Kirk Ferentz- What Went Wrong

CJSHawk

CJSHawk

Well-Known Member
When I think of how Iowa Football under Kirk Ferentz went south these are the reasons I keep coming back to:1. The Contract- I'd imagine when ADs get together, and Gary Barta isn't around, Ferentz's contract is the source of a lot of laughter and is used as a cautionary tale. Ferentz and his agent literally have Iowa over a barrel. I've heard it described that Ferentz coaches Iowa football with a giant middle finger in the air. Of course he does!! Because he knows he works for a weak and ineffective AD that can't touch him. What's worse is his assistant coaches know it too. Why go that extra mile in recruiting when you know your head coach has, basically, a lifetime contract and is known for being loyal to bad coaches(Kaz, Campbell, Davis, etc.).2. Recruiting- When Mark Weisman is your best option at RB for three consecutive years that is a failure of recruiting and player development. When Matt Vandeberg is your best option as a punt returner and sees the field before Derrick Willies that's a failure of recruiting and player development. When KMM is your best option at WR for three consecutive years that's a failure of recruiting and player development. And on and on and on......... Ferentz simply can't recruit dynamic skill position players. And when he gets a player like Powell he has no idea what to do with him.3. Not Understanding Player's Strengths and Weaknesses- Ferentz consistently struggles with understanding what his players can and can't do. You'd think after watching Weisman for three years Ferentz would've figured out his limitations. Hell No!! How many outside running plays were called for him yesterday. Even Matt Millen was scratching his head. I simply dont' understand how Rudock plays before CJB. Every advantage Rudock has CJ can learn. However, Rudock can't learn CJ's arm strength. How many times did Millen mention how late Rudock gets the ball to TEs and WRs??4. Strength and Conditioning- Let's face it. Since the rhabdo mess Iowa hasn't even been close to the "Bullies of the Big Ten". When Iowa was good under Ferentz we imposed our will on teams. Now the Minnesotas of the world manhandle us.The Iowa Football Program is desperate for new leadership!!!
 
CJSHawk said:
When I think of how Iowa Football under Kirk Ferentz went south these are the reasons I keep coming back to:1. The Contract- I'd imagine when ADs get together, and Gary Barta isn't around, Ferentz's contract is the source of a lot of laughter and is used as a cautionary tale. Ferentz and his agent literally have Iowa over a barrel. I've heard it described that Ferentz coaches Iowa football with a giant middle finger in the air. Of course he does!! Because he knows he works for a weak and ineffective AD that can't touch him. What's worse is his assistant coaches know it too. Why go that extra mile in recruiting when you know your head coach has, basically, a lifetime contract and is known for being loyal to bad coaches(Kaz, Campbell, Davis, etc.).2. Recruiting- When Mark Weisman is your best option at RB for three consecutive years that is a failure of recruiting and player development. When Matt Vandeberg is your best option as a punt returner and sees the field before Derrick Willies that's a failure of recruiting and player development. When KMM is your best option at WR for three consecutive years that's a failure of recruiting and player development. And on and on and on......... Ferentz simply can't recruit dynamic skill position players. And when he gets a player like Powell he has no idea what to do with him.3. Not Understanding Player's Strengths and Weaknesses- Ferentz consistently struggles with understanding what his players can and can't do. You'd think after watching Weisman for three years Ferentz would've figured out his limitations. Hell No!! How many outside running plays were called for him yesterday. Even Matt Millen was scratching his head. I simply dont' understand how Rudock plays before CJB. Every advantage Rudock has CJ can learn. However, Rudock can't learn CJ's arm strength. How many times did Millen mention how late Rudock gets the ball to TEs and WRs??4. Strength and Conditioning- Let's face it. Since the rhabdo mess Iowa hasn't even been close to the "Bullies of the Big Ten". When Iowa was good under Ferentz we imposed our will on teams. Now the Minnesotas of the world manhandle us.The Iowa Football Program is desperate for new leadership!!!
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Kirk's problem has always been what he does with his talent when he has it. It's pretty crazy to think that in 12 years, iowa has had 5 teams with wnough talent to make an actual run at a national title.

