Which current HCs' Caused the Game to be too Physical?

eyekwah

Well-Known Member
Lost in news was McCaffrey's comments on the "freedom of movement". Looking back over the past 25 years who would be on your lists? Big Ten coaches that make my list are Tom Izzo and retired Purdue coach Gene Keady. Bob Huggins would also be on my list. I'd define him as Bob "Muggim" Huggins. Who do you want to nominate?
 
Funny that the Big is complaining.

It is a way for less talent to be competitive by strength and brute force.

There is a lot of blame to go around. Tom Davis certainly wouldn't be without consideration. Jim Dutcher would have to be in that mix. Maybe Bob Knight. At the time, Special K was pretty physical and Kevin Boyle got physical on D so Lute might get mention. Being physical is different than grabbing shorts.
 
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Lost in news was McCaffrey's comments on the "freedom of movement". Looking back over the past 25 years who would be on your lists? Big Ten coaches that make my list are Tom Izzo and retired Purdue coach Gene Keady. Bob Huggins would also be on my list. I'd define him as Bob "Muggim" Huggins. Who do you want to nominate?
Keady was definitely on the forefront. He introduced a free weights program back when the competition was using Universal machines and Nautilus equipment. It was widely believed forty years ago that free weights were bad for baseball and basketball players (!)

It didn't take long for Purdue to reap the benefits. They had guards that were built like linebackers. You can imagine what their forwards and post players looked like. Their guards would bump, hand check, hip check, anything and everything to impede offensive freedom of movement. By 1990 Bobby Knight had had enough. Long known for positioning and smarts to play defense, he decided to get physical. Tom Izzo and Bo Ryan would eventually follow suit. The afteraffects still reverberate today.
 
Lost in news was McCaffrey's comments on the "freedom of movement". Looking back over the past 25 years who would be on your lists? Big Ten coaches that make my list are Tom Izzo and retired Purdue coach Gene Keady. Bob Huggins would also be on my list. I'd define him as Bob "Muggim" Huggins. Who do you want to nominate?

Knight & Keady started it. Izzo & Bo Ryan took it to a whole new level.
 
What I wonder about is the the motivation of the officials to consistently call a certain number of fouls per game, on each team, and at what times and how that is never ever talked about even though the numbers show it. I haven't seen the data nor compiled any, but I would bet that I am right that you will see a pretty consistent pattern of foul calls. For instance, how many times when two teams approach the media break, like the under 7 timeout, and someone gets hit with a touch foul? Also, how many times have you seen a team rack up 30 or 40 fouls? Do you think that teams just automatically foul about the same number of times a game? This is when a team can score 40 points in a game or 100, commit 5 turnovers or 25, or shoot 5 threes or 35, and yet still commit between 15-20 fouls a game? Never over or under, or rarely.

So I want to know what kind of pressure are these officials under besides just calling it like it is. Do they know they have a 2 hour time slot and not to go over? Do they get buzzed in to say we need a commercial stoppage here so get somebody like Pemsl or Kriener? Or do they get told that, hey, you could call 50 fouls on MSU but the fans don't want to be here all night and the TV partners have to go to other programming so move it along and let it go?

An analogy is in short track racing, at the end of the night when it is getting late and everyone is getting tired and you start on the front row, you better take advantage of it and jump the start because no way are they going to call it back. It will take way too much time. At least for those of use with experience would, while those that complained were just naive.
 
It's my opinion the physical style of play comes from old NBA coaches in particular Chuck Daly and Pat Riley. If you look back at the 80s NBA it was physical and they had the no open layups rule but the game was still fast paced and involved a good amount of passing and offense flourished. As Jordan started taking over the league as well as other really good guards the one on one defense at the ball got much more physical and that trickled down to the college game.

If I had to name one coach I would say look back at the coach that was around the dream team at that time and who worked with Chuck Daly. That man is coach K. He has a lot of pull in the game and people always follow what the tp guys are doing. I don't think college has reverted back to the hand checking etc that the NBA started to get rid of because the offensive numbers started to go down.

Just my two cents
 
Bobby Knight was a dirty head coach, remember is the early 80's vs Iowa where jhis players who were in-bounding the basketball would throw the basketball in an Iowa players face if they couldn't find another IU player to pass to?
 
Bobby Knight was a dirty head coach, remember is the early 80's vs Iowa where jhis players who were in-bounding the basketball would throw the basketball in an Iowa players face if they couldn't find another IU player to pass to?
How would have liked to be the jimoke who had to stand on that baseline during Indiana's practice as players practiced whipping the ball into his grill?
 
