Close losses on the court, or in recruiting? See Van Coleman saying how impressed he is that Iowa can get in top recruits final 2. I just have a hard time getting excited about that kind of moral victory. While I can see hope for the future in a close loss on the court. The same isn't true with respect to recruiting. Not sure why.
What is worse?
- Thread starter CAARHawk
- Start date
tweeterhawk
Well-Known Member
They both suck. But I guess I feel better about coming close but losing out on better recruits. Sooner or later this staff will land one, then another, then another, and White Magic's carpet will be off and flying again.
blkngoldUofI
Well-Known Member
They both hurt a bit but they both are not from a lack of effort. Fran is laying the ground work which will hopefully lead to recruits looking at Iowa instead of Fran and crew having to scour the face of planet earth just to offer. The work Fran and his staff have done since they all took the job in the recruiting area is amazing. There isn't a place they haven't been.
imported_ankle23
Well-Known Member
i agree with Coleman here.
brjohnson23
Member
I think it is a positive that we are being mentioned as a finalist for some top players. It shows that Fran and his system are appealing to top players. To be a first year coach and coming off 10-11 win seasons, just to get these players attention is impressive. We need the practice facilities to be completed and to have a season where we challenge for an NIT/NCAA bid. Then we will start getting some commitments instead of just being a finalist.
IATrainMaster101
Well-Known Member
Both are heart breaking but at the same time breath hope into the program and it's fans. To me the key to Van's comments was the point he made about how late Fran got in on some of these kids that he is just missing out on. To me that is telling.
Both worms will turn very soon.
Both worms will turn very soon.
hawkfarmer
Well-Known Member
I think the key here is that we are getting consideration from solid players that we have been recruiting for less than a year. Bball recruiting starts for most good players as 8th or 9th graders, so to get in on kids late still be in their final list is pretty dang good. In a few years, this will no longer be a good thing but more of a bummer.
I figured out what is influencing my response. I did all that research before they hired Fran on what makes a successful coach and it all seemed to boil down to early recruiting success, so I put all my hope eggs in that basket. I just really didn't focus on on-court results at all.
So, I have had tunnel vision on the recruiting aspect. This even played out in Cartwright and Basabe's play, because I saw them more as signs of recruiting success than anything else. Need to adjust my focus a little to bring coaching and player development more into the mix.
So, I have had tunnel vision on the recruiting aspect. This even played out in Cartwright and Basabe's play, because I saw them more as signs of recruiting success than anything else. Need to adjust my focus a little to bring coaching and player development more into the mix.
Both are disappointing but both have some positives.
On the court, you can see progress in close losses,knowing that our talent was clearly inferior,but we competed...so when the talent evens out..we should win some of those.
In recruiting, falling just short due to lack of time courting a kid could mean that the next time,with more startup time,we will score.
I am agreeing with Coleman here. Pulling in a kid from the west coast is a longshot,but Fran's force of personality actually made it a close call for Cezar.
Seeing OKSt's taj mahal facilities makes it easy to see how a kid could be sway their way,but next time maybe it will be a program that does not have a billion dollar benefactor.
Now, that said, he must win some of these recruiting battles in 2012,with Woodbury as a top target that we need to win. Fans think it is a slam dunk to get the Iowa kids,but clearly, when they are top 100, the green lite is on for opposing coaches lately. Woodbury and Jok are true tests for Fran. After Barnes and Paige, the bleeding must be staunched.
On the court, you can see progress in close losses,knowing that our talent was clearly inferior,but we competed...so when the talent evens out..we should win some of those.
In recruiting, falling just short due to lack of time courting a kid could mean that the next time,with more startup time,we will score.
I am agreeing with Coleman here. Pulling in a kid from the west coast is a longshot,but Fran's force of personality actually made it a close call for Cezar.
Seeing OKSt's taj mahal facilities makes it easy to see how a kid could be sway their way,but next time maybe it will be a program that does not have a billion dollar benefactor.
Now, that said, he must win some of these recruiting battles in 2012,with Woodbury as a top target that we need to win. Fans think it is a slam dunk to get the Iowa kids,but clearly, when they are top 100, the green lite is on for opposing coaches lately. Woodbury and Jok are true tests for Fran. After Barnes and Paige, the bleeding must be staunched.
FalseMirage
Well-Known Member
I understand your disappointment and feel your pain, the light at the end of the tunnel is almost in sight.
Fran has Iowa in the running for good players and the more of them he lands, the easier it will be for him to land others. It's a step in the right direction. A basketball program that has fallen as far as Iowa's has isn't built in a day. The rebuilding has already begun.
Looking at it from a slightly different angle, I think the effort that Fran & Co. are doing on the recruiting trail will eventually pay off plus I am hopeful that existing recruits do not take the off-season for granted but apply the same work ethic modeled by the coaching staff to their own games. If you think about it, how worried do you think the likes of Gatens/May/Payne/etc were about playing time in 2010-2011. I'm not saying they didn't make strides or put in effort to improve during off-season, however, given Marble & McCabe's play this year and knowing White/Oglesby will be gunning for playing time next fall I hope their efforts will be even more focused. Oh and one more thing...how important will this off-season be for everyone now that they have a coaching staff they believe in who are not afraid to tell them exactly what they need to work on.
