What Did We Learn? Iowa-ULM

[ThunderHawk]

McNutt has always been superior to DJK.

That will be confirmed next year when McNutt is an NFL millionaire and DJK is...wherever.

 

[SeattleHawkeye]

I think that you're forgetting Nielsen's play too quickly from last year. Besides, if you really closely watched Nielsen in coverage against ULM ... he played pretty darn well. He made a beautiful play on a ball and almost came up with a pick.

I definitely think that he needs to start tackling better ... however, I also clearly remember Edds tackling poorly early in the season too in years past. And Edds is the guy who set the gold standard at the LEO spot.

My point being ... I wouldn't be marginalizing Nielsen too soon here.

Besides, I doubt that you're accounting for how much pressure spread Os put on our LBs. And, it makes it that much harder when your ankle isn't 100%.

I think that we're going to find that Nielsen's ability to hold the edge ... particularly against "traditional Os" like PSU's and MSU's ... will reap significant rewards.

Actually Homer, part of the reason I pointed Nielsen out is b/c of his play last season. And don't try to tell me what I'm thinking re my comments, specifically what I am and am not "accounting for," b/c you have no clue. You point out that Nielsen played well in pass coverage, but most of the LB's did Sat., including Kirksey, who has most of the season. And nobody is "marginalizing" Nielsen - we're pointing out that he missed multiple, fairly easy tackles Sat. that resulted in ULM getting significant gains b/c Nielsen didn't do his job. That's not marginalizing. If we were marginalizing him, we wouldn't be discussing him at all. Why is it so hard for you to accept that Nielsen didn't play as well as he should have Sat? I've been reading your drivel for years, and you come up w/ some BS, blowhard excuse for every player simply not performing. Call it what it is - sometimes players don't play as well as they should. Quit making excuses, particularly BS ones, i.e. Herman still "developing." It's great you have this unbelievable optimism and never want to call a player out for not performing, but w/ your line of thinking, does a player ever need to take responsibility, or is there always some acceptable (often conjured up) excuse? I guarantee you Nielsen wouldn't be making excuses for his missed tackles Sat. Why are you?

 

[homerHAWKeye777]

Actually Homer, part of the reason I pointed Nielsen out is b/c of his play last season. And don't try to tell me what I'm thinking re my comments, specifically what I am and am not "accounting for," b/c you have no clue. You point out that Nielsen played well in pass coverage, but most of the LB's did Sat., including Kirksey, who has most of the season. And nobody is "marginalizing" Nielsen - we're pointing out that he missed multiple, fairly easy tackles Sat. that resulted in ULM getting significant gains b/c Nielsen didn't do his job. That's not marginalizing. If we were marginalizing him, we wouldn't be discussing him at all. Why is it so hard for you to accept that Nielsen didn't play as well as he should have Sat? I've been reading your drivel for years, and you come up w/ some BS, blowhard excuse for every player simply not performing. Call it what it is - sometimes players don't play as well as they should. Quit making excuses, particularly BS ones, i.e. Herman still "developing." It's great you have this unbelievable optimism and never want to call a player out for not performing, but w/ your line of thinking, does a player ever need to take responsibility, or is there always some acceptable (often conjured up) excuse? I guarantee you Nielsen wouldn't be making excuses for his missed tackles Sat. Why are you?

What's the beef dude? I've clearly stated in another thread that Nielsen's tackling hasn't yet been up to par. I think that we can agree about that.

The problem is that several posters on these boards have been dogging on Nielsen ... and thus, I suppose that my response here was more in defense of Nielsen against such posts than it was in response to your post.

As for your attempt to again mark my comments as making excuses for Herman (or any other player) ... I'd reply by reminding you that Herman didn't have any prior starts at TE before this year. Furthermore, an issue that Herman had last year was that he dropped the ball a bit too much.

Thus, I would say that some of the disappointment that fans have had concerning Herman has been rather misplaced. The problem is that fans had expectations that simply didn't mesh with reality.

Now, if Herman had prior starts and shown Reisner-like hands ... then sure, such expectations would have had much better basis.

