NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
This has been discussed a good amount already, and I’ll admit I stole the idea from TOS, but I wanted to put it to a poll to see what people were thinking.
Which Freshman Redshirt?
- Thread starter NikeHawk21
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NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
I struggle with this one. On one hand if your were looking at positions to redshirt, Ulis and Perkins would make the most sense, but those two guys seem to be the highest regarded and college ready of the bunch.
The Murray’s make some sense but they are also already one year removed from their senior year of high school. Do they want to be at Iowa when they are 23/24 years old?
I went with just the two Murray’s. I think Fran can convince them to take redshirts this year. I’m 50/50 on Perkins I think the staff will float the idea to him as his minutes will be very minimal, but the staff will leave it up to Tony.
While Ogundele is probably the least seasoned of the bunch, I think you keep him available for his size to take some fouls occasionally. Similar role to what Olaseni did early in his career.
The Murray’s make some sense but they are also already one year removed from their senior year of high school. Do they want to be at Iowa when they are 23/24 years old?
I went with just the two Murray’s. I think Fran can convince them to take redshirts this year. I’m 50/50 on Perkins I think the staff will float the idea to him as his minutes will be very minimal, but the staff will leave it up to Tony.
While Ogundele is probably the least seasoned of the bunch, I think you keep him available for his size to take some fouls occasionally. Similar role to what Olaseni did early in his career.
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
Perkins athleticism would certainly be intriguing on this team. We don’t really have a slasher, and while Toussaint is fast and strong, he’s more below the rim while Perkins appears to have some above the rim ability.
RobHowe
Administrator
I also think he can help as a perimeter defender. I think Ulis can, too.
Fran has a lot of pieces to put into the puzzle. Should be fun to watch.
It's weird because you could make a case either way for every one of these players. You could also make a case either way how each player could be a bust or end up really good. 4 or the 5 guys improved a ton over the last year. To me that's a huge sign that they will be good. I can't even guess on who will redshirt.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
We haven't had a player with Perkins' skill set since Eric May, and those types of players are usually solid defenders too.
I voted Ulis for the redshirt. He has talent. But there is a lot of talent, as well as experience, ahead of him.
What he will do in any case is push those ahead of him. We have had too many teams in the past two decades, including some in the Fran era, that had some talent through the sixth or seventh man, then dropped off quickly.
SomersHawk
Well-Known Member
I voted for the Murray's. If I am them I could care less about my age, I got FIVE years of having a blast being a HAWK and making Dad proud. I wasn't even sure I'd be playing major college ball all that long ago. I am going to tear it up in years 4 and 5 with all the improvement and experience I will have. I'd rather kick ass in year 5 rather than play mop-up in year one.
The great thing about this class is I am really excited about their potential when it looked like at the time of their commitments it wasn't looking anything special to say the least. Good job Fran.
The great thing about this class is I am really excited about their potential when it looked like at the time of their commitments it wasn't looking anything special to say the least. Good job Fran.
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
Yes my confidence level in any direction would be pretty low. It’s possible we could hear some buzz this summer that changes are opinion on certain guys.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
You know what was interesting about Bobby Knight? Two things about how he viewed redshirts.
First of all he did a complete 180 on them during his Indiana career. For the first decade he refused to use them, reasoning that college was to be a four year experience and extending it just gave kids a reason to get lazy with their development and, more important to him, have a built in excuse to cut class. Then Randy Wittman and Ted Kitchel both missed seasons for medical reasons and ended up as fifth year seniors in the same class, and ended up having their best seasons.
Well, this got Knight thinking and he was soon redshirting players three and four at a time. What was unique about how he redshirted, and this is the second thing, is that he would throw true freshmen to the wolves, give them an idea of where they stood, then give them the redshirt year to work on their game. During his last fifteen years at Indiana many of his players had their best years as fifth year seniors, including Winston Morgan, Joe Hillman, Todd Jadlow, Todd Leary, Pat Graham, Brian Evans and others.
By the time his players came back as third year sophomores they were well seasoned, and still had three more years of eligibility.
First of all he did a complete 180 on them during his Indiana career. For the first decade he refused to use them, reasoning that college was to be a four year experience and extending it just gave kids a reason to get lazy with their development and, more important to him, have a built in excuse to cut class. Then Randy Wittman and Ted Kitchel both missed seasons for medical reasons and ended up as fifth year seniors in the same class, and ended up having their best seasons.
Well, this got Knight thinking and he was soon redshirting players three and four at a time. What was unique about how he redshirted, and this is the second thing, is that he would throw true freshmen to the wolves, give them an idea of where they stood, then give them the redshirt year to work on their game. During his last fifteen years at Indiana many of his players had their best years as fifth year seniors, including Winston Morgan, Joe Hillman, Todd Jadlow, Todd Leary, Pat Graham, Brian Evans and others.
By the time his players came back as third year sophomores they were well seasoned, and still had three more years of eligibility.
