X and O question

I read a blog by Vint. He says there that zone blocking is behind the times (essentially obsolete). Is this really true?

http://www.blackheartgoldpants.com/.../kirk-ferentz-press-conference-roundup-week-3
Zone blocking itself is not obsolete but the formations it is being run from and the wrinkles involved with running it ex:reading defenders to either give, keep, or throw, has definitely evolved.

Watch the Oregon offense and if you pay attention to the front 5, things are almost exactly the same. Inside zone, stretch, and power. What the other 6 guys are doing on the field though is drastically different.
 
I doubt it is obsolete. I think it is hard to do with 5 guys blocking on 7 defenders or 6 guys blocking on 8-9 defenders.

Iowa is way too predictable.
Iowa doesnt stretch the field or throw the deep pass.

Teams are making us execute long drives and we cannot do it.

Hawks have a terrible redzone offense.

How to not be predictable is not always run the direction of your first motion or the direction your QB opens his hips. I have seen I think one play this year where our motion was to the right but the run came back over left guard with the Right guard pulling to the left and adding one more blocker in the hole. I think it was against UNI and we got a crucial first down in the redzone or a TD.

We hardly ever have the QB run out of the zone read/shotgun and dont run much out of that formation, see predictability.

I could go on.
 
Zone blocking itself is not obsolete but the formations it is being run from and the wrinkles involved with running it ex:reading defenders to either give, keep, or throw, has definitely evolved.

Watch the Oregon offense and if you pay attention to the front 5, things are almost exactly the same. Inside zone, stretch, and power. What the other 6 guys are doing on the field though is drastically different.

That is the surprising thing. KF said he wants a "power," balanced offense. Zone blocking (KF's staple) meshes just fine with quick screens and short passing to create a physical, balanced offense.

OSU runs a power, balanced offense that uses a heavy dose of zone blocking principles out of shot-gun. A true zone zone read is just a regular stretch play with the line zone-blocking to one side where the QB has the option of keeping the ball based on backside defender over-pursuit. It is a built-in constraint play. You can run play-action off the look (see CJ's seam pass to Hamilton) and you run quick screens and sight adjustments out of it. It is obvious Davis sold KF on showing that type of look when KF decided to hire him. But KF refuses to use it.
 
Now, this is a great thread. (NO sarcasm) I especially appreciated drew's comments. It has been a long time ago, but I played football in high school and for a short time in college and then coached in a 2000 kid high school in Iowa for a number of years, so I love the X and O stuff and have a decent understanding. Drew, your analysis was really interesting.
 
I'm not so concerned about the zone blocking scheme.

There were a few examples on Saturday that the cutback lanes were there but Bullock didn't see them.
 
I'm not so concerned about the zone blocking scheme.

There were a few examples on Saturday that the cutback lanes were there but Bullock didn't see them.



He never seems to see them and is why his *** should be on the bench except for passing situations.
 
The big buzzword in college football these days is "conflict." As in, how can you put a defender in conflict on whether to defend the pass or the run. One of the teams that does this best is Kansas State. Constantly reading linebackers and forcing them to play slower. The step up, you throw over the top. They drop in pass coverage, you run. When there is full offensive flow to one spot, with nothing to make the LB's slow down, you are going to have a mass of bodies in that one spot.
 
The Iowa offense works the way it is intended to. We run predictable rushing plays into stacked boxes and get between 2-3 yards. Those runs are designed to do that as there is no effort to disguise it or put in a counter/cut back. When Weisman slams into the line for 2 yards, that is what Kirk wanted to happen. Similarly when we pass, we throw passes that are usually within 5 yards (of even behind) the line of scrimmage. You throw a 5 yard pass to a TE or a RB that can't break tackles you are getting the result you wanted, a 5 yard completion. The point is low risk plays that hopefully keep the drive going by barely getting 10 yards every 3 plays.

As I and others have stated before the offense it intended to eat clock and rest the defense. The thinking, I believe, is that the power running game will wear down the other teams and by the 4th we can pick up 5-6 a carry and milk the clock even more as we hold onto a 3 point lead.

This offense is intended to be low risk and scoring is not the primary goal of each possession. We can argue about whether this system is a good idea, but it indeed works precisely how the captain intends it to.
 
The Iowa offense works the way it is intended to. We run predictable rushing plays into stacked boxes and get between 2-3 yards. Those runs are designed to do that as there is no effort to disguise it or put in a counter/cut back. When Weisman slams into the line for 2 yards, that is what Kirk wanted to happen. Similarly when we pass, we throw passes that are usually within 5 yards (of even behind) the line of scrimmage. You throw a 5 yard pass to a TE or a RB that can't break tackles you are getting the result you wanted, a 5 yard completion. The point is low risk plays that hopefully keep the drive going by barely getting 10 yards every 3 plays.

As I and others have stated before the offense it intended to eat clock and rest the defense. The thinking, I believe, is that the power running game will wear down the other teams and by the 4th we can pick up 5-6 a carry and milk the clock even more as we hold onto a 3 point lead.