Watching ''The Journey'' last nite, I was struck by how Michigan came back from that 1-6 start in the Big Ten. In the preseason,I had them being 9th in the league and reeling from the loss of Sims and Harris,their stars from last year. But,somehow,someway, they went from 1-6 to winning 9 of their last 13 in the league,with a bunch of frosh/sophmores and novak and douglas. That is why you never give up,you always believe, as Beilein told them in the locker room after falling to 1-6 due to a beating from NW. College bb is a funny game,and just when you think a team like Iowa has no shot to make a big move...well,they go out and do just that. Like with Bryce Cartwrights surprise success, you just never know. Go Hawks.
sportstalent
Well-Known Member
Close losses in recruiting are better than on the court. For this reason, the next level recruits open their eyes, the under the radar kids take a look at Iowa. Seeing Iowa just missed out on a kid like Cezar is not all bad. Kids pay more attention to recruiting than some want to believe, with all the available media it is easy.
The on court losses help with the top kids moreso than the next level kids and the occasional upset gets them really paying attention. Kids want to win, playing time is secondary for most kids and it should be, they want to be part of a good thing and if Iowa is to get better in recruiting they have to win. The fact that kids like Cezar and Carter are taking looks at Iowa with their record the last couple of seasons speaks volumes to how effective this staff really is, think about it when Iowa develops the 2010 class and the 2011 class, Iowa is not far from winning on the court, or off the court.
The on court losses help with the top kids moreso than the next level kids and the occasional upset gets them really paying attention. Kids want to win, playing time is secondary for most kids and it should be, they want to be part of a good thing and if Iowa is to get better in recruiting they have to win. The fact that kids like Cezar and Carter are taking looks at Iowa with their record the last couple of seasons speaks volumes to how effective this staff really is, think about it when Iowa develops the 2010 class and the 2011 class, Iowa is not far from winning on the court, or off the court.
hawkIhoops
Well-Known Member
Frustrating to lose out on kids no doubt. This staff is at least targeting kids that have other mid to high level D1 offers. This is exponentially better than the Lickliter-Walthal approach of targeting D2 kids in hopes of coaching them up.
Unfortunately it is going to take at least two recruiting classes and a few breaks to get the house in order.
Unfortunately it is going to take at least two recruiting classes and a few breaks to get the house in order.
AIRHAWK
Well-Known Member
In watching the NCAA tourney, you see a lot of very good basketball players at some of these obscure schools. I am confident that Fran will be able to get good players to come to Iowa City. Good school, rabid fans waiting for the return to respectability. Play in the Big 10 or some of these lesser leagues? I really don't think it should be that hard of a sell.
It will happen...one player at a time
It will happen...one player at a time
This is what I am struck by as I watch the tourny.
The big men at some of the smaller schools would do just fine at Iowa next year at center. Some of the guards as well.
I think the trend toward parity in college bb is more pronuonced than ever this year.
Gonzaga has some nice athletes, and made the mighty St Johns look average.
Morehead St had some nice players. As did VCU. And so on.
Iowa can get some of those guys and compete with the top Big Ten teams...heck,we compete with them right now.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
I think you hit it on the head JHHawk. When Fran says you are never as far away from winning as you think, it is because of this. There are tons of kids that slip through the cracks, develop later, or are just plan misses by the recruiting analysts out there. I know it is great to get top 100 kids. Yet for every one of those, there is 2 kids like Cartwright and Basabe, that you can win and compete with.
Signing top 100 kids makes your job easier, but it doesn't mean you can't do the job without getting those kids. If you "hit" with a Cartwright and Basabe, you can start to compete. Sprinkle in a "hit" with a White, and Meyer, and the two other kids Fran will bring in, and you have a good team that can win. Now don't get me wrong, we really have no idea if a White or Meyer is truly a "hit"......yet I have confidence in Fran that he can tell the difference. He offered both of these kids early, and there is a reason for that. It isn't like these kids were last minute guys that he had to get just to get a body on the floor for practice.
Whomever we bring in, I am truly excited about Hawkeye BB again, and that is a GREAT feeling!
sportstalent
Well-Known Member
I guess the thing in recruiting is no matter where the kid is rated, it doesn't matter, unless a kid simply doesn't belong on a Division 1 team period mid-major or major.
John Henson is a kid that comes to mind, he was the No. 5 rated prospect at 6-10 and 185 lbs and is playing at UNC. Ok, so he has good skill, but the great word of "potential" was often used with this kid it wasn't funny. His freshman year he flat out stunk, until the last 7 or 8 games, he got pushed around and looked out of place playing against anybody over 200 lbs. This year, he looks like something of a player, not like the No. 5 player, but a player that still has to develop.
The combination of player attitude from the kid coming to campus and player development are two most important factors, not matter if the kid is a 5* player or a no* player. Kids that get recruited to any Division 1 school have talent, but their work ethic and the belief in the coaching staff is going to factor in to how much that player develops.
It cannot be about playing time, kids want to win. Iowa has had so many players transfer out that player development has been an afterthought and obviously they didn't believe in the staff.
With Fran and company at the helm, we have seen what attitude and belief can get out of a team that wasn't expected to compete...period.
Yes, Iowa won 11 games only, but if they played with the same enthusiasm they did this year as last year, they would never have beaten Purdue. Iowa was a broken team at the end of last season, this year they stayed a team. If that same situation existed during this season, I think it would have difficult to watch Iowa period and they would have won less than 10 games.
Iowa won 11 games this year, what has happened after the season. Fell short on a PG that no other 11-win team had a shot at and picked up an emerging prospect for the 2012 class, not bad at the end of the day.
