B1G Things: My Hoops Power Rankings for 12/5

JonDMiller

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B1G Things: Basketball Power Rankings 12/5 « Hawkeye NationHawkeye Nation

Here is my latest set of power rankings following the Big Ten/ACC Challenge. These rankings are based on who is doing what now, not necessarily based on where I think things will play out in March. They are a week to week barometer of play.


1. Wisconsin: When the Badgers are playing against a team with the a pulse, you can expect the outcome to be in the 40's or 50's. They beat Virginia 48-38 on Wednesday night in a game that only a Badger fan could love. Seriously, only a Badger fan could love that sort of horrific style. But, Bo just wins and the 9-0 start for them is one of their best in school history. This team is very perimeter dependent; 23 of their 52 field goal attempts (44.2%) were from beyond the arc against Virginia and they made just five of those and 15 total field goals for the game. But the Badgers too the air out of the ball, limited possessions and played vice grip defense; Virginia had just 47 field goal attempts (making only 11) and were 1-11 from three themselves, while the Badgers committed just seven turnovers. Again, this is ugly, ugly basketball...but Bo's stylistic shortcomings add up to W's and right now, the Badgers are playing the best team ball of any team in the league .
2. Iowa: I know, you're hollering 'HOMER!'. Right now, if Iowa played any team in the Big Ten on a neutral court and without Ted Valentine as one of the officials, I wouldn't be shocked one bit if Iowa were the victor. The games at Michigan State and Ohio State are still going to favor those teams, as they would at Wisconsin and Michigan, possibly even Minnesota...at least in Vegas. I am emphasizing right now because having watched every Big Ten team play parts of at least one game, most of them have a good deal of work to get done. That's the case with most every team right now, including Michigan State and Ohio State. I think Iowa has fewer questions right now than does Ohio State, whose played just seven games and Maryland being their toughest foe.
3. Michigan State: The Spartans looked soft against North Carolina. There, I said it. North Carolina shot just 44 percent, so that didn't tip the scales. They were just 2-11 from three, so that didn't tip the scales. They committed 20 fouls to Michigan State's 19, so that didn't tip the scales. What did? The glass; UNC had a 49-48 rebounding advantage on the Spartans, including +3 on the glass, in the Breslin Center. Maybe the Spartans are still trying to learn how to play basketball where you are not allowed to grab the guard as they attempt to dribble past you, or where you can lean into an opponent with the ball with your forearm as a brace across their back? Maybe this was just a blip on the radar for them but since beating Kentucky, they haven't looked all that great, or at least not like the #1 team in the nation.
4. Ohio State: It's still early and the Buckeyes haven't been tested. Really, they won't be tested until the Big Ten season begins as their pre-conference schedule just doesn't have those tough outs you'd expect to see from a team ranked as highly as they are; Notre Dame is their highest rated foe the rest of the way and they'll begin the Big Ten season against Purdue and Nebraska. So the Buckeyes will start the year 15-0 before they play at Michigan State and then they host Iowa. I'm just not a believer in their lofty ranking and on a neutral court and again, no Valentine and if the rules are called the way they are supposed to be called, I'd take the three teams listed over Ohio State.
5. Michigan: The Wolverines are going through a growth phase and that starts at point guard with Derrick Walton. He's talented but he is a freshman. He has 24 assists in Michigan's eight games (not a big number for a player averaging 26 minutes per game) but he's committed 20 turnovers. Mitch McGary is still trying to feel his way through this new reality (Life without Trey Burke) and is averaging just 9.3ppg. Glen Robinson junior is off to a less than expected start, too. Many of his key numbers are lower than they were a year ago. We'll see how things play out for these two the rest of the season but as of right now they may have cost themselves some money choosing to return to college. Nik Stauskas is making some, though.
It's at this point where the eyeball test really is the primary barometer.
6. Indiana: In a head to head neutral game, I'd choose Indiana. They have some nice young talent around Yogi Farrell and Will Sheehey, namely in Noah Vonleh. He is a beast of a youngster! This team will be frustrating for Indiana fans as the young ones grow up, but they could be dangerous later in the year if they can overcome The Wall.
7. Illinois: I put them here because they have something no one below them has; Reyvonte Rice. They are also young and sometimes the moment is too big for them, such as at Georgia Tech on Tuesday.
8. Minnesota: This is a small ball team, but they have good ones in the Hollins boys.
9. Nebraska: Nice win at Miami last night and they also own a win against Georgia. Up next is as road game at Creighton on Sunday, a huge barometer for them and a game they need to win in order to convert some skeptics.
10. Purdue: I'd favor them on a neutral over the teams below them. That's really where I am at with this right now. AJ Hammons can be dominant, but he has been far from that so far this year.
11. Penn State: Their duo of Frazier and Newbill will help them upset some teams at home. Iowa plays there February 15th.
12. Northwestern: This is a transitional year for the Wildcats...or at least that is what people will say and write. They are transitioning to a new style, a new era under Chris Collins. I am dubious as to if it will work, as recruiting is going to be the big challenge into this program. Their gym isn't much different than Cameron Indoor or the old North Carolina Carmichael Arena...it's just that they have no tradition and have never been to an NCAA tournament.
 