This offense is intended to be low risk and scoring is not the primary goal of each possession. We can argue about whether this system is a good idea, but it indeed works precisely how the captain intends it to.

Yup...
It's not like Ferentz has ever said his intent is to have an explosive high scoring O. That style can work again. If you have a passing game and play action game off of it that does have big play ability and keeps the D honest. Your QB has to be able to check out of running plays to a passing play when he can see the D has the play sniffed out. It's an O designed to have 3rd and 3 or less. When it's 3rd and 6 or more of course it's not going to work as well. Saying that this style won't work isn't necessarily true. It's sure not fun to watch but it can work I think with the right play calling and players. I think Iowa has the players just not the right play calling or clock management.
 
Yup...
It's not like Ferentz has ever said his intent is to have an explosive high scoring O. That style can work again. If you have a passing game and play action game off of it that does have big play ability and keeps the D honest. Your QB has to be able to check out of running plays to a passing play when he can see the D has the play sniffed out. It's an O designed to have 3rd and 3 or less. When it's 3rd and 6 or more of course it's not going to work as well. Saying that this style won't work isn't necessarily true. It's sure not fun to watch but it can work I think with the right play calling and players. I think Iowa has the players just not the right play calling or clock management.



I will just say this- the number of play action passes has gone down 10 fold since KOK left.
 
The Iowa offense works the way it is intended to. We run predictable rushing plays into stacked boxes and get between 2-3 yards. Those runs are designed to do that as there is no effort to disguise it or put in a counter/cut back. When Weisman slams into the line for 2 yards, that is what Kirk wanted to happen. Similarly when we pass, we throw passes that are usually within 5 yards (of even behind) the line of scrimmage. You throw a 5 yard pass to a TE or a RB that can't break tackles you are getting the result you wanted, a 5 yard completion. The point is low risk plays that hopefully keep the drive going by barely getting 10 yards every 3 plays.

As I and others have stated before the offense it intended to eat clock and rest the defense. The thinking, I believe, is that the power running game will wear down the other teams and by the 4th we can pick up 5-6 a carry and milk the clock even more as we hold onto a 3 point lead.

This offense is intended to be low risk and scoring is not the primary goal of each possession. We can argue about whether this system is a good idea, but it indeed works precisely how the captain intends it to.

I don't think it's even debatable anymore that it's a bad idea.
 
I read a blog by Vint. He says there that zone blocking is behind the times (essentially obsolete). Is this really true?

http://www.blackheartgoldpants.com/.../kirk-ferentz-press-conference-roundup-week-3

Great article. I totally agree that our blocking scheme is the major culprit. I think we need to bring in an OC that understands the Wisconsin, Stanford, Arkansas or Alabama type scheme. A Wiscy type scheme would score and lot of points, especially against the weak teams, and fit Kirk's conservative style. Wisconsin runs the ball 65% plus every year but still is toward the top in scoring every year (Big Ten wise). Teams are stacking the box against them to.

Here's the problem, Kirk is right that we need a scheme that plays to our recruiting strengths in the Midwest (namely OL and TEs) but the problem is zone blocking requires exceptional skill players to be successful. The only years we have really been successful on offense under KF were 2001, 2002 and 2008 . EVERY other year we have finished bottom half (6th or mostly worse) Big Ten under KF. Those years we had Shonn Greene, Freddy Russell, Brad Banks and Ladell Betts. Those are very rare players, especially at Iowa.
 
That is the surprising thing. KF said he wants a "power," balanced offense. Zone blocking (KF's staple) meshes just fine with quick screens and short passing to create a physical, balanced offense.

OSU runs a power, balanced offense that uses a heavy dose of zone blocking principles out of shot-gun. A true zone zone read is just a regular stretch play with the line zone-blocking to one side where the QB has the option of keeping the ball based on backside defender over-pursuit. It is a built-in constraint play. You can run play-action off the look (see CJ's seam pass to Hamilton) and you run quick screens and sight adjustments out of it. It is obvious Davis sold KF on showing that type of look when KF decided to hire him. But KF refuses to use it.

Why?????????
 
Great article. I totally agree that our blocking scheme is the major culprit. I think we need to bring in an OC that understands the Wisconsin, Stanford, Arkansas or Alabama type scheme. A Wiscy type scheme would score and lot of points, especially against the weak teams, and fit Kirk's conservative style. Wisconsin runs the ball 65% plus every year but still is toward the top in scoring every year (Big Ten wise). Teams are stacking the box against them to.

Here's the problem, Kirk is right that we need a scheme that plays to our recruiting strengths in the Midwest (namely OL and TEs) but the problem is zone blocking requires exceptional skill players to be successful. The only years we have really been successful on offense under KF were 2001, 2002 and 2008 . EVERY other year we have finished bottom half (6th or mostly worse) Big Ten under KF. Those years we had Shonn Greene, Freddy Russell, Brad Banks and Ladell Betts. Those are very rare players, especially at Iowa.