In '02 he ruined that chance by playing the safe player the year before. He also tried like hell to lose games with bad clock management and going ultra conservative with leads. Weird huh?

In '05 we lost our opportunity when our starting qb vot knocked out against isu. Really sucks to not be in position to win with your backup but it happens all the time so not that big of a deal. Then we lose to Michigan and Northwestern in typical Ferentz fashon.

In '08 we lose yet another opportunity due to Kirk's personnel decisions. Maybe our best opportunity ever to go undefeated.

In '09 Kirk tried to give the game away week after week to teams that were considerably less talented but lucky bounces just kept going our way. Once again a qb injury sealed the deal. We still could have gone undefeated if we had a backup that was even remotely ready to play and if he could have finished an actual great coaching day by going for the kill when it was there for the taking.

Then of course in '10 we lose games in every fashon we are used to seeing with Kirk. Not ready in September. Horrible clock management, not being able to get off the field on 3rd and 4th down. And losing to terrible teams.

In a way Ferentz has done a great job with fielding good teams. But he has done an ablolute horrible job of getting results with them. And his opinion on what makes a player good is only getting worse so we are not likely to field any great teams any time soon.
 
I still, as of game day yesterday, was hearing how KF develops players and how they make it to the NFL. Yet, on the field, Iowa's win/loss record is about 58% wins. That's really all that needs to be said about his ability as a head coach. Some people are meant to be assistants for their entire career. It's been quite clear for years KF is one of those guys.

Please note as well that skill players who come through Iowa rarely make it big in the NFL. His ability to develop these type of players is virtually non-existent in his head coaching career at Iowa.

Outside the state of Iowa, the Hawkeye Football program is a joke to many college football fans. I've traveled in 15 to 20 states often over the last 7 years. All I hear now is this statement. What happened to Iowa Football and are they relevant anymore?

Your original question though is What went wrong? There are so many things that have went wrong and it can only be communicated if a book were written about the issues at Iowa. It can't be done in this or any other forum. There's not enough space.
 
KF has always went wrong with his judgement on players, he leaves underclassman on his bench to further develop even though they are more talented than the upperclassman starting. That is a problem..

It's happening this year and it is a KILLER!!!


Think about this for a second. If Gordon came to Iowa would he be behind Wiseman?? I'm willing to bet he would..
 
PCHawk said:
Kirk's problem has always been what he does with his talent when he has it. It's pretty crazy to think that in 12 years, iowa has had 5 teams with wnough talent to make an actual run at a national title.

In '02 he ruined that chance by playing the safe player the year before. He also tried like hell to lose games with bad clock management and going ultra conservative with leads. Weird huh?

In '05 we lost our opportunity when our starting qb vot knocked out against isu. Really sucks to not be in position to win with your backup but it happens all the time so not that big of a deal. Then we lose to Michigan and Northwestern in typical Ferentz fashon.

In '08 we lose yet another opportunity due to Kirk's personnel decisions. Maybe our best opportunity ever to go undefeated.

In '09 Kirk tried to give the game away week after week to teams that were considerably less talented but lucky bounces just kept going our way. Once again a qb injury sealed the deal. We still could have gone undefeated if we had a backup that was even remotely ready to play and if he could have finished an actual great coaching day by going for the kill when it was there for the taking.

Then of course in '10 we lose games in every fashon we are used to seeing with Kirk. Not ready in September. Horrible clock management, not being able to get off the field on 3rd and 4th down. And losing to terrible teams.

In a way Ferentz has done a great job with fielding good teams. But he has done an ablolute horrible job of getting results with them. And his opinion on what makes a player good is only getting worse so we are not likely to field any great teams any time soon.
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08-10 was such a waste of talent and it's funny that the modest success he was able to luck into with that group was what lead to his lifetime contract.

what has lead to wasted seasons that could have been great 3 times is now is his inability to give up on a QB and let a more talented player learn on the job.
 
