Why does everyone assume a production drop off from the C position?
- Thread starter DuffMan
- Start date
OUTofTOWNHAWK
Well-Known Member
Brommer played okay about 25% of the time. Archie....hhhmmm not so much. I think Brommer could be an okay player but behind him is not good. I see a bad year coming up.
Firehawk11
Well-Known Member
Why can't we play Basabe at some 5? He is a excellent offensive rebounder. He is deadly from 5ft and closer. I think Mel playing some 5 frees up White for more minutes. It will not take too long for our top offensive unit to be Cartwright, Gatens, Marble, White, Basabe. Mel is two inches taller than Cole. I know Mel will give up some pounds down low. And I know it is not Mel's natural position. Brommer, McCabe, Olaseni all in the mix too. We can improve at the 5 position. White is going to demand double teams when he takes ball to the rack. White is a much better passer than Mel. Mel could not pass out of the double last year. Somewhere around 9 assists and 60 turnovers. Mel could benefit from drop off pass from White. They are going to be a tough combo to guard. Each have strengths the other doesn't.
Sometimes I wonder if people actually watched the Hawks last year. Mel is a garbage scorer. His butters his bread by timing misses and getting to the rack without guys on him. He is not a post-type scorer.
I agree that your list of starters is a likely group. However, I also believe that group will get destroyed down low. And no, teams are not going to double White. When he gets against B1G talent, he will have difficulty getting around the quicker forwards and will be relegated to shooting 10 footers with a guy in his face. The rest of the B1G will be just fine with that. All they will have to do is stay in front of White and make sure Basabe is boxed out. Mel will get frustrated and disappear like he did at the end of the season or pick up a bunch of over the back fouls.
The only real hope for this year is if somehow Iowa can get hot from the outside and force the defense to the perimeter. If that happens, things will open up inside for White and Mel.
AZHAWKFAN1
Well-Known Member
Many good points made. Cole's leadership, 1, effort, 2, will be missed imo. I look for Brommer to have a good year and Archie to fall to no. 3 by midseason. I think Marble and May will be much improved/confident.
hawkIhoops
Well-Known Member
Wow, I may need to take my temperature, but this is the 2nd or 3rd post of CaarHawk's that I agree with 100%. Basabe, even in the PTL, gets his points off misses, run outs and shooting over lesser players (height and talent). He does not have a big ten post game and I highly doubt he will ever develop one.
Our roster, as comprised today, is more closely aligned with MO Valley teams than big ten teams. I want to be optimistic about the future, but I fear this will be another season of building for next year. Sure we return all but Cole, but we aren't returning parts of equal value to the top 6-7 teams in the conference and we graded out, what, 9th in the conference for our recruiting class?
Our roster, as comprised today, is more closely aligned with MO Valley teams than big ten teams. I want to be optimistic about the future, but I fear this will be another season of building for next year. Sure we return all but Cole, but we aren't returning parts of equal value to the top 6-7 teams in the conference and we graded out, what, 9th in the conference for our recruiting class?
Yes Mel takes advantage of garbage opportunities, but he also has a solid face up offensive game from 10-15 feet. He's reportedly worked hard over the summer on a midrange face up jumper, and if he can hit that shot consistently it will improve his scoring numbers consistently.
I would not be suprised to see 15 and 10 out of Mel this year.
I would not be suprised to see 15 and 10 out of Mel this year.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
I'm not going to sit here and try to say that Iowa was some great rebounding team. Yet even though they had a DISMAL record, they still out rebounded their opponents 35 per game to 33.7 per game. Losing a total of 6 rebound per game in Cole will easily be replaced. I would make a guess that every single team in the Big Ten is losing more rebounds per game than Iowa is.
Bottom line is, even though we were undersized last year, we still were middle of the Big Ten in rebounding percentage (6th). Will certain teams have better down low presence? Sure they will, but we will not be getting destroyed down low.
SirJamaLot
Well-Known Member
Cole's leadership quailties (toughness and effort) will be missed more than his bb talent, great kid who played hard and led by example. The center position is by far the weakest position for the Hawks, If Fran can sign Woodbury, then he, Meyer, and Olaseni will give us good inside players for years to come.
Brommer will start, Archie will fill in until Olaseni is ready to contribute about Jan.
Brommer will start, Archie will fill in until Olaseni is ready to contribute about Jan.
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Towards the end of last year Cole played much better than his 8 points 6 rebounds would indicate for the year. This was also when Iowa played some really competitive games. Cole also took pressure off Melsahn by battling inside. With Melsahn having a tendancy to get out of position on defense and pick up early fouls we can't have him also guarding another teams down low presence. I would say over the last 10 games that Cole was our best post player (note I didn't say most talented).
We need an actual center when we place against decent teams. Thus Brommer will have to improve greatly and stay on the court to take that pressure off of Melsahn. Plus we need some quality minutes from Olesani and Archie this year much more than the combo of Brommer and Archie gave us last year.
I agree that we will likely see a combo of either Basabe/White or Basabe/McCabe but that will only be for short bursts to end a half or against teams that go small.
We need an actual center when we place against decent teams. Thus Brommer will have to improve greatly and stay on the court to take that pressure off of Melsahn. Plus we need some quality minutes from Olesani and Archie this year much more than the combo of Brommer and Archie gave us last year.
I agree that we will likely see a combo of either Basabe/White or Basabe/McCabe but that will only be for short bursts to end a half or against teams that go small.
