Why does everyone assume a production drop off from the C position?

DuffMan

DuffMan

Well-Known Member
Seriously I don't get it. Some of you guys act like Cole was an all world center. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed his career and he's a great hawk, but he only averaged 8pts 6reb in about 25 min a game last year.

To put that in perspective combined Brommer and Archie averaged 5pts and 5rebs in about 20 min a game last year. That's not a very big drop off.

Provided Brommer can stay out of foul trouble and play 20+ min per game I don't think we are going to see a significant drop off in production from the center position.
 
Guards Guards and more Guards. Which is why Hubbard leaving is killer. A guard who could score in the lane is something we don't have other than an occasional Marble drive.
 
Isn't it reasonable to assume that our guard play will improve this year? Everyone is a year older which collectively means there will be improvement.
 
Hawkeye11en1 said:
Guards Guards and more Guards. Which is why Hubbard leaving is killer. A guard who could score in the lane is something we don't have other than an occasional Marble drive.
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Cartwright can get to the rack. Marble can put it on the floor. By all accounts White can get to the rim also.
 
DuffMan said:
Seriously I don't get it. Some of you guys act like Cole was an all world center. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed his career and he's a great hawk, but he only averaged 8pts 6reb in about 25 min a game last year.

To put that in perspective combined Brommer and Archie averaged 5pts and 5rebs in about 20 min a game last year. That's not a very big drop off.

Provided Brommer can stay out of foul trouble and play 20+ min per game I don't think we are going to see a significant drop off in production from the center position.
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Classic example of using stats to reach a bad conclusion.
True, 8 and 6 versus 5 and 5 doesn't seem like much but the chances of being a good defensive and rebounding team are WAY lower.
 
Basabe will be the man in the paint, and I think Brommer could be able to pick up the slack for Cole's absence. Archie... Well, let's just say that I will take any production from him as a bonus, unless he improves alot this off-season. Unless I missed it, I haven't heard much indicating that he has.

So in the end, I agree with the OP that we won't be any worse off in the paint next year than we were a year ago. Cole will be missed, but I have to assume improvement from Basabe and Brommer, particularly the ability to stay out of foul trouble. Or *hope* there is improvement anyway.

Foul trouble or injuries, and we could be in a world of hurt, though.
 
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DuffMan said:
Isn't it reasonable to assume that our guard play will improve this year? Everyone is a year older which collectively means there will be improvement.
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I really don't think so, to be honest. But to be fair, I really don't think they have every played to their potential. So if they end up doing that, I guess we could see some improvement.
 
oroko said:
Classic example of using stats to reach a bad conclusion.
True, 8 and 6 versus 5 and 5 doesn't seem like much but the chances of being a good defensive and rebounding team are WAY lower.
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Well it would be closer to 8 and 6 versus 6 and 6 if you account for the difference in minutes played.

Other than Brommer picking up cheap hedging fouls on pick and rolls I haven't heard too many people disparage his defense, and the same goes for Archie. I think they are both capable defensive centers, as capable as Cole was regardless.
 
I think Broms showed flashes of being a pretty good player last year. I think he will be a rather nice surprize this coming season.(at least I hope so). I also think it is quite reasonable to assume our guard play will be improved over last year.
 
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DuffMan said:
Seriously I don't get it. Some of you guys act like Cole was an all world center. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed his career and he's a great hawk, but he only averaged 8pts 6reb in about 25 min a game last year.

To put that in perspective combined Brommer and Archie averaged 5pts and 5rebs in about 20 min a game last year. That's not a very big drop off.

Provided Brommer can stay out of foul trouble and play 20+ min per game I don't think we are going to see a significant drop off in production from the center position.
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I agree. I made pretty much the same point in a prior thread. I loved Coles heart but he was too short to play the C position at a D1 level. Brommer / Archie / McCabe and Olaseni (in that order) will be able to manage the C position this year.
 
DuffMan said:
Seriously I don't get it. Some of you guys act like Cole was an all world center. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed his career and he's a great hawk, but he only averaged 8pts 6reb in about 25 min a game last year.

