What did the anti-Ferentz Crowd Think of Saturday?

[BigD]

Are you drunk, or ESL?

Are you drunk, or ESL?

Lol, I did go back correct some of those typos before I saw your post. Also It’s still pretty early out here in the western United States and I am using an IPhone with an auto correct that is willfully rebellious.

 

[okeefe4prez]

As I get older I respect him more as a man and coach than ever. I’d like to think I’m getting more mature and less obsessed with winning. I think the program will be in good hands when Brian takes over.

Meh. I alternate between KF hater and being content with KF. I have resigned myself to the fact Iowa will never win three big games in a row needed to win the title no matter who the coach is. I hope for at least a Rose Bowl win, but maybe even that is a stretch. Ultimately, when I look at what has happened to programs like Florida State, Texas, Michigan and Tennessee, I can see a vision for Iowa football of just hoping the stars align in years we draw a softer schedule and making a run at the west every few years because we ain't gonna perpetually be good. Sure, there have been some hires that have made sense, but a lot of programs have gone straight into the shitter when they fire an old line steady coach, so I guess I'm content with Kirk, for now anyway.

 

[Adam]

Lol, I did go back correct some of those typos before I saw your post. Also It’s still pretty early out here in the western United States and I am using an IPhone with an auto correct that is willfully rebellious.

Auto correct is the first step of the AI takeover. Just think of the ramifications of just slightly disrupting human communication.

 

[HawkGold]

Sure seems like there are very few real "Anti" KF posters on here that could be fully classified as "haters" which is what i expected. There are those who seem to think that being critical of parts of KF is indicative of being "Anti" KF which is a false assumption.

So it really gets down to "what was the OP really trying to do with this?"

Possibly to showcase how terrific and valuable KF is to the program? Maybe.

Bring up discussion on what seems to be a relatively quiet board during the opening week of football.

Even the first game was so KF. We had a great win by final score, but the majority of the game was marked with a high level of mediocrity. It was not a stretch to say that Iowa could have been trailing a good way into the 3rd quarter and if that happens who knows what the outcome might have been.

As usual, a 20 year coach has a team with some glaring holes (frustrations). The linebacker positioning is easily fixable. The wide receiver talent level is not anytime soon.

It does get old seeing those who have criticisms of aspects of KF getting labeled as anti or haters. Ended up being a decent thread with quite a bit of discussion.

 

[Adam]

Meh. I alternate between KF hater and being content with KF. I have resigned myself to the fact Iowa will never win three big games in a row needed to win the title no matter who the coach is. I hope for at least a Rose Bowl win, but maybe even that is a stretch. Ultimately, when I look at what has happened to programs like Florida State, Texas, Michigan and Tennessee, I can see a vision for Iowa football of just hoping the stars align in years we draw a softer schedule and making a run at the west every few years because we ain't gonna perpetually be good. Sure, there have been some hires that have made sense, but a lot of programs have gone straight into the shitter when they fire an old line steady coach, so I guess I'm content with Kirk, for now anyway.

The Rose Bowl means nothing anymore. We went to it 3 years ago and no one was truly satisfied. Not while 4 playoff spots are the ultimate prize. Even if we won a Rose Bowl we would still feel like we only got to eat most of our dinner. Getting to the playoff is the only real post season goal now. To do that you have to win the B1G. So our goal each season is the the same. Win the B1G. If Ferentz has a few more seasons in him then statistically he will get very close.

Can he win it when the the time comes? The evidence would suggest that it's not likely, but you never know. The old vet on his last go around may just have that spark of luck.

 

[okeefe4prez]

The Rose Bowl means nothing anymore. We went to it 3 years ago and no one was truly satisfied. Not while 4 playoff spots are the ultimate prize. Even if we won a Rose Bowl we would still feel like we only got to eat most of our dinner. Getting to the playoff is the only real post season goal now. To do that you have to win the B1G. So our goal each season is the the same. Win the B1G. If Ferentz has a few more seasons in him then statistically he will get very close.

Can he win it when the the time comes? The evidence would suggest that it's not likely, but you never know. The old vet on his last go around may just have that spark of luck.

Meh, I'm fine with going 13-1 with a Rose Bowl win and finishing like 5th or 6th in the final poll. That's probably the high water mark for Iowa football. These teams in the South are just on a different level from Iowa and there's no way Iowa can roll out there and beat the east champ, then a team like Bama or Clemson then a team like Oklahoma or whoever else makes it. We'll just never have enough total studs in the secondary or on the outside on offense to do it. I'd rather go win the Rose Bowl than lose by 30 in the first game of the playoff.

 

[SteveGarvey1]

I don't recall there being any discussion on here at all when Kirk set the record for all-time coaching losses at Iowa.

