Why not bring the block every time?

[JCinthePowerI]

With new punt formation, why not bring 5 right up the middle and try to block the punt every single time? This would certainly make faking a punt and running almost impossible, but also would make any sort of high snap or mild bobble a very blockable or rushed punt.

 

[clim]

Yes yes yes. Need to leave a couple in coverage for the pass but bring some guys every freakin time.

 

[bitmap]

We talked about this at work yesterday a little. The consensus was it is better to have a roughing the kicker penalty occasionally then having to watch a punter run 20 yards for a first down. Penalties certainly hurt but there is some logic behind this.

Penalties happen randomly while fake punts happen strategically. The number of roughing penalties that change the outcome of games will be less than the number of fake punts that do.

There also is the chance that we actually see more big returns even though the yards per return may go down. Sounds counter intuitive but bad punts may be more fieldable because there will be less people in coverage.

The covermen heading down the field will have their backs turned to the punter. Simply set a "tendency" of always having the punter run forward on kicks that aren't fielded. Opposing teams will pick this kind of thing up on film and may sprint farther down field trying to down the ball closer to the goal line. If the punt is actually short they may end up overshooting the return man. This works at home where crowd noise can mask the sound of the ball being kicked. It is a case of where being predictable is really being unpredictable.

 

[Calculator]

With new punt formation, why not bring 5 right up the middle and try to block the punt every single time? This would certainly make faking a punt and running almost impossible, but also would make any sort of high snap or mild bobble a very blockable or rushed punt.

Don't you think some coach will figure out how to run a middle screen off of that?

 

[ssckelley]

Don't you think some coach will figure out how to run a middle screen off of that?

You hit the nail on the head, a big reason why Iowa gets burned is because they do the same thing over and over. Coaches review the tapes to look for things like this to exploit. I am sure MSU seen how Iowa was able to run 2 punt returns for touchdowns against W Michigan and designed that fake punt play. A big reason why some of us get down on the coaching staff is because they get predictable and when the average fan can sit at home and know what plays are being run I am sure people that get paid to do it can as well.

 

[Eda]

We talked about this at work yesterday a little. The consensus was it is better to have a roughing the kicker penalty occasionally then having to watch a punter run 20 yards for a first down. Penalties certainly hurt but there is some logic behind this.

Penalties happen randomly while fake punts happen strategically. The number of roughing penalties that change the outcome of games will be less than the number of fake punts that do.

There also is the chance that we actually see more big returns even though the yards per return may go down. Sounds counter intuitive but bad punts may be more fieldable because there will be less people in coverage.

The covermen heading down the field will have their backs turned to the punter. Simply set a "tendency" of always having the punter run forward on kicks that aren't fielded. Opposing teams will pick this kind of thing up on film and may sprint farther down field trying to down the ball closer to the goal line. If the punt is actually short they may end up overshooting the return man. This works at home where crowd noise can mask the sound of the ball being kicked. It is a case of where being predictable is really being unpredictable.

Bit, a roughing the punter penalty and punt fake provide the same outcome for the punting team. 15 yds and a first down or fake and run for first down. Either way, we lose the possession.

As for the all out block every time... The offense can just lob a pass over the middle (your two outside guys should be covering the gunners).

Alternate betwee punt safe and block with an occasional return. Break tendencies and keep the offense guessing. Mix up the alignments so as to not give away the call.

 

[blubberhawk]

Bit, a roughing the punter penalty and punt fake provide the same outcome for the punting team. 15 yds and a first down or fake and run for first down. Either way, we lose the possession.

As for the all out block every time... The offense can just lob a pass over the middle (your two outside guys should be covering the gunners).

Alternate betwee punt safe and block with an occasional return. Break tendencies and keep the offense guessing. Mix up the alignments so as to not give away the call.

This whole "fake punt" issue is hilarious. Talk about special teams 101. Our coaching staff will never be able to live this one down, nor should they. Total embarrassment.

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

I simply hope whatever was the issue, is cleared up and doesn't happen again for quite some time. This topic is tough to deal with...and a little sad.

 

[Eda]

This whole "fake punt" issue is hilarious. Talk about special teams 101. Our coaching staff will never be able to live this one down, nor should they. Total embarrassment.

You realize fake punts happen all the time, right? It's certainly tough to take with the frequency it's happened to us... But it does happen against all teams.

 

[HawkinGoferLand]

if our current philosophy is primarily to field the kick, with an actual return a very distant second goal, why do we always seem to set up for a return with most of the guys turning and running down field with the opponent. It always looks like we are begging for a fake. Why not just do punt safe and the field the damn ball via fair catch if warranted?

 

[JCinthePowerI]

Don't you think some coach will figure out how to run a middle screen off of that?

Have one of the five rushers always be ready for the the middle screen. That still leave 4 rushers vs. their 3 man wall.

You've got 6 other defenders still. One will be back to catch the punt. Then play soft bump and run with two of you defenders and take away the inside. Have the other 3 defenders playing zone.