The thing Iowa is lacking right now is killer instinct. We have to put teams away when we are up 10-15. For that reason I have to go:

1. Wisconsin: Big wins
2. MSU: Still beat UK on neutral court, and a decent win over Oklahoma
3. OSU: Won @ Marquette and Undefeated
4. Iowa: I do think Iowa can jump OSU with a win over ISU.
5. Indiana: 1 point loss to UConn, other loss is to a top 5 team in the orange
 


After Wednesday night we are starting to get an idea of what maybe ahead. My power rankings more or less resemble Jon's.

My thoughts are that Michigan and Michigan State were ranked over Iowa and Wisconsin at the start of the season on reputation, but right now they probably are behind each in development. MSU may not have the athletes off the bench that can contribute. Ohio State is going to challenge, but much like Michigan, a little inexperienced.

Minnesota appears to be the better than Illinois, Purdue, Nebraska and Indiana. These are teams that I see in the battle for 6th place. I haven't looked at schedules but whoever among these four with the easiest B1G schedule will move up. Northwestern is the old Northwestern and PSU could be better than some teams currently above them.
 


If this Iowa team is the 2nd best in the Big 10 than the Big 10 is down. This team is a 4-6 team. We haven't played a Kentucky or UNC level talented team Jon. Not sure how you can put us above MSU.
 




Based on the criteria you used to rank the teams (where they are now) I agree with 1 to 7. I haven't seen the other 5 play but they look about right. I also suspect the top 5 will be the top 5 at the end of the season just not in that exact order.

I think Wisconsin's lack of size will catch up to them and they end up 4th or 5th. Watching them play makes me think it's a good thing Lick wasn't successful at Iowa. I enjoy the current brand of ball a whole lot more.

Iowa should continue to improve as the year progresses. Jok and Uthoff in particular should get better on the defensive end. I also think both Woody and Gabe will continue to improve moving forward.

Michigan State should play better and get a lot of wins. I'm not sure they have the intangible team chemistry Iowa has and they may have to adjust their style of play. The new rules definitely work against them...if enforced.

Ohio State will be good and play good defense but I think they are overrated. I'm not willing to give them the win over ND at this point. That game is on a neutral court (MSG) and I think ND is solid. They will be up for that game against a top 10 team.

I've always thought Michigan should be ranked in the 20 to 25 range. I also thought coming into the season that McGary and Robinson were both significantly overrated and that Stauskas was underrated. He has athleticism to go with that outside shot. If one of these teams is going to fall out of the top 5 in conference play I think it will be Michigan.
 