I don't know who started the trend. All I know is the league itself has the power to stop it and they haven't had the nut sack to tell the likes of Izzo, etc. that it isn't going to be allowed.

I absolutely hate that kind of basketball. Defense is played with your feet, not your hands. I don't see this clutching and grabbing going on when I watch other leagues play. I was really looking forward to the NCAA's to see what Iowa's offense could do when allowed freedom of movement.
 
Huggins was the worst, Keady really ramped it up with his weight lifting, Henson now Cole at Illinoy really employed the handchecking and bumping. Of course, Izzo today, I would include Nolan Richardsonl's "40 minutes of hell". The common thread with these teams is getting the officials to not call every foul, just the eggregious ones. Several uncalled fouls turns a close game into a win. Teams with deep benches like MSU can just bring another All-American off the bench if players get in foul trouble. Georgetown played I thought dirty defense with Thompson.
 
I don't know who started the trend. All I know is the league itself has the power to stop it and they haven't had the nut sack to tell the likes of Izzo, etc. that it isn't going to be allowed.

I absolutely hate that kind of basketball. Defense is played with your feet, not your hands. I don't see this clutching and grabbing going on when I watch other leagues play. I was really looking forward to the NCAA's to see what Iowa's offense could do when allowed freedom of movement.
It's not just hands now it's body blows to knock players off their cuts. This year players did a lot of fake posting and were really stepping in front of defenders as they tried to follow cutters. MSU, Maryland, and Illinoys were teams I saw doing this. The players doing the old-fashioned way of setting screens seems to be a good way to be called for a foul. The home games I went to I could really see this tatic being used, the officials simple chose to ignore it.
 
How would have liked to be the jimoke who had to stand on that baseline during Indiana's practice as players practiced whipping the ball into his grill?
A lot of Knight's players were classless, I still remember a game where Iowa was beating Indiana bad and Isaiah Thomas ran by Special K and and threw a vicious elbow late in the game. I think it was one of Knight's championship teams. Thomas was a punk who hid behind his smile and kid face. I remember him doing the exact same thing in an NBA game during a blow out. Knight was a thug himself as far as I'm concerned, his antics would not have accepted by very many fan bases.
 
All of the coaches mentioned plus maybe Denny Crum at Louisville who played a very physical press and man to man as did Nolan Richardson. Remember Ronnie Lester getting hacked from behind on a fast break layup that ended is semi-final game.

But really a lot of sports writers think the mid-80s NBA was first to get really physical which made its way to more college teams.

Valvano and other coaches who liked to play hackfest ball late in games to force teams to make 1 and 1 free throws before the 10 foul double free throw rule also led to a lot of this. It got to the point that the refs wouldnt call every hack and that led to plain old turnovers which is even better than giving up free throws.

And wow many Big East coaches starting around '83-84 really let the rough play ensue.
 
All of the coaches mentioned plus maybe Denny Crum at Louisville who played a very physical press and man to man as did Nolan Richardson. Remember Ronnie Lester getting hacked from behind on a fast break layup that ended is semi-final game.

But really a lot of sports writers think the mid-80s NBA was first to get really physical which made its way to more college teams.

Valvano and other coaches who liked to play hackfest ball late in games to force teams to make 1 and 1 free throws before the 10 foul double free throw rule also led to a lot of this. It got to the point that the refs wouldnt call every hack and that led to plain old turnovers which is even better than giving up free throws.

And wow many Big East coaches starting around '83-84 really let the rough play ensue.
Look at box scores from those days, or even from Lute's 1980 final four run. It wasn't unusual for teams to commit 25 or more fouls during the course of a game. And Lute routinely played guys with two first half fouls. Others probably did too.
 
So I want to know what kind of pressure are these officials under besides just calling it like it is. Do they know they have a 2 hour time slot and not to go over? Do they get buzzed in to say we need a commercial stoppage here so get somebody like Pemsl or Kriener? Or do they get told that, hey, you could call 50 fouls on MSU but the fans don't want to be here all night and the TV partners have to go to other programming so move it along and let it go?
Holy F man. It takes a lot of skill and determination to make the top 5 dumbest posts in HN history list, but you did it.

Congratulations.
 
Bobby Knight changed the game of basketball with his emphasis on physical man to man defense, but they were nothing by today's standards. Today's officiating has changed the game from basketball to rugby, and certain obvious coaches have decided to take advantage of it assuming that the refs will eventually stop calling every foul just to progress the games.
 
Holy F man. It takes a lot of skill and determination to make the top 5 dumbest posts in HN history list, but you did it.

Congratulations.

Not a chance. The only way anyone on this board could possibly make that list is if you remove yourself and spare us all your assholishness, because you have that entire list locked up. What a dick.
 

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