Why would Shaka and Stevens leave?

[hawkfarmer]

They have both reportedly turned down Minnesota and UCLA to remain at their mid-major programs. Some of us wonder why, but I say why not.

At Butler and VCU the level they compete against is not great like they would face in the B1G or the Pac12. Now, obviously it should be easier to recruit in those programs (UCLA, not Minny necessarily), but with their reputations they won't be too bad at recruiting. And if you say opportunities at national championships i would say Butler has lost 2, and that is far closer than Minny will ever get.

I think the reason they stay at mid majors is that it is easier to get into the NCAA tourney. Yes it is because the conference is easier, and now with the committees inflated/unjustified love of mid-majors and the generosity of giving them 4, 5 and even #1 seeds why would you take the chance of leaving. To me, it's better for them to stay, and easier. yes they won't get as much money, but their job security is better that KF's.

 

[HawkeyesWin]

And you get fired after winning your conference at UCLA. You get fired after a first round win in the NCAA and an NIT championship the year before.

Meant NIT Championship GAME the year before.

 

[IowaFan81]

And you get fired after winning your conference at UCLA. You get fired after a first round win in the NCAA and an NIT championship the year before.

ummm, Minnesota lost the NIT Championship game by 24 last year. And have had continuous bad finishes to the year. They may not land a better coach than Tubby, but he wasn't taking them any higher.

 

[1hawkeye1]

There's something to be said for quality of life. If you enjoy the community you are living in and making a decent salary, why throw that away to move to LA or the frozen tundra of Minnypopolis?

More coin doesn't bring happiness, especially if you are already happy.

 

[BSpringsteen]

So let me get this straight.

Let's say that you are a sales guy. You are doing fine, no complaints, but the boss notices that you are basically creaming the competition. He offers you a job that is the pinnacle of your profession. More money, more responsibility. More prestige. Admiration. You'd be one the most important sales guys in the country.

You're gonna turn it down?

Now - nothing against you if you are wired that way. But most coaches are competitive people, and competitive people are not wired to turn down challenges that come with huge amounts of prestige.

 

[IowaFan81]

So let me get this straight.

Let's say that you are a sales guy. You are doing fine, no complaints, but the boss notices that you are basically creaming the competition. He offers you a job that is the pinnacle of your profession. More money, more responsibility. More prestige. Admiration. You'd be one the most important sales guys in the country.

You're gonna turn it down?

Now - nothing against you if you are wired that way. But most coaches are competitive people, and competitive people are not wired to turn down challenges that come with huge amounts of prestige.

So if you had it made at your current job and probably won't get fired no matter what happens results wise, you'd leave for a job that probably doesn't pay much more and you could get fired in 3-4 years even though you made the NCAA and/or won your conference? Risk vs Reward.

 

[thejumper5]

I can understand Stevens staying. With Butler's move to the new Big East, they're going to be playing against better competition than UCLA and equal competition to Minnesota a lot of years. They're a pretty solid brand, and they recruit quite well for the type of players they want in their system.

With Smart, and the style his teams play, I think he could do huge things at a "name" school like UCLA. I think playing in the A-10 at VCU limits him to an extent, but I think that, like Stevens, it is reasonable to see where they land after all the conference moves shake out before passing full judgment.

 

[hawkfarmer]

So let me get this straight.

Let's say that you are a sales guy. You are doing fine, no complaints, but the boss notices that you are basically creaming the competition. He offers you a job that is the pinnacle of your profession. More money, more responsibility. More prestige. Admiration. You'd be one the most important sales guys in the country.

You're gonna turn it down?

Now - nothing against you if you are wired that way. But most coaches are competitive people, and competitive people are not wired to turn down challenges that come with huge amounts of prestige.

Worked out well for Lickliter

 

[1hawkeye1]

So let me get this straight.

Let's say that you are a sales guy. You are doing fine, no complaints, but the boss notices that you are basically creaming the competition. He offers you a job that is the pinnacle of your profession. More money, more responsibility. More prestige. Admiration. You'd be one the most important sales guys in the country.

You're gonna turn it down?

Now - nothing against you if you are wired that way. But most coaches are competitive people, and competitive people are not wired to turn down challenges that come with huge amounts of prestige.

Well apparently there are at least 2 coaches who aren't "wired that way."

 

[NEIChawk]

It's too damn cold in Minnesota......

 

[jacknicholson]

Minnesota might never be that good ever again. I remember the Michael Thompson days, believe they had a filthy dirty coach, Jim Dutcher then.....

The pressure of coaching in the shadow of John Wooden will always be there, and Shaka/Stevens are aware of that. They are very comfortable where they are, and they are doing very well indeed, especially Stevens playing for the national championship two years in a row and almost beating Duke with a last second three.....