If this Iowa team is the 2nd best in the Big 10 than the Big 10 is down. This team is a 4-6 team. We haven't played a Kentucky or UNC level talented team Jon. Not sure how you can put us above MSU.

Is it so impossible to believe this Iowa team is up rather than the Big 10 being down? It's no secret that I have picked Iowa to finish 2nd since last spring and it wasn't because I thought the conference would be down.

How do we know Iowa hasn't played a Kentucky or NC level team? I think Villanova and ND may be as good as these 2 teams. We will find out about NC and ND when they play their in conference games. Kentucky isn't as good now as they will be at the end of the season.
 


B1G Things: Basketball Power Rankings 12/5 « Hawkeye NationHawkeye Nation

Here is my latest set of power rankings following the Big Ten/ACC Challenge. These rankings are based on who is doing what now, not necessarily based on where I think things will play out in March. They are a week to week barometer of play.


1. Wisconsin: When the Badgers are playing against a team with the a pulse, you can expect the outcome to be in the 40's or 50's. They beat Virginia 48-38 on Wednesday night in a game that only a Badger fan could love. Seriously, only a Badger fan could love that sort of horrific style. But, Bo just wins and the 9-0 start for them is one of their best in school history. This team is very perimeter dependent; 23 of their 52 field goal attempts (44.2%) were from beyond the arc against Virginia and they made just five of those and 15 total field goals for the game. But the Badgers too the air out of the ball, limited possessions and played vice grip defense; Virginia had just 47 field goal attempts (making only 11) and were 1-11 from three themselves, while the Badgers committed just seven turnovers. Again, this is ugly, ugly basketball...but Bo's stylistic shortcomings add up to W's and right now, the Badgers are playing the best team ball of any team in the league .
2. Iowa: I know, you're hollering 'HOMER!'. Right now, if Iowa played any team in the Big Ten on a neutral court and without Ted Valentine as one of the officials, I wouldn't be shocked one bit if Iowa were the victor. The games at Michigan State and Ohio State are still going to favor those teams, as they would at Wisconsin and Michigan, possibly even Minnesota...at least in Vegas. I am emphasizing right now because having watched every Big Ten team play parts of at least one game, most of them have a good deal of work to get done. That's the case with most every team right now, including Michigan State and Ohio State. I think Iowa has fewer questions right now than does Ohio State, whose played just seven games and Maryland being their toughest foe.
3. Michigan State: The Spartans looked soft against North Carolina. There, I said it. North Carolina shot just 44 percent, so that didn't tip the scales. They were just 2-11 from three, so that didn't tip the scales. They committed 20 fouls to Michigan State's 19, so that didn't tip the scales. What did? The glass; UNC had a 49-48 rebounding advantage on the Spartans, including +3 on the glass, in the Breslin Center. Maybe the Spartans are still trying to learn how to play basketball where you are not allowed to grab the guard as they attempt to dribble past you, or where you can lean into an opponent with the ball with your forearm as a brace across their back? Maybe this was just a blip on the radar for them but since beating Kentucky, they haven't looked all that great, or at least not like the #1 team in the nation.
4. Ohio State: It's still early and the Buckeyes haven't been tested. Really, they won't be tested until the Big Ten season begins as their pre-conference schedule just doesn't have those tough outs you'd expect to see from a team ranked as highly as they are; Notre Dame is their highest rated foe the rest of the way and they'll begin the Big Ten season against Purdue and Nebraska. So the Buckeyes will start the year 15-0 before they play at Michigan State and then they host Iowa. I'm just not a believer in their lofty ranking and on a neutral court and again, no Valentine and if the rules are called the way they are supposed to be called, I'd take the three teams listed over Ohio State.
5. Michigan: The Wolverines are going through a growth phase and that starts at point guard with Derrick Walton. He's talented but he is a freshman. He has 24 assists in Michigan's eight games (not a big number for a player averaging 26 minutes per game) but he's committed 20 turnovers. Mitch McGary is still trying to feel his way through this new reality (Life without Trey Burke) and is averaging just 9.3ppg. Glen Robinson junior is off to a less than expected start, too. Many of his key numbers are lower than they were a year ago. We'll see how things play out for these two the rest of the season but as of right now they may have cost themselves some money choosing to return to college. Nik Stauskas is making some, though.
It's at this point where the eyeball test really is the primary barometer.
6. Indiana: In a head to head neutral game, I'd choose Indiana. They have some nice young talent around Yogi Farrell and Will Sheehey, namely in Noah Vonleh. He is a beast of a youngster! This team will be frustrating for Indiana fans as the young ones grow up, but they could be dangerous later in the year if they can overcome The Wall.
7. Illinois: I put them here because they have something no one below them has; Reyvonte Rice. They are also young and sometimes the moment is too big for them, such as at Georgia Tech on Tuesday.
8. Minnesota: This is a small ball team, but they have good ones in the Hollins boys.
9. Nebraska: Nice win at Miami last night and they also own a win against Georgia. Up next is as road game at Creighton on Sunday, a huge barometer for them and a game they need to win in order to convert some skeptics.
10. Purdue: I'd favor them on a neutral over the teams below them. That's really where I am at with this right now. AJ Hammons can be dominant, but he has been far from that so far this year.
11. Penn State: Their duo of Frazier and Newbill will help them upset some teams at home. Iowa plays there February 15th.
12. Northwestern: This is a transitional year for the Wildcats...or at least that is what people will say and write. They are transitioning to a new style, a new era under Chris Collins. I am dubious as to if it will work, as recruiting is going to be the big challenge into this program. Their gym isn't much different than Cameron Indoor or the old North Carolina Carmichael Arena...it's just that they have no tradition and have never been to an NCAA tournament.