Firehawk11
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure we are saying the same thing. Mel is a garbage scorer. But he is pretty darn good at it, exactly my point. Put someone like white, who has a better shot, longer arms, quicker jump and better passer at the four. Defenders will have to slide down on him or he will get to he rack. Mel will get even more garbage playing along with White. I'm not saying our inside defense will not struggle obviously they will. We have been dealing with that for the last 5 years. I'm saying we will be better offensively this year over last in the middle. PS: I watched everygame that was televised and or watched them at Carver.
Yeah, I just don't see White getting to the rack as easily as you do in his first year. I think he will need a year of development before he can do that against B1G defenses. I see huge upside with him. I just think it isn't going to happen quite yet.
I just see teams packing it in and playing zone and daring the Hawks to beat them from the outside.
I just see teams packing it in and playing zone and daring the Hawks to beat them from the outside.
jacknicholson
Well-Known Member
Have to agree with this. Brommer did show glimpses of what he is capable of last year, for instance at Ohio State against Sullinger. He did have problems with acquiring fouls quickly, but that probably was due to coaching strategy, having him jump out to harass the guards 20/30 feet from the basket, leaving him seriously out of position, among much quicker players. The strategy failed to work on most occasions.
The one thing I really liked about Brommer is his attitude under the basket. He WILL put the opponent on the floor for daring to attempt to take it to the basket.
With improved footwork, patience on offense, and shooting at least 500 free throws a day from now on, he will be satisfactory. It's all good.....
Archie has had his moments, just not at the free throw line, again he should be shooting at least 500 free throws a day from now on. Excuse the preposition at the end of the sentence. Alas.....
Archie can be good on defense, if he calms down and improves his footwork, aspects that more playing time can solve. Catch 22 all over again. He can score if he gets the ball in position and doesn't have to create his shot. He will certainly help with rebounding and D if in position. And his five fouls will help. At least that is one advantage we have on defense. We have 15 fouls to use, creating fear in the hearts of the despicable opponents. If we use the fouls in a manly manner, again putting the opponent on the floor, things could be OK.
Just my
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I don't see how anyone can say they are not worried about Brommer at all.
Yes he showed flashes of potential and an ability to make some nice moves around the basket that I didn't think he could. However, more often he was playing rushed, had difficulty finishing and got into major foul problems. Plus his free throws are not good.
Yes he showed flashes of potential and an ability to make some nice moves around the basket that I didn't think he could. However, more often he was playing rushed, had difficulty finishing and got into major foul problems. Plus his free throws are not good.
sportstalent
Well-Known Member
In Brommer's defense and I have been quoted as saying he was "a waste of a scholarship" he really didn't have too much direction his first two years on campus. Had all the defections not taken place by all rights he should have been redshirted. In his first two years he played too much in a hurry like he was trying to prove himself. It is kind of a shame that he wasn't after seeing how he developed under the current staff in one whole offseason. I don't expect Brommer to be one of our worst worries, unless he continues at the World Record pace for fouls per second.
Brommer is the ideal backup, but he is most likely going to start the season as the starter. Personally, I would like Olaseni to start because of his defensive abilities and his athleticism. People come to the consensus that Olaseni will not be ready until January, I thought the same about Basabe heading into the season last year, but he grew leaps and bounds as the season went on. Basabe will have a good season, maybe not great, but he has to stay out of foul trouble as there is little depth behind him.
Basabe will be helped with Brommer playing hard and being surrounded by better overall shooting. It became easy to defend him when everyone in the building knew he was getting the ball when Bryce drove the lane...that is what opened up things for Cole his last few games in his Hawkeye uniform. Look for Marble to attack the basket a lot more and that will help everyone as well.
Brommer is the ideal backup, but he is most likely going to start the season as the starter. Personally, I would like Olaseni to start because of his defensive abilities and his athleticism. People come to the consensus that Olaseni will not be ready until January, I thought the same about Basabe heading into the season last year, but he grew leaps and bounds as the season went on. Basabe will have a good season, maybe not great, but he has to stay out of foul trouble as there is little depth behind him.
Basabe will be helped with Brommer playing hard and being surrounded by better overall shooting. It became easy to defend him when everyone in the building knew he was getting the ball when Bryce drove the lane...that is what opened up things for Cole his last few games in his Hawkeye uniform. Look for Marble to attack the basket a lot more and that will help everyone as well.
jacknicholson
Well-Known Member
More playing time did help Brommer considerably, Sportstalent. Under Lick he had absolutely no time to develop in the tedious slowdown style, passing the ball around the perimeter for 30 seconds every possession, while Andrew twiddled his thumbs under the basket his minute or two every other game. Under Fran's direction he has done well, and should continue to improve, perhaps as well as Cole did. That would be a bonus.
You might be right about Olaseni starting, getting a lot of playing time experience in the preconference season. He seems very athletic and adept at shot blocking in the PTL video, and will help considerably on D this year, protecting the basket while Fran's press harasses the opponents into turnover after turnover. At least that is the formula I would like to see. Brommer might be better and more effective coming off the bench, avoiding early fouls due to the increased pressure of playing a starting role.
All that said, I think he will be the man to start this year, he might be the starting Center in Fran's plan.
You might be right about Olaseni starting, getting a lot of playing time experience in the preconference season. He seems very athletic and adept at shot blocking in the PTL video, and will help considerably on D this year, protecting the basket while Fran's press harasses the opponents into turnover after turnover. At least that is the formula I would like to see. Brommer might be better and more effective coming off the bench, avoiding early fouls due to the increased pressure of playing a starting role.
All that said, I think he will be the man to start this year, he might be the starting Center in Fran's plan.
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