Who Was Your Favorite Hawkeye that Things Didn't Work Out in Playing Time
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Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
Joey Range, excellent call.
No one has ever confirmed to me whether or not he was Parry's son (early 1980's Illinois guard). Joey was from Illinois and it's in the right age range so I've always assumed he was.
Then again I always assumed Florida's Chandler Parsons was Christian Laettner's kid. Eerie similarities and again, the right age range. Laettner may have had more one running around from his Duke years.
WestCoastHawk
Well-Known Member
Brennan Cougil
Well there is Connie Hawkins whose playing time never got started. He was at Iowa as a freshman when slightly implicated but not guilty in a point shaving scandal. But he was such a great bball player he was elected into the Naismith Hall of Fame.
My main point is that the hawks were just a couple of years from 2 NCAA Final Four appearances when Hawkins came to Iowa. If he could have been great at Iowa he would have been a JR or SR on the 1964 team was a very good team that was ranked at times, beat #1 UCLA in Chicago, and Hawkins could have made this team a championship level team. Maybe NCAA championship level.
College and investigation into point-shaving[edit]
During Hawkins' freshman year at Iowa, he was a victim of the hysteria surrounding a point-shaving scandal that had started in New York City. Hawkins' name surfaced in an interview conducted with an individual who was involved in the scandal. While some of the conspirators and characters involved were known to or knew Hawkins, none – including the New York attorney at the center of the scandal, Jack Molinas – had ever sought to involve Hawkins in the conspiracy. Hawkins had borrowed $200 from Molinas for school expenses, which his brother Fred repaid before the scandal broke in 1961.[2] The scandal became known as the 1961 college basketball gambling scandal.
Despite the fact that Hawkins could not have been involved in point-shaving (as a freshman, due to NCAA rules of the time, he was ineligible to participate in varsity-level athletics), he was kept from seeking legal counsel while being grilled by New York City detectives who were investigating the scandal.[3]
Expulsion from Iowa and ABL/Globetrotter/ABA years[edit]
As a result of the investigation, despite never being arrested or indicted, Hawkins was expelled from Iowa. He was effectively blackballed from the college ranks; no NCAA or NAIA school would offer him a scholarship. NBA commissioner J. Walter Kennedy let it be known that he would not approve any contract for Hawkins to play in the league. At the time, the NBA had a policy barring players who were even remotely involved with point-shaving scandals. As a result, when his class was eligible for the draft in 1964, no team selected him. He went undrafted in 1965 as well before being formally banned from the league in 1966.[2][4]
High school[edit]
Hawkins did not play much until his junior year at Boys High. Hawkins was All-City first team as a junior as Boys went undefeated and won New York's Public Schools Athletic League (PSAL) title in 1959. During his senior year he averaged 25.5 points per game, including one game in which he scored 60, and Boys again went undefeated and won the 1960 PSAL title. Hawkins then signed a scholarship offer to play at the University of Iowa
My main point is that the hawks were just a couple of years from 2 NCAA Final Four appearances when Hawkins came to Iowa. If he could have been great at Iowa he would have been a JR or SR on the 1964 team was a very good team that was ranked at times, beat #1 UCLA in Chicago, and Hawkins could have made this team a championship level team. Maybe NCAA championship level.
College and investigation into point-shaving[edit]
During Hawkins' freshman year at Iowa, he was a victim of the hysteria surrounding a point-shaving scandal that had started in New York City. Hawkins' name surfaced in an interview conducted with an individual who was involved in the scandal. While some of the conspirators and characters involved were known to or knew Hawkins, none – including the New York attorney at the center of the scandal, Jack Molinas – had ever sought to involve Hawkins in the conspiracy. Hawkins had borrowed $200 from Molinas for school expenses, which his brother Fred repaid before the scandal broke in 1961.[2] The scandal became known as the 1961 college basketball gambling scandal.
Despite the fact that Hawkins could not have been involved in point-shaving (as a freshman, due to NCAA rules of the time, he was ineligible to participate in varsity-level athletics), he was kept from seeking legal counsel while being grilled by New York City detectives who were investigating the scandal.[3]
Expulsion from Iowa and ABL/Globetrotter/ABA years[edit]
As a result of the investigation, despite never being arrested or indicted, Hawkins was expelled from Iowa. He was effectively blackballed from the college ranks; no NCAA or NAIA school would offer him a scholarship. NBA commissioner J. Walter Kennedy let it be known that he would not approve any contract for Hawkins to play in the league. At the time, the NBA had a policy barring players who were even remotely involved with point-shaving scandals. As a result, when his class was eligible for the draft in 1964, no team selected him. He went undrafted in 1965 as well before being formally banned from the league in 1966.[2][4]
High school[edit]
Hawkins did not play much until his junior year at Boys High. Hawkins was All-City first team as a junior as Boys went undefeated and won New York's Public Schools Athletic League (PSAL) title in 1959. During his senior year he averaged 25.5 points per game, including one game in which he scored 60, and Boys again went undefeated and won the 1960 PSAL title. Hawkins then signed a scholarship offer to play at the University of Iowa
Some good picks, Joey Range and Ray Thompson for sure.