Jon... I think you are overracting to one loss.

Michigan State goes from #1 in the nation to #3 in the conference?? UNC has some bad losses but the team has talent.
MSU also had 3 of their top players battling injuries.

MSU
WISC
OSU
IOWA

That's how I would rank the top 4.
 


Jon... I think you are overracting to one loss.

Michigan State goes from #1 in the nation to #3 in the conference?? UNC has some bad losses but the team has talent.
MSU also had 3 of their top players battling injuries.

MSU
WISC
OSU
IOWA

That's how I would rank the top 4.

When MSU loses at home it's going to get people's attention. This is true even if they aren't ranked #1.
 


When MSU loses at home it's going to get people's attention. This is true even if they aren't ranked #1.

I don't disagree with anything you stated. I just don't agree they are moved down to the 3rd best team in the conference after 1 loss.

I just think when all is said and done MSU is still the best team and will finish as the best team so I keep them atop the Power rankings.
 


I don't disagree with anything you stated. I just don't agree they are moved down to the 3rd best team in the conference after 1 loss.

I just think when all is said and done MSU is still the best team and will finish as the best team so I keep them atop the Power rankings.

I'm with you on the final results. I think it's MSU -> Iowa -> the other 3 in some order. I'm agreeing with Jon based on the criteria he's using. Under those criteria from what I've seen to date I can't put them 1st.
 


Jon, you are missing the boat on OSU as I think the are really really good. They absolutely picked apart Maryland last night. They are deserving of the top spot and certainly top 2. I think you overestimate what the new rules emphasis will do to OSU/Craft.

Wisconsin=very solid resume. Their win last night was a grinder but they've proven they can also score this year as announcers said they were averaging nearly 80 ppg against solid competition. Think you are underselling them as well.

Illinois choked one away. Nebraska and most notably Penn State really make the bottom of the league much tougher. Penn State nearly beat a solid Pitt team at Pitt.

No argument with Iowa being top 4 but is their resume better than MSU? Hard to say yes to that but hard to say no either. By virtue of MSU beating Kentucky, MSU gets it.
 