 

[SeattleHawkeye]

What's the beef dude? I've clearly stated in another thread that Nielsen's tackling hasn't yet been up to par. I think that we can agree about that.

The problem is that several posters on these boards have been dogging on Nielsen ... and thus, I suppose that my response here was more in defense of Nielsen against such posts than it was in response to your post.

As for your attempt to again mark my comments as making excuses for Herman (or any other player) ... I'd reply by reminding you that Herman didn't have any prior starts at TE before this year. Furthermore, an issue that Herman had last year was that he dropped the ball a bit too much.

Thus, I would say that some of the disappointment that fans have had concerning Herman has been rather misplaced. The problem is that fans had expectations that simply didn't mesh with reality.

Now, if Herman had prior starts and shown Reisner-like hands ... then sure, such expectations would have had much better basis.

The beef is that I think you devise some patehtic excuses for seemingly everything. I believe I made 2 comments re Nielsen not playing all that well Sat., which above you agree w/, but in your prior email made excuses for. And don't lump me in w/ other posters unless I specifically quote them or reiterate my agreement, which I did above. mbchawk noticed the same thing I did, as I'm sure other posters have. I haven't seen many posters here dogging Nielsen, though there were some on HI. I've seen people pointing out he missed some tackles and that while he's received high praise from the coaches as playing at an Edds level, some posters haven't seen it. I've never made that comment, but I don't think Nielsen has been as good as Edds, though he's not far behind, and IMO Edds is the gold standard at the Leo (though I think Kirksey takes that title in the future).

I feel like the Herman excuse is just that - an excuse. I'm fairly sure he was the #2 TE all last season, which in IA's offense usually gets a ton of minutes, which Herman got, and I think he logged minutes as the #3 in '09. Your excuse is that he's "developing." How much more "developing" does a senior who's logged a ton of minutes need? How much more "development" is there in the IA offense going from the #2 TE to the #1 TE? Is he suddenly not blocking? No longer running routes? Is he still expected to catch the ball and know the snap count? IMO the skill set is the same, and for whatever reason, Herman has been off track this season. It's not like he's a true soph that is essentially only playing a position for just over a year. As far as I know he's been a TE in IA's system for at least 3 seasons (maybe a 4th if he took a RS). I think the expectations are spot on for what he should be capable of doing considering his experience and skill, and I think many people concur.

The most annoying guys I played w/ in college were those that had an excuse for everything and couldn't just admit they made a mistake. The most annoying people I work w/ now do the same. I imagine many people on this board feel similarly. I feel like you're doing that for players when it's unnecessary. And I'm more than happy to "agree to disagree," but I read your musings on Scout for years (including when you "took your ball and went home," only to come back ~6 wks later), and I've read it here now since Jon started this site. You have some great insight and valuable contributions, specifically re player development and recruiting, but some of the more longwinded posts and excuses get old.

 

[homerHAWKeye777]

I feel like the Herman excuse is just that - an excuse. I'm fairly sure he was the #2 TE all last season, which in IA's offense usually gets a ton of minutes, which Herman got, and I think he logged minutes as the #3 in '09. Your excuse is that he's "developing." How much more "developing" does a senior who's logged a ton of minutes need? How much more "development" is there in the IA offense going from the #2 TE to the #1 TE? Is he suddenly not blocking? No longer running routes? Is he still expected to catch the ball and know the snap count? IMO the skill set is the same, and for whatever reason, Herman has been off track this season. It's not like he's a true soph that is essentially only playing a position for just over a year. As far as I know he's been a TE in IA's system for at least 3 seasons (maybe a 4th if he took a RS). I think the expectations are spot on for what he should be capable of doing considering his experience and skill, and I think many people concur.

The most annoying guys I played w/ in college were those that had an excuse for everything and couldn't just admit they made a mistake. The most annoying people I work w/ now do the same. I imagine many people on this board feel similarly. I feel like you're doing that for players when it's unnecessary. And I'm more than happy to "agree to disagree," but I read your musings on Scout for years (including when you "took your ball and went home," only to come back ~6 wks later), and I've read it here now since Jon started this site. You have some great insight and valuable contributions, specifically re player development and recruiting, but some of the more longwinded posts and excuses get old.

