When you run a for-profit/pro-style program

[Winterhawk]

You will get the response of the fan base that you are getting after the PSU game. Iowa has very clearly made the profitability of the program a top priority. I don't judge this as a bad thing, but when you pay your coach NFL money, ask NFL prices for your tickets, require what amounts to PSL's for premium seats, privatize your network broadcast... you are going to get this type of reaction in your fan base after a game like PSU.

The University of Iowa Football team is no longer primarily supported by mostly alumni and geographic pride - instead the football program is an on-field product judged by the return on investment of the fans. This is what happens to professional teams. Again, I don't blame the University or the Athletic Program for embracing this course, but instead I'd indict those on here who act indignant when the fan base reacts predictably to poor performance and effort. Players are going to be criticized, coaches are going to be put on hot seats, fans are going to boo, etc...

And whether the players realize it or not when they sign (and many won't at 18 through no fault of their own), they agree to a certain level of this when they choose to play big-time college football. This isn't unique to Iowa, this is big-time college football now. If JVB had gone to Northern Iowa instead of Iowa - he could have played good competition and had an opportunity to go pro without the expectations and fan base issues that come with going to Iowa. And to this point, JVB said as much in his comments since the game that the boo's are part of the program and Saturday night's game gave the fan base reason to do so.

Critique other fans if you want, but enough with all the lines about how those fans must be bad people for participating in the culture that the University chose and implemented.

 

[kmurp]

I don't buy your excuse for the boorish behavior. According to your thesis, it's the University that is responsible for this because they have made football big business. I might agree with you regarding the view that Ferentz should change or be replaced ( with your argument ..not that I want him to go ).
How then do you explain bad fan behavior in prior eras? The crowd actually cheered when Commings Jr got injured back in the seventies. Did they have the "right" to do so then?

 

[Winterhawk]

Can't comment on the seventies, born in 79.

I think you are confusing my argument regarding the backlash after the PSU loss and what is just unacceptable in the general civilized society (i.e. cheering for injuries, throwing garbage on the field, making light of Sandusky, etc...). Is booing considered boorish behavior at NFL games? Is it okay to criticize players performance in the NFL, or is that boorish? The point I'm making is that some on this board are implying that if someone booed at the game or has called out JVB for his poor play that there is something fundamentally wrong with them as a human being for doing this at a college game. My point is that the "collegiate" portion of this equation is lost when the football team operates as a for-profit enterprise. I don't fault the university for doing this - I actually think it is the only choice, but with that choice comes a different relationship with your fan base. This means that we can expect the fan base to behave in ways that more reflect a traditional professional crowd than the historical norms of the college game.

 

[kmurp]

You have a point. I'm probably just being a bit argumentative.

 

[Golfer]

I'm disturbed by this thread. Probably because there could be some truth to it. I'd go further, we could be a developmental program for the NFL. A graduate degree program if you will.

 

[uihawk82]

I'm disturbed by this thread. Probably because there could be some truth to it. I'd go further, we could be a developmental program for the NFL. A graduate degree program if you will.

I disagree with the OP about booing players, throwing stuff at players, etc.

I have no problem, NO PROBLEM calling into radio shows to criticize the coaching, I have criticized KF. I think he is a good coach, above avg but I have really criticized some of his in game brain farts.

But I disagree with the active booing.

If the hawks have a couple more bad home games I am writing an open letter to Bara telling him not to raise ticket prices because the product he manages has gotten so poor since 2010.

 

[Winterhawk]

I'm disturbed by this thread. Probably because there could be some truth to it. I'd go further, we could be a developmental program for the NFL. A graduate degree program if you will.

I understand the sentiment golfer, there is a bit of the shine taken off the whole concept if you accept this line of thinking.

I would however point out that what I wrote above was not to silence those who would comment on the actions of other fans, but rather point out that some are being disingenious in my opinion in judging the actions outlined above in such harsh terms. Have the debate, let's just not act like you'd have to be inhumane to criticize a big-time college player or boo at a game.

And for anyone who would say that Iowa is not a big time program, the context of this thread is the for-profit nature of the program. On the money side, there is no denying that Iowa Football is big time.

 

[Golfer]

I don't agree with booing. I don't boo the other team, and I don't boo the other team's band (something I'll never understand, but I attend games sober also).

If ticket prices go up, I'm a single game ticket buyer. Or a scalper.

I still maintain we need to give this three years minimum, after that, a wholesale change is in open season for me. I think just in recruiting alone we'll see some difference. If not, once again, gloves are off.

It is not cheap now, and hasn't been for quite some time to attend games. I've always said we're usually competitive, and given our level of recruits, credited that to coaching. I'm going to watch closely after Saturday. That was hard to take.

 

[Winterhawk]

I disagree with the OP about booing players, throwing stuff at players, etc.

I have no problem, NO PROBLEM calling into radio shows to criticize the coaching, I have criticized KF. I think he is a good coach, above avg but I have really criticized some of his in game brain farts.

But I disagree with the active booing.

If the hawks have a couple more bad home games I am writing an open letter to Bara telling him not to raise ticket prices because the product he manages has gotten so poor since 2010.

UIHawk, I actually agree with you on not booing players - I don't do it even at pro games. But I recognize at NFL games that this will be part of the experience even if I don't choose to participate. I think big-time college football has reached that same place, and thus we don't need to call those who participate in this out as subhuman. I think what you wrote is great for the debate - it's those who believe themselves purists and attack other people that seems over the top to me.