To put that in perspective combined Brommer and Archie averaged 5pts and 5rebs in about 20 min a game last year. That's not a very big drop off.

Provided Brommer can stay out of foul trouble and play 20+ min per game I don't think we are going to see a significant drop off in production from the center position.
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I understand what you are trying to say but everyone who watched the hawks last year knows Cole >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brommer + Archie

The big difference is Brommer and Archie will be in foul trouble constantly
 
busabus114 said:
I understand what you are trying to say but everyone who watched the hawks last year knows Cole >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brommer + Archie

The big difference is Brommer and Archie will be in foul trouble constantly
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I'm going to have to agree with this. I don't think we'll see much drop off in the defensive aspect, as Cole was often under-sized compared to who he was guarding and just wasn't a great defender, but Jaryd did start to show a decent offensive game which is where we will probably notice the drop off, especially when Archie is in. I think Brommer's biggest obstacle is himself, he's just in his own head too much and just needs to settle down, slow it down a notch at times and let the game come to him (while not being overly aggressive, of course).
 
The only real foul trouble Brommer has always gotten in is a result of the way he hedges on screens 30 feet from the basket. If Fran can't get him to quit doing that, we have much bigger problems. The rest of Brommers game looked pretty good to me last season. While we will miss Coles leadership, I think Brommer can equal or better Coles production numbers.
 
sioux34 said:
The only real foul trouble Brommer has always gotten in is a result of the way he hedges on screens 30 feet from the basket. If Fran can't get him to quit doing that, we have much bigger problems. The rest of Brommers game looked pretty good to me last season. While we will miss Coles leadership, I think Brommer can equal or better Coles production numbers.
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You wouldn't think it would be too tough to correct that, right? Seems pretty simple. Fran will correct it I hope.

He showed some awesome flashes, but then there were times when he was non-existent it seemed while racking up fouls. Consistency will be huge (obviously).

I remain optimistic and will until I see otherwise.
 
I agree with the Brommer supporters in this thread. Coach Fran has said that he needed to get Brommer more minutes last year so he could get into some kind of flow. If he can just slow down he has shown decent moves around the hoop. The production on a per minute basis was slightly better for Cole last year. With a years experience, providing Brommer is healthy, Cole's numbers can be equaled or even exceeded. What will be lost is Cole's leadership.
 
Cole was a workhorse night in and night out. For the most part he stayed out of foul trouble and made countless hustle plays that didn't show up on the stat sheet. Brommer has shown a knack for mental lapses resulting in awful fouls 20 feet from the basket and an inability to finish down low. Archie has shown, well, nothing and Olaseni is a wild card. Olaseni is the best athlete of the 3 and with some mentoring from Fran and Co., could be a bit of a surprise by the time conference play gets here.

Agree that all is not lost, but Cole brought it every game and that is hard to replace.
 
Cole was undersized and often over-powered. He was also waaaayyyyyy better than either of the back-ups.

That is the state of Iowa Basketball.

Someone in another thread was touting Iowa's depth based on the fact that fans don't expect Ogelsby to play as much. Well, look at PG and Center and you will get a different perspective on depth.
 
DuffMan said:
Seriously I don't get it. Some of you guys act like Cole was an all world center. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed his career and he's a great hawk, but he only averaged 8pts 6reb in about 25 min a game last year.

To put that in perspective combined Brommer and Archie averaged 5pts and 5rebs in about 20 min a game last year. That's not a very big drop off.

Provided Brommer can stay out of foul trouble and play 20+ min per game I don't think we are going to see a significant drop off in production from the center position.
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You are sorta right. However JC in the last 10 games averaged almost 12 points and 8 rebounds when he finally got it going. His leadership and character will soley be missed. Given the state of scholly's Id' love for him to come back one more year, red-shirt one of the other bigs and allow him to go out with a winning record.
 
I'm not worried about A Broms at all. Needs to improve his free throw shooting though.
 
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