I'm sorry but most fans try to oversimplify things. That is why CONTEXT can be so important.

Many fans were packing up there bags and jumpin' off the wagon after the '07 season ... because they failed to observe CONTEXT. The team was grossly young and/or inexperienced at WR and on the OL ... and, as such, the O ended up sucking serious dogs.

To make matters worse, Dalton's play was subpar and Fletcher hadn't yet learned to play with adequate consistency. Thus, while the D still played admirably in my eyes ... the team simply couldn't overcome how absolutely atrocious the O was playing. Heck, while Christensen was clearly struggling ... it was really difficult sometimes to discern if he really sucked that bad ... or how much it was also on the OL and WRs. As it turned out ... there was plenty of suckitude to go around that season ... and while Christensen's development certainly got hurt by being put in such a tough spot ... he also was also struggling in instances where he shouldn't have. When the protection was good ... there was no excuse for his poor accuracy.

Anyhow, I CALLED the re-emergence of the Hawks in '08. Given the talent, the experience level, and, most importantly, the much improved team attitude ... it was obvious to me that the team would turn things around.

I saw CONTEXT, whereas folks (maybe such as yourself) were still caught in the black and white. Mind you, I wasn't attempting to deflect personal responsibility. I'm a mathematician and a scientist ... and I pride myself in my desire to always ask questions. While other fans were announcing how the Hawks sucked ... I was trying to understand WHY the Hawks sucked. Where you see excuses ... I'm observing the underlying threads that are either responsible for the successes or failures of the squad.

And, lastly, I steadfastly BOTH support the players while also emphasizing how the success or failure of the team is, by and large, simply a product of their execution. Thus, while you ACCUSE ME of making excuses for the players ... I'm the same one who puts the burden of our losses squarely on the shoulders of our PLAYERS. Similarly, when we win, many fans like to unduly give credit to the coaches ... however, the fact also remains that its the PLAYERS who also deserve the lion's share of the praise.

 

[94HawkMA]

I am so happy for #4. He makes a huge difference for Iowa. Did any of you see him play running back in high school? He could definitely play RB at Iowa, if they could spare him there.

 

[homerHAWKeye777]

The beef is that I think you devise some patehtic excuses for seemingly everything.

..... but some of the more longwinded posts and excuses get old.

Concerning the former ... not for everything ... only for when I can find viable explanations.

As for the the latter ... yep, I'm definitely long-winded. You also forgot to mention how I'm pompous know-it-all and I often come across as condescending to folks who disagree with me.

However, one area where you're grossly mistaken is that I frequently and very quickly admit when I'm wrong. Furthermore, I also don't hesitate to give up intellectual ground and commend folks for constructing strong arguments/points ... even if they differ from own.

Lastly and perhaps more importantly, while I might sometimes be guilty of coming across like a condescending a$$ ... I'm also a staunch advocate for civility on these boards. While I frequently argue ... it's exceptionally rare when I name-call.

 

[smhawk]

please name call lol, bust this open. I love message board throw downs.

anyways... how did everyone like nico laws hustle on special teams?? I think he's got a promising future

 

[SeattleHawkeye]

Homer, I get where you're coming from, and I appreciate the context you provide (though it gets a bit lengthy at times). There are unquestionably far too many kneejerk reaction posters, and I try not to be one of those, and generally don't think I am. However, I clearly don't always buy some of your explanations, and just b/c you have a high post count, I'm not going to agree w/ something I think is clearly false. That said, I absolutely hate the execution argument! Execution w/ some specificity is fantastic, but just the, "we failed to execute" drives me insane. a) Who failed to execute? and b) In what manner? Theoretically on every play somebody fails to execute, but it's how the failing occurred and what will be done to limit it occurring again that matters. As for your comments above re the earlier seasons, I generally concur, but I was a huge Marcus Wilson fan. If he takes care of business in the classroom, I think this is Sash's first year starting at IA (I'm not sure of the timing re their years, but you get my point.)