I don't know too many punters who are going to be able to throw a 15-20 strike when they're being rushed by 5 defenders with only 3 blockers.

And if this sort of defense is susceptible to the pass (which I've just laid out why it isn't)... I'd rather force the punter to complete a 20 yard pass with defenders in his face against man to man and zone coverage than have a punter be able to run 20 yards down the field untouched.

 

[blubberhawk]

You realize fake punts happen all the time, right? It's certainly tough to take with the frequency it's happened to us... But it does happen against all teams.

At some point in time, I guess most every team has given up a successful fake punt. I would bet a huge amount of money that you can count the number of teams/coaches who have been victimized by successful fake punts 7 consecutive times, on one finger. A MLB baseball player will hit .450 in a season before any coach ever gives up 7 consecutive, successful fake punts again.

 

[JCinthePowerI]

At some point in time, I guess most every team has given up a successful fake punt. I would bet a huge amount of money that you can count the number of teams/coaches who have been victimized by successful fake punts 6 (or is it 7?) consecutive times, on one finger. A MLB baseball player will hit .450 in a season before any coach ever gives up 6 consecutive, successful fake punts again.

Just to confirm, it was 7 consecutive, successful fake punts.

 

[blubberhawk]

Just to confirm, it was 7 consecutive, successful fake punts.

Thanks. I feel better now.

 

[bitmap]

Bit, a roughing the punter penalty and punt fake provide the same outcome for the punting team. 15 yds and a first down or fake and run for first down. Either way, we lose the possession. ...

Yes, I got that, but the opposing team doesn't choose WHEN a roughing penalty happens. Their punter can put on an Academy Awards worthy performance all he wants but unless he was really hit then it is just a punt.

Strategically there is a difference between running a fake before half time when you are down by two scores or running one in the 4th quarter when the game is close and the clock is running down. Agree w/ you on punt safe in the second scenario. Just get the ball back. Let returns happen based on the situation on the field - that is be opportunistic. As for a bull rush on every punt, not so much. I just think there is much more upside to going for blocks than going for returns.

 

[JCinthePowerI]

Yes, I got that, but the opposing team doesn't choose WHEN a roughing penalty happens. Their punter can put on an Academy Awards worthy performance all he wants but unless he was really hit then it is just a punt.

Strategically there is a difference between running a fake before half time when you are down by two scores or running one in the 4th quarter when the game is close and the clock is running down. Agree w/ you on punt safe in the second scenario. Just get the ball back. Let returns happen based on the situation on the field - that is be opportunistic. As for a bull rush on every punt, not so much. I just think there is much more upside to going for blocks than going for returns.

Plus if you're bringing the block every time in games that means you'd be bringing the block every time in practice. One would think the players would get slightly better than the average player in learning all of the intricacies in avoiding a roughing the kicker penalty. In simple terms, the 5 rushers should get very, very good at not running into the punter.

And the whole, "Running into the punter" is such a ****** pessimistic view point too. Outside of probably blocking more punts in which the opponent executed the snap exchange fairly well.... What about a high snap that causes the punter to take that extra second? What about the bobbled snap that causes the punter to take an extra second? What about drop snaps and snaps over their head? Bringing the block every single time turns these sorts of things into huge plays where as not bringing the block might turn these plays into nothing.

 

[HobbieHawk]

I like it but you all know that Captain Courageous would be "Punt Safe" every goll-durn time.

 

[bphawkeye]

Plus if you're bringing the block every time in games that means you'd be bringing the block every time in practice. One would think the players would get slightly better than the average player in learning all of the intricacies in avoiding a roughing the kicker penalty. In simple terms, the 5 rushers should get very, very good at not running into the punter.

And the whole, "Running into the punter" is such a ****** pessimistic view point too. Outside of probably blocking more punts in which the opponent executed the snap exchange fairly well.... What about a high snap that causes the punter to take that extra second? What about the bobbled snap that causes the punter to take an extra second? What about drop snaps and snaps over their head? Bringing the block every single time turns these sorts of things into huge plays where as not bringing the block might turn these plays into nothing.

Not necessary that they have to practice the punt block every time all day every day to be successful. Film work against the opposition is a must. As I recall - the Minnesota Vikings of the '70s rarely practiced the FG block in practice, but were very successful at blocking FGs and converting some blocks into TDs. They claimed that they watched film and talked about positioning and weak points in the opposition blockers .... blah blah blah - but they took the time to take it seriously. I don't recall even 1 fake FG worked against those Vikings of the '70s. They attacked the weak point and defended against the fake at the strong points, and put a guy or 2 on the opposite side of the "rush side" just in case it was blocked they could make the other team pay dearly with a TD.

bottom line - film work and taking it all seriously - rushing 7 for the sake of rushing 7 for a block will result in nothing but sloppy play and some roughing, and some fakes against anyway ....