RocknRollface said:
08-10 was such a waste of talent and it's funny that the modest success he was able to luck into with that group was what lead to his lifetime contract.

what has lead to wasted seasons that could have been great 3 times is now is his inability to give up on a QB and let a more talented player learn on the job.
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I would have no problem paying him what he is based on those seasons but there were plenty of red flags to make it stupid to give him the length of contract he did. If a fan wants to blindly look at just wins and loses, that's one thing. But as an AD you have to look at more, and it was pretty obvious that Ferentz doesn't coach winning football unless an abnormal amount of recruits over achieve.
 
Paragraph - a distinct section of a piece of writing, usually dealing with a single theme and indicated by a new line, indentation, or numbering.

next time...try using a few of these...
 
I think there has been a real perception problem for Iowa football fans over the Ferentz years. The question really shouldn't be what went wrong because if you take a good hard look at his coaching career here you'll realize things never really went all that right for any length of time. The bottom line is that Kirk inexplicably had a wonderful 3 year run from 2002-2004 that falsely cemented his reputation among Iowa fans and some people outside of the program as a fantastic coach. Nothing could be further from the truth, because since that magical little run he's had what I would call one excellent season, which actually transpired due to a series of tremendous lucky breaks. The prior season he went 8-4 during the regular season with an arguably more talented team, then went 7-5 in 2010 with a team loaded with future NFL talent. He is essentially a guy who has had a few really good seasons interspersed with far more seasons of mediocrity or worse. For the last ten years he has basically been a .500 coach in conference play. We don't beat the good teams and haven't been ranked at the end of a season is a very long time. Kirk has always been overrated in my mind. Fans and some in the media need to stop living in 2002-2004; that was a decade ago. He's had one regular season with 9 wins since then; one. Considering his contract, he's been a failure for the last several years.

Ferentz has drained the fun out of Iowa football for me; his teams are often boring and painful to watch. They can't put away inferior opponents and can't hold leads because Kirk turtles up with a lead and just tries to hang on instead of going for the death blow. There was absolutely no reason why CJ Beathard shouldn't have started the 2nd half yesterday. Nah, just stick with what doesn't work because change is evil.

I haven't watched an Iowa football game since Northwestern this year. I just don't have any interest in watching it which is sad because I've been a fan since the 70's, and have attended games in every decade since the 70's. Now I just feel disheartened, apathetic quiet resignation regarding the football program because I know nothing is going to change for quite some time, at least not until Kirk leaves which I fear will be at least 4 or 5 years down the road. The last time I attended a game in person was 2011; I won't pay money to go to another one until Kirk is gone. I don't believe in encouraging failure.
 
Recruiting has been below average as a result of below average assistants getting paid below average salaries. People can point to the schemes being outdated but it’s more just not having near the caliber of players that we used to have. The “good stories” back in the glory days were guys that had to outwork the SEC caliber players on our roster. Now we rely solely on good stories. I have no doubt that a couple top 25 classes would be good enough to overcome our coaching deficiencies and at least win the West.
 
PCHawk said:
I would have no problem paying him what he is based on those seasons but there were plenty of red flags to make it stupid to give him the length of contract he did. If a fan wants to blindly look at just wins and loses, that's one thing. But as an AD you have to look at more, and it was pretty obvious that Ferentz doesn't coach winning football unless an abnormal amount of recruits over achieve.
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Agreed. The win totals weren't horrible but he underachieved to the standard Ferentz level of 2/3 losses more than necessary, even more in 2010 and was right on cue to do it in 09 except for two fluke plays against teams we should have been destroying.
 