JG10Hawk
Well-Known Member
It's hard to know at this point but I voted for the Murray twins and Ulis.
Ogundele would probably benefit the most but I think he has the best opportunity for minutes.
Assuming Jack and Patrick are 100% I'm not seeing how either of the Murray twins can crack the rotation for more than mop up duty. Unless one of them is clearly better than Jack or Pat, I think they both redshirt.
It was a toss up for me between Ulis and Perkins. I don't see how there will be enough minutes for both to play. I'm thinking off the ball has a better shot and easier path for minutes with JBo, Joe T, & Connor already capable ball handlers. Also throw in that I think it's easier for a true frosh to play off ball than it is for them to run the show. Because of that, I went with Perkins playing and Ulis redshirting.
Ogundele would probably benefit the most but I think he has the best opportunity for minutes.
Assuming Jack and Patrick are 100% I'm not seeing how either of the Murray twins can crack the rotation for more than mop up duty. Unless one of them is clearly better than Jack or Pat, I think they both redshirt.
It was a toss up for me between Ulis and Perkins. I don't see how there will be enough minutes for both to play. I'm thinking off the ball has a better shot and easier path for minutes with JBo, Joe T, & Connor already capable ball handlers. Also throw in that I think it's easier for a true frosh to play off ball than it is for them to run the show. Because of that, I went with Perkins playing and Ulis redshirting.
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
Good thoughts. For what it’s worth I think Ulis is viewed as a combo guard who has enough size to play either guard spot. Quite frankly when the official heights come out I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s actually taller than Tony Perkins just based on eye test. I’ve heard people who say Tony is closer to 6’2 than 6’4 which is where he is listed. Tony much more physical though.
Zstatman
Well-Known Member
You needed one more option in your poll - none - which is how I would have voted.
Injuries and health will likely dictate this. We have two coming back from season ending surgeries, one coming back from health issues, maybe one or two returning players have issues, you just never know.
Injuries and health will likely dictate this. We have two coming back from season ending surgeries, one coming back from health issues, maybe one or two returning players have issues, you just never know.
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
I updated it.
Eric May is a solid comparison. I think Perkins is a better all around player.
JG10Hawk
Well-Known Member
Agreed, I think Ulis could play off ball as well. I was torn between who to pick to redshirt. I'm thinking at least one should, there just isn't enough minutes to go around if everyone else is healthy.
I picked Murray twins and Ulis. Reasoning is based more on the opportunity for playing time as opposed to who is best prepared to play or needs that extra year of seasoning. I see it as a toss up between Ulis and Perkins for which one redshirts.
Overall to keep classes even I think we do need to redshirt at least one player and maybe 2. Fran has had multiple 5 player classes now but it's hard to fill a class with 5 quality players.
But I'd also be okay going all in on this season and having nobody redshirt. If all 5 can give productive minutes no matter how limited, and it helps us win a Big 10 title or make a final 4 then it was worth it. As we saw last season, the Big 10 regular season is grueling and is tough to only play 8 or 9 players.
Plus if it was me and I had the opportunity to play 20 minutes all year but get to a final 4 or win a conference title, it would be hard to turn down that opportunity and instead be in street clothes on the bench.
Overall to keep classes even I think we do need to redshirt at least one player and maybe 2. Fran has had multiple 5 player classes now but it's hard to fill a class with 5 quality players.
But I'd also be okay going all in on this season and having nobody redshirt. If all 5 can give productive minutes no matter how limited, and it helps us win a Big 10 title or make a final 4 then it was worth it. As we saw last season, the Big 10 regular season is grueling and is tough to only play 8 or 9 players.
Plus if it was me and I had the opportunity to play 20 minutes all year but get to a final 4 or win a conference title, it would be hard to turn down that opportunity and instead be in street clothes on the bench.
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
Fairly split results. Seems like most people believe the Murray’s are the top candidates to redshirt. Another interesting thing with them is you’d have to imagine barring injury they both redshirt to stay in the same class? I suppose it’s possible if Keegan is good enough to earn minutes he plays and Kris redshirts. Possible but seems sort of unlikely.
MisterLucky
Well-Known Member
I am of the opposite view. I hope everyone BUT the Murrays redshirt, and it's because of what occurred with Olaseni. I would have loved to have him for one more year as a developed player rather than have him play a few minutes as a freshman as a raw recruit. We currently have plenty of backcourt players and while Ulis and Perkins might bring something to the table, are they really going to get enough minutes to matter? Do we really want to give up an entire year so they can play a few minutes in blowouts? I put Ogundele in the same boat as Gabe. Do we really want him learning in game on the court or in a year of structured practice? By all accounts, he is the least prepared to play this season. The Murrays are already a year out of HS and have done nothing but work on their game at the academy they attended. They are a year older andmore mature. Unless they are totally unprepared to help the team, I would play them.