As far as the throwing stuff on the field, I addressed that separately above in the second post - I put that in a different category and I think you and I agree.

 

[okeefe4prez]

You will get the response of the fan base that you are getting after the PSU game. Iowa has very clearly made the profitability of the program a top priority. I don't judge this as a bad thing, but when you pay your coach NFL money, ask NFL prices for your tickets, require what amounts to PSL's for premium seats, privatize your network broadcast... you are going to get this type of reaction in your fan base after a game like PSU.

The University of Iowa Football team is no longer primarily supported by mostly alumni and geographic pride - instead the football program is an on-field product judged by the return on investment of the fans. This is what happens to professional teams. Again, I don't blame the University or the Athletic Program for embracing this course, but instead I'd indict those on here who act indignant when the fan base reacts predictably to poor performance and effort. Players are going to be criticized, coaches are going to be put on hot seats, fans are going to boo, etc...

And whether the players realize it or not when they sign (and many won't at 18 through no fault of their own), they agree to a certain level of this when they choose to play big-time college football. This isn't unique to Iowa, this is big-time college football now. If JVB had gone to Northern Iowa instead of Iowa - he could have played good competition and had an opportunity to go pro without the expectations and fan base issues that come with going to Iowa. And to this point, JVB said as much in his comments since the game that the boo's are part of the program and Saturday night's game gave the fan base reason to do so.

Critique other fans if you want, but enough with all the lines about how those fans must be bad people for participating in the culture that the University chose and implemented.

Like. The price explosion bince 2004 has been ridiculous. Northwestern caliber football at OSU or Michigan prices.

I love the Hawks and I love going to IC to hang with friends and family and crush some brews before the games, but the draconian tailgating rules, the long drive, the prices and the poor product on the field have really turned me off. Hell, Scorpion came clear from NC to watch that ballgame. I don't expect the Hawks to win every game, heck I don't even expect them to win a Rose Bowl in my lifetime, but for the love of God, when you're charging me over $100 a ticket to subsidize the coach who is making close to $4 million a year you better beat Central Michigan and at least keep it respectable against a team that is under major sanctions that lost a big chunk of its key players from last year. He'll get it turned around again, but in the meantime, I ain't driving 7 or 8 hours roundtrip to watch that garbage and run the risk of some fata$$ cop from Tipton, Iowa arresting me for sneaking a swig of Jameson or some other nonsense.

 

[Tigerhawk222]

I'm not yet ready to join the "fire Ferentz" chorus but if--as Winterhawk astutely points out--this is a for-profit enterprise with fans and big money contributors as invested stakeholders, then it begs a few hard questions. What kind of organization gives its CEO (football coach) a contract so sweet there is no affordable way to part company? To me, it is unfortunate that Iowa is saddled with a costly coaching contract signed during the best of times under the naive assumption it would just continue to be that way. Barta sold the farm, essentially, when things were going well. This reflects directly on Barta, who IMHO was hired as a "caretaker" athletic director to "keep up the good work" (mostly fundraising) accomplished by his predecessor, Bowlbsy. Barta has pretty much been acting that way ever since, focusing on fund-raising for new facilities, etc. Winning seems secondary to the whole department's mission, which is to keep the money flowing. That's the world we live in and I accept that fact except the winning part needs to be a bigger part of the equation (for Iowa athletics in general, not just football). So when Ferentz was ultra popular awhile back, a wiser athletic director might have tempered the heat of the moment and left a little leeway for the program to act in its own best interest should the wheels on the wagon ever start to fall off. Are the wheels falling off now? That's another question entirely but if they are, what kind of position is Iowa in to do anything about it?

 

[LG210]

Like. The price explosion bince 2004 has been ridiculous. Northwestern caliber football at OSU or Michigan prices.

I love the Hawks and I love going to IC to hang with friends and family and crush some brews before the games, but the draconian tailgating rules, the long drive, the prices and the poor product on the field have really turned me off. Hell, Scorpion came clear from NC to watch that ballgame. I don't expect the Hawks to win every game, heck I don't even expect them to win a Rose Bowl in my lifetime, but for the love of God, when you're charging me over $100 a ticket to subsidize the coach who is making close to $4 million a year you better beat Central Michigan and at least keep it respectable against a team that is under major sanctions that lost a big chunk of its key players from last year. He'll get it turned around again, but in the meantime, I ain't driving 7 or 8 hours roundtrip to watch that garbage and run the risk of some fata$$ cop from Tipton, Iowa arresting me for sneaking a swig of Jameson or some other nonsense.

As soon as I read "I love going to IC to hang with friends and family", I would have bet my life savings that "crush some brews" was not going to be too far behind. And you didn't disappoint.

 

[uihawk82]

then it begs a few hard questions. What kind of organization gives its CEO (football coach) a contract so sweet there is no affordable way to part company? ?

TH, this is the way of the world, there are many large and medium corporations that pay extremely high salaries with bonuses and golden parachutes to the CEOs and other high management.

And it doesnt matter if you fail, they give you a raise, what a friggin joke the way the world now works.

KF should have been given at most a 5 year contract with a yearly renewal so that he has a 5 year deal to be here as long as the kids he recruits. this long term contract was stupid.