Who thought that the '02 DL was going to be money?

H

homerHAWKeye777

Well-Known Member
- We were starting Babs who had little to no prior game experience on D ... and, on top of that, he was coming off of injury.

- Our only returning starter, Cole, was switching positions from DE to DT. Thus, was it a lay-up for him to make a lot of noise there?

- Hodges and Clauss had prior experience ... but neither had started before (or, at least, not much).

- We had a promising back-up guy on the DL by the name of Roth ... but he was converted from LB and he was undersized, but he had only seen prior action on special teams.

Given the above scenario ... how in the world did that DL end up being as good as it was? If you think about it, on paper, it seems pretty incredible that they ended up as good against the run as they ended up becoming. On paper, the group only seemed to be about 5 deep ... if we were lucky. Of course, we also managed to give DRob some backup reps too. However, how much action would he have seen had we not blown away so many squads that year?

Now, how deep is our '11 DL? We have Daniels, Binns, Daniel, Bigach, Davis, Alvis, and Forgy, among possibly others. Why can't the '11 DL end up surprising folks and end up having a great season? I frankly believe that the '11 DL will end up being A LOT better than most folks anticipate .... just wait and see!
 
Homer - I don't think this d-line will get tossed around like the 2005 d-line did, but that is another prime example of a turned over d-line (though at least this year we have Binns back). However, at the end of the day, if the o-line is sick and Coker stays upright, the defense will be fine because O'Keefe will play keep away all day and protect Norm like he has done for several years in the past. Additionally, I think we'll have 6 guys in the rotation so we should be okay for games like NU where they run close to 50 plays a half against us.
 
Cut and paste from the other thread...

On defense, it comes down to two positions in my opinion. We need a DT to step up and play next to Mike Daniels and we need a safety to step in and play well. I believe Hyde ends up at safety. BJ Lowery is ready to be special at corner. Unlike some people, I'm not concerned with LB. Health is a concern as always, but the starters look very solid and all have SPEED.. Binns and Daniel are seniors...and I expect big things from them.

I really think the biggest surprise is going to be at that DT position. Two guys: Davis and Cooper, with Davis just absolutely being disruptive with size and power. I'm excited to see this as they wanted to pull his redshirt last year. If you remember, we had a few pretty good tackles last year...why pull his redshirt...depth and to spell someone? I think he may be the best kept secret Norm has right now next to Lowery.

I can't wait for this season to play out.
 
homerHAWKeye777 said:
- We were starting Babs who had little to no prior game experience on D ... and, on top of that, he was coming off of injury.

- Our only returning starter, Cole, was switching positions from DE to DT. Thus, was it a lay-up for him to make a lot of noise there?

- Hodges and Clauss had prior experience ... but neither had started before (or, at least, not much).

- We had a promising back-up guy on the DL by the name of Roth ... but he was converted from LB and he was undersized, but he had only seen prior action on special teams.

Given the above scenario ... how in the world did that DL end up being as good as it was? If you think about it, on paper, it seems pretty incredible that they ended up as good against the run as they ended up becoming. On paper, the group only seemed to be about 5 deep ... if we were lucky. Of course, we also managed to give DRob some backup reps too. However, how much action would he have seen had we not blown away so many squads that year?

Now, how deep is our '11 DL? We have Daniels, Binns, Daniel, Bigach, Davis, Alvis, and Forgy, among possibly others. Why can't the '11 DL end up surprising folks and end up having a great season? I frankly believe that the '11 DL will end up being A LOT better than most folks anticipate .... just wait and see!
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They could surprise either way - positive or negative, we just don't know. Daniels & Binns are really the only two guys in the group you list that are known quantities. We don't know how any of those other guys will perform as every down players...that's why we'll all be watching the games.

We do have a good coaching staff, good S&C, and a proven record with producing some outstanding DL's, but I'm reserving judgement until I see them in action, cuz you just never know. With the exception of Daniels & Binns, they are all just names on the depth chart to me.
 
okeefe4prez said:
Homer - I don't think this d-line will get tossed around like the 2005 d-line did, but that is another prime example of a turned over d-line (though at least this year we have Binns back).
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The 2005 situation is what I have been looking at as the nearest comparison for this year, but even this year's DL has Binns and Daniels back. Daniels was arguably the most disruptive force on Iowa's DL last year.

That 2005 Iowa defense was still:

-29th in rushing defense
-22nd in scoring defense

That group was not great against the pass, and it wasn't a function of an impenetrable run defense. Now, the 2005 group had Hodges and Greenway behind them, but I think Neilsen is the 2nd best LEO of the KF era, and Morris is going to be exponentially better this year.

Iowa's offense in 2005 averaged 30.00/ppg, something I think this offense can do...it was one of the better KOK offerings.

If Iowa could get 2005-like production in the scoring defense department and rushing defense department from this year's group, I think 8 wins is the minimum.
 