 

[gohawkz]

So if you had it made at your current job and probably won't get fired no matter what happens results wise, you'd leave for a job that probably doesn't pay much more and you could get fired in 3-4 years even though you made the NCAA and/or won your conference? Risk vs Reward.

Not only that, but you still have the chance to win it all. So if your in it for ego that's no excuse to leave. I have more respect for a coach that can take VCU or Butler to the final four then I do for some guy at Kansas or North Carolina who can field a team with blue chippers just because of the name of the school.

 

[ThunderHawk]

This is easy.

Butler is no longer a "mid-major." Why make a lateral move to a program with problems and heightened pressure?

La Shaka can wait for his dream gig and continue to succeed in the meantime. Rodentsota and The Lakers' Invisible Little Bro ain't the dream job.

 

[BSpringsteen]

So if you had it made at your current job and probably won't get fired no matter what happens results wise, you'd leave for a job that probably doesn't pay much more and you could get fired in 3-4 years even though you made the NCAA and/or won your conference? Risk vs Reward.

Yes I would. I would want to know that I was the best in my profession if I had the opportunity.

 

[1hawkeye1]

Yes I would. I would want to know that I was the best in my profession if I had the opportunity.

You should apply.

 

[ThunderHawk]

Yes I would. I would want to know that I was the best in my profession if I had the opportunity.

There's an outside shot that UCLA could afford the opportunity to be the "best in my profession," But BucktoothedRatSota sure as sh!t wouldn't.

 

[kicker22]

IMO both these coaches are currently at school's that have appreciate and truly value the coaches that they have in place. This is displayed at all levels whether it be the administration, boosters, players, or students. I know the temptations are there for them to leave to pursue other programs, but I think the way they are viewed by the community and the programs they at currently at is far greater than leaving for UCLA or Minnesota where the coach is of no greater importance then wins and losses.

Both are great coaches, but as people, I honestly think they have a connection to the schools they are at that is about more than money and I feel the same way about the university's connection with their coach. I think both coaches realize that the openings at Minnesota and UCLA are a "win or else" position and I don't think that either coach want to give up what they have accomplished at their current schools to enter into that kind of environment.

 

[hawkeye12345]

Stevens staying is probably the most confusing. They are moving to the Big East next year and their competition is going to get exponentially more difficult. They are losing two of their best players (Clarke and Smith). Smith was the only player with any real height on the team and no incoming recruits will fill that void.

Sure they are a good mid-major team that can 'get up' for a top tiered program but those games were so few and far between. Once they hit the heart of their conference schedule they are more likely to fold than rise above the competition.

So basically Stevens is going to be facing tougher conference foes after signing a larger contract thus the added pressure to win at a school that has facilities that are pushing 100 years old (Hinkle was built in 1928 and looks like the old Field House). He should have taken the money and gone to UCLA.

Bad move on his part.

 

[sportstalent]

And you get fired after winning your conference at UCLA. You get fired after a first round win in the NCAA and an NIT championship the year before.

Meant NIT Championship GAME the year before.

Howland should have thanked UCLA for letting him coach this year. He has had about as many kids transfer out of there as Lickliter did at Iowa.

If Smart and Stevens love where they are what is the problem, don't see people questioning Mark Few for staying at Gonzaga. They are both good coaches and good people, maybe they like their fanbases that appreciate what they do and are content. Maybe they know the bigger schools will let them go after one mediocre year after the hype that surrounds them.

I am surprised Tubby lasted as long as he did, wherever he has gone not named Tulsa, it has been the same fan animosity at the end of his run.

 

[kicker22]

Stevens staying is probably the most confusing. They are moving to the Big East next year and their competition is going to get exponentially more difficult. They are losing two of their best players (Clarke and Smith). Smith was the only player with any real height on the team and no incoming recruits will fill that void.

Sure they are a good mid-major team that can 'get up' for a top tiered program but those games were so few and far between. Once they hit the heart of their conference schedule they are more likely to fold than rise above the competition.

So basically Stevens is going to be facing tougher conference foes after signing a larger contract thus the added pressure to win at a school that has facilities that are pushing 100 years old (Hinkle was built in 1928 and looks like the old Field House). He should have taken the money and gone to UCLA.

Bad move on his part.

While I see most of the points you are getting at, what's to say that once he gets to UCLA he isn't out of a job in a year or two if he can't live up to their expectations? I think he has a better chance at remaining employed if he struggles with Butler in the Big East as opposed to struggling his first year at UCLA. He has a history with Butler, he doesn't have that with UCLA. I think his job security is better at Butler regardless of the difficulties joining the Big East may bring.