 

[homerHAWKeye777]

That said, I absolutely hate the execution argument! Execution w/ some specificity is fantastic, but just the, "we failed to execute" drives me insane. a) Who failed to execute? and b) In what manner? Theoretically on every play somebody fails to execute, but it's how the failing occurred and what will be done to limit it occurring again that matters. As for your comments above re the earlier seasons, I generally concur, but I was a huge Marcus Wilson fan. If he takes care of business in the classroom, I think this is Sash's first year starting at IA (I'm not sure of the timing re their years, but you get my point.)

I was a Wilson fan too ... however, I anticipate that he would have displaced Greenwood from the depth chart rather than Sash. A pretty beautiful thought to imagine the duo of Sash and Wilson. However, to Greenwood's great credit, he really developed into an excellent college player.

Anyhow, I absolutely agree with you that the term "execution" DOES get misused some. It often times gets used too much as an all-inclusive blanket phrase. Thus, usually when I remark about poor execution in a given game, I usually given particular examples too.

For instance, many of the key execution problems that we usually have early in seasons are:
- some tackling issues. Fortunately, the coaches really emphasize fundamentals, so our tackling issues usually subside by the time we're a game or two into the conference slate. On good years, we tackle well after only a few games. [this is a current problem]
- inadequate communication on the OL. This often leads to missteps and missed assignments. [I like what I'm seeing there for the most part ... pass-pro has been pretty darn solid]
- getting to the second level when run blocking [this is a current problem, although the group appeared to make strides against ULM]
- contain issues [this is a current issue ... it was also a big and recurrent problem through the first 2 years of Mattison's and Iwebema's careers]
- having guys screw up their gap responsibilities on D [it's usually an early problem we contend with whenever we're breaking in newbies at LB ... young guys often screw up and put two bodies to plug the same gap ... not good]
- having guys in the secondary make poor reads and consequently get themselves out of position [it's currently an issue ... the guys are gaining the experience to nip it in the bud though]
- having inexperienced O-linemen move early [Tobin is still a bit guilty of this ... I'm not too worried about him though]
- having WRs round out routes or run incomplete routes or run the wrong route altogether [this is still happening a little bit ... not as big of an issue as I would have anticipated though]
- having the QB hold onto the ball too long and eat a sack [not really an issue so far]
- having the QB lock onto a WR too early and too obviously [a bit of an issue]
- having the QB get too antsy and get rid of the ball too early [has happened some when Vandenberg hasn't been in "hurry-up" mode]
- etc, etc, etc

 

[EddyP]

 

[wolffey]

Im not takeing anything from our boys but i learned tcu plays less fortunate teams. Sorry i have a bad taste for tcu. Go Hawks

 

[hawkfan2679]

I learned that I think JVB has a little tell...whether it was being too comfortable against an inferior opponent or not (or if it was just in my head), I'm not sure.

I'd love to have the time to re-watch every offensive snap of the game. Every time JVB lined up under center, I'd like to take note of his left leg position and the type of play being run (run or pass). Often times it seemed like he was cheating his left leg back in order to explode from center to get into his pass drops...but he didn't seem to have the same pre-snap stance when it was a running play.

Like I said, maybe it was in my head, but if it wasn't, it would probably be a good idea to get him out of that habit sooner rather than later. Either always have the left leg back or never have it back...choose one.

 

[CP87]

I think the Iowa team, like many NFL teams, are more concerned about putting their players in the best position to execute, and are less worried about making every play look exactly the same pre-snap.

Thus, if a QB needs to hit a deep mesh-point in a hurry to run an outside zone, or if he needs to perform a quick straight drop in the passing game, they have no problem with cheating a leg back. This does not create any problems as long as the cheat-leg looks exactly the same on similar action, i.e. boot action off the outside zone or draws off a straight drop.

I really noticed this a few years back with Calloway. His stance would really give away runs to his side vs. runs away vs. pass. I started wondering why the coaches wouldn't correct such an obvious tell. Then right about the time I was expecting a pass based upon his stance, they run a draw and I had my answer.

 

[hawkfan2679]

I want to see if we ever ran the ball when he had his leg cheated back. Sure, you aren't going to have teams gameplanning around where JVB puts his leg, but it didn't seem like he's been doing it all season. It only seems to have surfaced most noticeably in this past week's ULM game. A defense probably can't even see it anyway...