If this Iowa team is the 2nd best in the Big 10 than the Big 10 is down. This team is a 4-6 team. We haven't played a Kentucky or UNC level talented team Jon. Not sure how you can put us above MSU.

Villanova is ranked anywhere from 6th to 19th, depending on the source.
 


I have no problem with someone bumping down Michigan State. They're living off a Kentucky win, that was playing their first collegiate game of their lives and survived. Struggled at home against Columbia, struggled at home against Portland State and pretty much dominated at home last night by North Carolina. The Spartans usually get better and are very good in March obviously, but at this point in the season? They have plenty of work to do like everyone else.
 


I have no problem with someone bumping down Michigan State. They're living off a Kentucky win, that was playing their first collegiate game of their lives and survived. Struggled at home against Columbia, struggled at home against Portland State and pretty much dominated at home last night by North Carolina. The Spartans usually get better and are very good in March obviously, but at this point in the season? They have plenty of work to do like everyone else.

Yes it appears Jon's rankings are a as of right now. I think Jon's rankings would differ if he had to predict end of season rankings. MSU always improves and should be an elite 8 team. I think they end up representing the Big 10 best in the NCAA tournament.
 




I have no problem with someone bumping down Michigan State. They're living off a Kentucky win, that was playing their first collegiate game of their lives and survived. Struggled at home against Columbia, struggled at home against Portland State and pretty much dominated at home last night by North Carolina. The Spartans usually get better and are very good in March obviously, but at this point in the season? They have plenty of work to do like everyone else.

So Michigan state's worst lost to date is to North Carolina and their best win is over Kentucky.
Iowa's best win is Notre Dame and worst loss is to Villanova.

Michigan state has a much better win, but a worse loss due to it being to home and an unranked UNC team.
Both teams best wins come at home.

I guess based on this I can see why it's close.
 


I'd probably put Iowa 4th myself but I could see an argument that puts them above Michigan State. Michigan State has that game vs Kentucky, and that's meaningful, but they also struggled vs Portland and Columbia. Meanwhile, we have gone through stretches where we have outplayed multiple good teams by double figures or more.
 


Jon, you are missing the boat on OSU as I think the are really really good. They absolutely picked apart Maryland last night. They are deserving of the top spot and certainly top 2. I think you overestimate what the new rules emphasis will do to OSU/Craft.

Wisconsin=very solid resume. Their win last night was a grinder but they've proven they can also score this year as announcers said they were averaging nearly 80 ppg against solid competition. Think you are underselling them as well.

Illinois choked one away. Nebraska and most notably Penn State really make the bottom of the league much tougher. Penn State nearly beat a solid Pitt team at Pitt.

No argument with Iowa being top 4 but is their resume better than MSU? Hard to say yes to that but hard to say no either. By virtue of MSU beating Kentucky, MSU gets it.

OSU is good. They have a better win (@Marquette, N0. 46 in Pomeroy) than any win Iowa has this year (Xavier 65 and Notre Dame 55 in Pomeroy). Buckeyes play stifling defense, best defense in the country according to Pomeroy. Will be interesting to see how they match up with ND. Buckeyes have loads of quick defenders who can get after the perimeter.
 


OSU is good. They have a better win (@Marquette, N0. 46 in Pomeroy) than any win Iowa has this year (Xavier 65 and Notre Dame 55 in Pomeroy). Buckeyes play stifling defense, best defense in the country according to Pomeroy. Will be interesting to see how they match up with ND. Buckeyes have loads of quick defenders who can get after the perimeter.

Agree. OSU is #1 in the this league right now.

1. OSU
2. Wis.
3. MSU
4. Iowa
5. Mich
6. IU
7. PU
8. Minny
9. Neb
10. Ill
11. PSU
12. NW

Purdue has a lot of new talent that is just figuring it out. Kendall Stephens is a frosh sg who was on fire from the arc last nite. They are not just the Johnson Bros, and Hammond this year. Smotherman looked good also, as did the big guy transfer. They are legit sleepers.
 




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