

How many studly native Iowa players have opted for ISU over Iowa? Not many.

Iowa loses its studly native players to out of state schools, especially WRs.
Wisky stud players stay home.

The 2017 Iowa roster had #57 native Iowans on it.
The 2017 Wisky roster had #54 native cheese-heads on it.

About the same. Maybe that indicates the quality of cheese-head recruit is better.
Click to expand...

Um, Lazard is an example of one such guy who in hindsight likely would have changed the look of the team drastically. A guy like that is probably good for 4-6 wins over the course of his career. And I don't know if you've noticed this, but we have very little depth. I'd much rather be rolling a guy like Jake Campos out as a redshirt senior on the o-line than some of the guys we had to rely on this past year. I agree we aren't missing on a lot of stud skill position players because the state produces so few and we have lost them to Michigan and Oregon, but guys like Campos and guys a cut below him could make a big difference in our depth, which is a huge part of Big Ten football.

And as I pointed out, Wisconsin has a bigger population than Iowa so I wouldn't be surprised if their in state talent pool is better than Iowa's.
 


Lazard is the only guy (stud guy) I can recall in recent history who Iowa missed out on.

One guy isn't going to win you six extra games in three years.

I think 75% of this has to do with coaching.
 


Seth53 said:
Lazard is the only guy (stud guy) I can recall in recent history who Iowa missed out on.

One guy isn't going to win you six extra games in three years.

I think 75% of this has to do with coaching.
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Uh, it's over 4 years and I said 4-6 games. Would you have rather had Lazard against MSU in the title game in 2015? Would he have helped against NU and Purdue this year? How about against NDSU, Northwestern and 'Sconny in 2016? A guy like that forces the defense to respect the pass and makes it way harder to load the box and blitz every play. It's been so long bince Iowa has had a decent WR that you are forgetting how awesome it is to have one.
 


okeefe4prez said:
Uh, it's over 4 years and I said 4-6 games. Would you have rather had Lazard against MSU in the title game in 2015? Would he have helped against NU and Purdue this year? How about against NDSU, Northwestern and 'Sconny in 2016? A guy like that forces the defense to respect the pass and makes it way harder to load the box and blitz every play. It's been so long bince Iowa has had a decent WR that you are forgetting how awesome it is to have one.
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#1--of course. Would he have played defense the last NINE and half minutes in the game?
#2--helped, not win by himself. Team didn't show up.
#3--Again, you're talking one guy being targeted on, what, 10 plays a game? Would he punt, make Extra points, FGs, and play defense, use timeouts wisely and make the right calls too?
#4--DJK was pretty good. So was Vandenberg.

He's one guy. If the WRs suck as you say, people simply would have smothered him, daring Iowa to go to the other 'options'
 


Seth53 said:
#1--of course. Would he have played defense the last NINE and half minutes in the game?
#2--helped, not win by himself. Team didn't show up.
#3--Again, you're talking one guy being targeted on, what, 10 plays a game? Would he punt, make Extra points, FGs, and play defense, use timeouts wisely and make the right calls too?
#4--DJK was pretty good. So was Vandenberg.

He's one guy. If the WRs suck as you say, people simply would have smothered him, daring Iowa to go to the other 'options'
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He wouldn't have played defense the last 9 minutes, but we may have been up more than a touchdown at that point too. During close games, one or two plays is the difference between winning and losing. One great skill player can easily be the difference in 6 games over 4 years. That number is probably conservative actually. If Melvin Gordon would have stayed committed, we may easily have been Wisconsin during that time.

Also you don't just "simply smother" great receivers.
 


Certainly a lot of "what if's" in this thread.

Wisconsin recruits better RBs, who stick around, and I believe their coaching staff is superior in using that talent.
 






You mean Wisconsin has had 4 coaches since 2004 and are still successful? Thats impossible.

I get tired of the old population crap. Minnesota has twice the population as Iowa and are the only in state school. They dont seem to benefit from that.

Wisconsin has had a better AD that demands success. That is the big difference.
 


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