No, not really. Adam Robinson wasn't overly athletic he just understood where the cutback lanes were and could get chunk yardage. Before he went off the rails he consistently got Iowa into 2nd and 5(s) and 3rd and 4(s). He was a much better fit than Coker/weisman/Bullock ever were.

Zone blocking scheme was designed to plug any RB into it and to pick up chunk yardage even against 8 man fronts. It is clearly not the case. At this point i do not think even Shannonhan/Gibb could tweak it to make it work. It is outdated the way Iowa runs it. The problem is the o-line, the overall offensive philosophy is built around an outdated concept.
 
Zone blocking itself is not obsolete but the formations it is being run from and the wrinkles involved with running it ex:reading defenders to either give, keep, or throw, has definitely evolved.

Watch the Oregon offense and if you pay attention to the front 5, things are almost exactly the same. Inside zone, stretch, and power. What the other 6 guys are doing on the field though is drastically different.[/QUOTE

Iowa still runs it as if it was the early 2000's
 
I doubt it is obsolete. I think it is hard to do with 5 guys blocking on 7 defenders or 6 guys blocking on 8-9 defenders.

I wanted to pick out this part of your post because I agree wholeheartedly. The zone blocking scheme is not obsolete, but it's not some sort of magic bullet that's going to cure an offense's ills simply by running it. The zone is designed to account for a -1 man deficit. For example, if you are on offense and have 6 guys on the LOS, you should be able to accommodate (assuming good execution) 7 guys in the box on the defensive side. If you have 7 guys on the LOS (such as in one of our double TE sets), we should be able to accommodate 8 guys in the box on defense. What that tells me is that we're not doing a very good job blocking it up front.

Example:
....................................F

..........C.................W......M........$...................C
...........................E......N....T...E...S
............................T..G..C..G..T..Y................X
..........Z........................Q............H

....................................R

We've essentially got 7 blockers at the LOS (5 OL, 2 TE's). The defense counters by bringing the SS ($ in the diagram) into the box, creating an 8 man box. We NEED to be able to gain something out of this look. The zone blocking scheme involves working in tandem to get horizontal or vertical movement on the DL/LB...the extra defender in the box can and should be negated by the QB/RB with their faking. If we run stretch right out of the above look, that backside DE should not be able to trail that play down the LOS and make the tackle on R from behind because Q's post-handoff faking should alert him to the potential of bootleg. If we're not getting that, we're not properly running the zone play. I honestly don't remember watching Rudock and how he's carrying out the fakes, but I think our zone plays are getting blown up at the point of attack due to the slanting/guessing of DL's. That's why I liked the idea (and have actually used it in the past) of bringing the jet sweep into play with Parker/Powell. It's a wide play that mirrors up nicely with inside zone, a "between the tackles" type of play.

Back to the post I quoted however...I am used to coaching in more spread offenses, where you can use a defenses cheating guys in the box against them with the use of bubble screens, smoke screens, and throwing uncovered. In a more compact format, those options aren't as available and I'm hoping (again, no tape study, just shooting from the hip here) that if we get a play where we have 6 on the LOS but 8 in the box, we're checking out of it into a pass play (pretty sure this isn't happening, at least with any regularity). The below example...

.........C.............F.......W.....M....S..........$...............C
...........................E..T....N......E
.........X.................T..G..C..G..T..Y
...................................Q.........................Z............H

...................................H

In this example, the defense has brought the FS down into the box, perhaps to disguise their coverage, bring pressure, or have spotted a tendency and are expecting a run. In this case we have 6 blockers to go against 8 guys. It doesn't take a mathematician to figure out we're screwed here if we try to run. We can't run left because the F is an overhang player. If he was at normal depth, we could combo the C and LG to the T up to the Will backer and Scherff would go 1 on 1 with the E to his side. That play could work. But with F there, left is shut off. We could try running right, as we have numbers (C and BSG combo N to Will, PSG and T combo E to Mike, and Y arc releases to pick up Sam; although the cut block Scherff would have to make on the T could be tricky, depending on the DL technique), but the problem we face here is that the blocking has to be good on the frontside because if there is any hesitation, that BSDE can run that play down from behind. Because of that F being an overhang player and can be there to play cutback, boot, and reverse, the BSDE can be free to take a step he's taught to take when his tackle steps down (immediately clog the hole created by the stepping down OL) and continue on that track all the way down the LOS. He has no worries about the boot or any other play because F has his back.

In this look, with 0 high safeties, we need to be able to throw the ball. In a formation like this and especially given the defensive arrangement, you need to look for 3 coming weakside, so I'd slide the line to the left, have the back block right, keep the TE in if you want to max protect, and go 1 on 1 with 3 different opportunities to win a man-to-man matchup. If our talent at the WR position is as good as advertised, we'll win those battles and Rudock NEEDS to deliver the ball accurately.
 

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