For me though its Connie Hawkins, my dad use to take me to the old courts in the fieldhouse and armory and watch him scrimmage, I had never seen anything like him and as an 11 year old this left a lasting impression.
For me though its Connie Hawkins, my dad use to take me to the old courts in the fieldhouse and armory and watch him scrimmage, I had never seen anything like him and as an 11 year old this left a lasting impression.
Thawki
Well-Known Member
I hate to be the one to say this, but if you think Ingram and Garner would have been anything better than average players, and that is being generous, you really don’t know much about basketball.
Thawki
Well-Known Member
DING, DING, DING, DING, DING, DING DING!!!!!!! We have a winner!!!!!
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
No you don't hate it. You've disliked my ass since I started posting on here.
A healthy Ingram would have been able to showcase his athletic ability in Mr. Davis's system and was certainly better than Jay Webb or Brig Tubbs or anyone else we had available that season at that position.
Garner, on athletic ability alone, would have been an upgrade over Troy Skinner, despite his many limitations.
I saw those teams play too.
1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
Agreed. Ingram had a big ten body - but hard to do a lot on one leg.
Garner was like Kevin Smith version 1 - Quick as hell, but raw offensively. I remember seeing Garner air ball a free throw. Not short, but wide right. Ugly. But he may have been able to develop into a more reliable PG option once he learned to play in control.
If I recall, Garner transferred to Oral Roberts along with Ray Thompson.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
Ingram red shirted in his 1987-88 transfer year but frequently went up against Ed Horton in practice and Horton mentioned back then how much it helped improve his game.
Garner was the quickest Hawkeye I've ever seen with the ball, bar none and that includes Ronnie Lester. With no outside shooting threat whatsoever defenders still couldn't stay in front of him. But like a fastball pitcher with no curve or change up, Garner could never develop a speed other than full throttle. Defenders learned how to funnel him into trouble. Garner also tried too many passes with a Globetrotters degree of difficulty amd like you said was a poor free throw shooter. His prep career at Milwaukee Washington was nothing short of legendary.
Perhaps if Lester had chosen to play at a red line pace he would have been even quicker. But he wouldn't have had one tenth the college career he had either.
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
In addition to being Big 10's second leading rebounder one season, Clay Hargrave was also one of the nicest guys you could ever meet.
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
It wasn't BS. I remember asking a former honcho with UI Foundation WTH happened with Ray Thompson, His answer: "Ed Horton happened to Ray Thompson". Long and short of it was Ed could handle the high life, Ray couldn't.
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
As a prep at Elgin Larkin HS, Tree dominated, and damn near got that team "downstate" by himself. I was always kind of surprised Tree didn't have a big college career.
Thawki
Well-Known Member
Are you one of those people that imagines a slight or an insult where none exists? I don’t recall ever seeing your name before responding to this thread? For you to think I have disliked you since you first posted here is ludicrous.
As for Garner, I could be wrong. But I don’t think so. For Ingram and Garner, being better than Jay Webb/Brig Tubbs or Troy Skinner doesn’t mean they were anything above below average. As one poster pointed out, Garner couldn’t shoot or harness his speed, and evidently he thought he was a better passer than he was. Since Ingram wasn’t healthy, and apparently partied to much to contribute, I guess I don’t feel the need to debate how either of them would have changed the trajectory of Iowa basketball.
What were Garner’s stats at Oral Roberts? I can’t seem to find them. Ingram was never a factor for Iowa so I guess I don’t see any reason to discuss him as someone that might have made a difference in the season you referenced.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
I was the poster who pointed out Garner's deficiencies, twice in this thread alone. But had kept his head on straight he would have been a nice drive and dish compliment to a team that had Thompson and James Moses and would soon have Acie Earl and Chris Street. He also had the potential to be an outstanding defensive point guard.
I know all about Ingram's reputation for partying. I had him in a night class-when he showed up (a NIGHT CLASS!!). Partying and drug and alcohol use was rampant during that era and it also nearly swallowed up Acie Earl's Iowa career as well. Davis suspended him for six games shortly after Thompson and Garner were declared academically ineligible and Earl had several issues the next year as well (had to come off the bench for Temple, Iowa State, and the final three weeks of the season IIRC because he was late for practice or team meetings)
The real killer, of course, was losing Thompson. He was on track to be first or second team all B1G as a sophomore. Would have been one of Iowa's all time greats.
I'll talk that era of Iowa basketball with you or anyone else every time. You seem to know your stuff as well. Saying, or even implying, that I don't know much about that era of Iowa basketball stung because I cherish those days. I would love to have another era of Iowa basketball to cherish
WinOneThisCentury
Well-Known Member
Agreed. I remember Connie Hawkins. I once watched him chase down a loose ball going out of bounds. Obvious the ball is moving away from him quickly, but he reached out with one hand and grabbed it like a baseball. No cupping or scooping...he grabbed it straight hand palm out. I've never seen anyone do that?
He was an athletic freak.
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
No he was great and got a lot of playing time. My favorite Hawk ever.
Connie Hawkins would have to be toward the top of this list too. He was Dr. J before there was a Dr. J.