Benddontbreak said:
Recruiting has been below average as a result of below average assistants getting paid below average salaries. People can point to the schemes being outdated but it’s more just not having near the caliber of players that we used to have. The “good storiesâ€￾ back in the glory days were guys that had to outwork the SEC caliber players on our roster. Now we rely solely on good stories. I have no doubt that a couple top 25 classes would be good enough to overcome our coaching deficiencies and at least win the West.
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I agree - and I think a lot of this still goes back to the assistants. Kirk had most of his early success with good assistants... Bielema, Norm, etc. when those guys moved on, Kirk simply promoted from within, hired a retread coach who was fired by Texas, etc. rather than going out and getting the best assistants he could. I think it was mentioned how little our assistants are paid compared to most other programs.... You get what you pay for and IMO you need to surround yourself with the best staff you can get. You can't do it all by yourself. And, recruiting also a factor here, too.

In other words, KF botched it when he had to replace Norm and KOK and now he is lying in the bed he made. Just my two bits.
 
CJSHawk said:
When I think of how Iowa Football under Kirk Ferentz went south these are the reasons I keep coming back to:1. The Contract- I'd imagine when ADs get together, and Gary Barta isn't around, Ferentz's contract is the source of a lot of laughter and is used as a cautionary tale. Ferentz and his agent literally have Iowa over a barrel. I've heard it described that Ferentz coaches Iowa football with a giant middle finger in the air. Of course he does!! Because he knows he works for a weak and ineffective AD that can't touch him. What's worse is his assistant coaches know it too. Why go that extra mile in recruiting when you know your head coach has, basically, a lifetime contract and is known for being loyal to bad coaches(Kaz, Campbell, Davis, etc.).2. Recruiting- When Mark Weisman is your best option at RB for three consecutive years that is a failure of recruiting and player development. When Matt Vandeberg is your best option as a punt returner and sees the field before Derrick Willies that's a failure of recruiting and player development. When KMM is your best option at WR for three consecutive years that's a failure of recruiting and player development. And on and on and on......... Ferentz simply can't recruit dynamic skill position players. And when he gets a player like Powell he has no idea what to do with him.3. Not Understanding Player's Strengths and Weaknesses- Ferentz consistently struggles with understanding what his players can and can't do. You'd think after watching Weisman for three years Ferentz would've figured out his limitations. Hell No!! How many outside running plays were called for him yesterday. Even Matt Millen was scratching his head. I simply dont' understand how Rudock plays before CJB. Every advantage Rudock has CJ can learn. However, Rudock can't learn CJ's arm strength. How many times did Millen mention how late Rudock gets the ball to TEs and WRs??4. Strength and Conditioning- Let's face it. Since the rhabdo mess Iowa hasn't even been close to the "Bullies of the Big Ten". When Iowa was good under Ferentz we imposed our will on teams. Now the Minnesotas of the world manhandle us.The Iowa Football Program is desperate for new leadership!!!
Click to expand...

Spot on post. Agree with everything you mentioned. How Weismann is our best option at running back is a head scratcher. And how Vandy is our best option at punt return ... Again a head scratcher. Recruiting is the name of the game. And we simply aren't getting it done on the recruiting front. We aren't spotting the hidden gems like we used to. While this is one of IOWA's more athletic teams we are still way behind the ball compared to other programs.

As as a fan of 35 years I sort of find myself exhausted even talking about the state of Iowa football. From top to bottom just too many problems... And an AD who will sink with the ship .... Being the man who gave Kirk his ironclad contract.
 
Kirk tries to run Iowa like an NFL team. Conservative, don't get blown out, win and lose close games, stick with your starter at QB no matter what, run the ball, play action, pro sets. No fake punts, no fake kicks, control the clock, etc. etc.

That's fine in the NFL where the playing field is loaded with talent and the league tries to keep things as even as they can. College football is not the NFL Kurt.
 
Biggusblockus said:
Kirk tries to run Iowa like an NFL team. Conservative, don't get blown out, win and lose close games, stick with your starter at QB no matter what, run the ball, play action, pro sets. No fake punts, no fake kicks, control the clock, etc. etc.