I guess the Dline could become a strength although I don't see them becoming anywhere near as good as the 2002 addition. What made the 2002 good was the DTs were great against the run and really plugged things up. From what I saw of Carl Davis in the spring he didn't get a lot of leverage to play the run so that will have to greatly improve. The second thing that made the 2002 great was bringing in Roth on passing downs to have that speed off the edge. I don't see anybody close to that on the roster right now. Of the candidates at DE you have Binns, Daniel and Alvis who all could be solid but don't have the same set of skills that Roth had.

I think they could be solid but I don't see a lot of playmakers like in 2002.
 
One aspect where the 2005 D was not that great was takeaways...they were 101 in the nation with just 16, while the offense had a very good 17 turnovers, which was the 14th best mark in the nation...Tate was 22/7 TD/INT that year, which is very good.
 
The 2002 defense was one of the best run stopping defenses for Iowa in the modern era. I don't see that happening this year.
 
JonDMiller said:
Now, the 2005 group had Hodges and Greenway behind them, but I think Neilsen is the 2nd best LEO of the KF era, and Morris is going to be exponentially better this year.
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Did you forget about Edds or do you think that Nielsen has shown more in half a season than what Edds showed in 3?

I have high hopes for Nielsen, but I don't think there is any way you can put him ahead of Edds yet.
 
JonDMiller said:
Babineaux was not a factor on the 2002 DL
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WTF?

2002 Honors - - Coaches Appreciation Award, defense . . . key member of defense that ranked fifth in the nation in rushing defense (81.9) . . . 2002 - - started first 11 games at defensive end before missing win at Minnesota due to a death in the family . . . returned to starting line-up vs. USC in Orange Bowl
 
PJHawk said:
WTF?

2002 Honors - - Coaches Appreciation Award, defense . . . key member of defense that ranked fifth in the nation in rushing defense (81.9) . . . 2002 - - started first 11 games at defensive end before missing win at Minnesota due to a death in the family . . . returned to starting line-up vs. USC in Orange Bowl
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Thanks for calling Jon out on that one. I hadn't gotten a chance to respond in time.

Maybe Jon doesn't think that starting defensive ends are very important?
 
Raziel said:
Did you forget about Edds or do you think that Nielsen has shown more in half a season than what Edds showed in 3?

I have high hopes for Nielsen, but I don't think there is any way you can put him ahead of Edds yet.
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Raziel -

No, I believe that Jon was suggesting that Edds was our #1 LEO and that Nielsen is playing at a level that is on par with being our #2 LEO.

At this juncture, I'm not certain that I'd put Nielsen ahead of Steen quite yet. However, that said, I think that Nielsen will end up being good enough to be our #2 LEO.
 
HawkeyeShane said:
Maybe he got his years mixed up...Jon!?!? :D
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If I had my bet ... Jon is probably used to thinking of Babs as just being a DT. Along that line of thinking, he probably remembered that Claus and Cole were the two starting DTs .... thus, he probably wasn't taking into account who were the starting DEs.

Of course, Babs didn't move to DT until '03 ... and he got injured a little past halfway through that season.
 
Alvis has the potential to be disruptive like Roth. But they might keep him at DT.

The 2005 line had to very undersized RS freshman. The 2011 line will have mostly guys that will be seeing their 3rd, 4th, or 5th summers in the program.

Totally different scenario.
 
CAARHawk said:
Alvis has the potential to be disruptive like Roth. But they might keep him at DT.

The 2005 line had to very undersized RS freshman. The 2011 line will have mostly guys that will be seeing their 3rd, 4th, or 5th summers in the program.

Totally different scenario.
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It's all a matter of how Bigach, Davis, Nardo, and Cooper can end up manning the spot opposite Daniels.

A big reason why Alvis was getting those reps at DT is because the coaches just wanted to get him on the field AND because so many other guys were dinged at DT (both Bigach and Nardo were out for most or all of spring camp).

Anyhow, my bet is that Alvis is the "next man in" at DE after Binns and Daniel. Of course, if we need him in on the interior ... he'll get reps there too.
 
I think something lacking in this conversation is the job that Kaczinski is doing as the coach. He has consistently coached up players- I love Klug but he is not in the conversation for our top 10 physically gifted d-lineman over the last several seasons. He was an outstanding technician and Coach K should get some of the credit for that. I feel the raw materials are there this season for the d-line to have quality play. So I am confident that the d-line will be solid by the Penn State game.
 
Raziel said:
Did you forget about Edds or do you think that Nielsen has shown more in half a season than what Edds showed in 3?

I have high hopes for Nielsen, but I don't think there is any way you can put him ahead of Edds yet.
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As already mentioned, he was saying that Nielsen is behind Edds, who was the best LEO of the Ferentz era. Now I was only 14 at the time, so I might be wrong, but IIRC, Greenway played the WILL spot.
 
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