That's fine in the NFL where the playing field is loaded with talent and the league tries to keep things as even as they can. College football is not the NFL Kurt.
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Not a bad philosophy if we had a 16 or more team playoff.
 
Bluesman said:
I think there has been a real perception problem for Iowa football fans over the Ferentz years. The question really shouldn't be what went wrong because if you take a good hard look at his coaching career here you'll realize things never really went all that right for any length of time. The bottom line is that Kirk inexplicably had a wonderful 3 year run from 2002-2004 that falsely cemented his reputation among Iowa fans and some people outside of the program as a fantastic coach. Nothing could be further from the truth, because since that magical little run he's had what I would call one excellent season, which actually transpired due to a series of tremendous lucky breaks. The prior season he went 8-4 during the regular season with an arguably more talented team, then went 7-5 in 2010 with a team loaded with future NFL talent. He is essentially a guy who has had a few really good seasons interspersed with far more seasons of mediocrity or worse. For the last ten years he has basically been a .500 coach in conference play. We don't beat the good teams and haven't been ranked at the end of a season is a very long time. Kirk has always been overrated in my mind. Fans and some in the media need to stop living in 2002-2004; that was a decade ago. He's had one regular season with 9 wins since then; one. Considering his contract, he's been a failure for the last several years.

Ferentz has drained the fun out of Iowa football for me; his teams are often boring and painful to watch. They can't put away inferior opponents and can't hold leads because Kirk turtles up with a lead and just tries to hang on instead of going for the death blow. There was absolutely no reason why CJ Beathard shouldn't have started the 2nd half yesterday. Nah, just stick with what doesn't work because change is evil.

I haven't watched an Iowa football game since Northwestern this year. I just don't have any interest in watching it which is sad because I've been a fan since the 70's, and have attended games in every decade since the 70's. Now I just feel disheartened, apathetic quiet resignation regarding the football program because I know nothing is going to change for quite some time, at least not until Kirk leaves which I fear will be at least 4 or 5 years down the road. The last time I attended a game in person was 2011; I won't pay money to go to another one until Kirk is gone. I don't believe in encouraging failure.
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Well said. You took the words right out of my mouth. I, too, have been a Hawk fan... Going on 35 years ... And the this season is the first time I truly realized how apathetic I have become. I gave up my season tickets last year ... The year prior I only attended one game. I just can't make myself watch a program underperform. It's unfortunate because we have an incredible fanbase and we have top notch facilities. Yet we have underperformed for most of Kirk's tenure.

And I think that was most evident the year we went 7-5 when Clayborn was a senior and that team had a roster with a few NFLs on it. We play the level of our opponent and we simply fail to put teams away. Too much of the same patterns... Getting out coached by 1st and 2nd year coaches ... And even losing to an interim coach against Minnesota a few years back.

It's tough to watch. And it's unfortunate to see our fan base become divided and some fans calling out others for not being "true" fans. We are all fans of the University of Iowa and it's time for a change. We've seen enough to know the program will continue to falter .... We've seen enough to know this staff will not exceed past being "average."
 
DesMoinesHawki said:
Spot on post. Agree with everything you mentioned. How Weismann is our best option at running back is a head scratcher. And how Vandy is our best option at punt return ... Again a head scratcher. Recruiting is the name of the game. And we simply aren't getting it done on the recruiting front. We aren't spotting the hidden gems like we used to. While this is one of IOWA's more athletic teams we are still way behind the ball compared to other programs.

As as a fan of 35 years I sort of find myself exhausted even talking about the state of Iowa football. From top to bottom just too many problems... And an AD who will sink with the ship .... Being the man who gave Kirk his ironclad contract.
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Weisman isn't out best option at TB, we obviously have a better proven punt returner in KMM and likely 4 or 5 others could do better than Vandenburg and Jake is not our best QB.

It's pretty easy to see why Iowa has trouble winning.
 
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