Cy Young probably has the record for losses in MLB. He did OK last I heard.

 

[westender]

How many of our coaches are wanted by other programs? Not many. That says something.

Or maybe just maybe they are loyal and like it here, ya know like most Iowans!?!?!?!?!? You don't think KF and PP haven't had many offers in the past to leave? C'mon dude.

 

[deanvogs]

I do like it that Kirk instills into his players work ethic, discipline, perseverance, responsibility, and accountability. Those traits will serve those young men well if they carry them forward the rest of their lives. I have had several opportunities to lead and teach boys scouts, cub scouts, and several young men organizations in my lifetime. We teach them similar things, so I respect those parts of Kirk’s approach to coaching.

Seriously though I have doubts about whether you were ever obsessed with winning. That doesn’t just dissolve and go away.

Kirk was hired to be a football coach not the team minister. Those values should have been taught to these young men in their homes by their parents (or in some cases by their parent). Should it be a part of their being coached? Of course. However, if you think Kirk was hired and given a MEGA contract for solely that reason you are high.

That MEGA contract was given to him after, and ONLY AFTER he had showed that he could win BIG and he did it three years in a row. This lead the powers that be that it would continue on. It was anticipated that this would only improve recruiting and that those three years would be the rule and not the rarity.

That fact is if Kirk had not had those three great years back, to back, to back he would never have gotten such a sweet deal of a contract. We all know that (those of us with a brain). Do you really think Kirk gets that contract if he just 7-5 those three years? No way. He may have gotten contract extension with your basic 2.7 million a year contract. Eventually that would have grown old for the fan base as MOST sports enthusiast have a desire to win at a hire level. Not everyone is a sports enthusiast however and apparently many there are many Iowa fans that aren’t true sports enthusiast. Sure they will love a great season but apparently they don’t expect it. They have come to expect and accept less, besides there is not a lot to do in Iowa so it’s like having a captive audience.

When Hayden Fry got here he said that the first thing that needed to change was the LOSER mind set. Rosebowl??? Wasn’t even a realistic thought in most Iowa fans minds. No one expects a perennial four win program to even conceive of win their conference and going to the Rosebowl. So what is a loser mind set? It’s for those people who put limitations on expectations for whatever reason. These same people except less and make up excuses for why it can’t be.

Now I am not saying Iowa should be the next Alabama. Alabama is a freak football program. We now have in the Iowa camp those who can’t even conceive of us arising to a annual Wisconsin level. This is sickening. Under Hayden we owned those bitches. Some of the apologist are making their excuses for this standard. Where does it stop? Northwestern? They also were Hayden’s bitchs. Now we are approaching a 50/50 chance of beating them.

ITS A SPORTING CONTEST not Sunday at church. The object is to win and to alter approaches in an attempt to continue to win. Not sitting cozy in a recliner (fat cat mindset) just maintaining a status quo.

Why do you think the major programs find themselves changing coaches when winning isn’t happening??? The Iowa States of the college football world just sit around making up rationalizations and excuses of why they can’t expect to play at the big table with the big boys. Is that what we want at IOWA? Oh by the way things may a cooking over in Ames, but how that turns out remains to be seen. At least they have decided to pay out a little money to see what happens when a coach shows some promise. Good grief I hate to talk about Iowa State. Can we at least shoot for Wisconsin level of football or is that to much for the Iowa fan base?

TL;DR

Can you summarize for me?

 

[1977Hawkeye]

Saturday did nothing to change my forecast for this season. To me, it looked much like a season opener from any other year. Solid D, but one-dimensional offense. 3 yards and a cloud of dust.

By the way, not a KF hater at all. Just realize we've settled into being a 7-5/8-4 program. Other than 2015 (and 2012) that's what we've been the past decade since the Orange Bowl. So I'm sticking with a 7-5/8-4 prediction. Odds are, that's what we'll get.

 

[deanvogs]

Meh, I'm fine with going 13-1 with a Rose Bowl win and finishing like 5th or 6th in the final poll. That's probably the high water mark for Iowa football. These teams in the South are just on a different level from Iowa and there's no way Iowa can roll out there and beat the east champ, then a team like Bama or Clemson then a team like Oklahoma or whoever else makes it. We'll just never have enough total studs in the secondary or on the outside on offense to do it. I'd rather go win the Rose Bowl than lose by 30 in the first game of the playoff.

College football is also consolidating more and more power around the blue bloods anyway. With the playoffs now, the odds of a great Iowa team, or even like a great Wisconsin team or MSU team of making the playoffs and then winning 2 games are slim to none. Wisconsin and MSU have been as good developmentally as any program in the country the last 10 years, and they simply don't have the talent and depth to beat two consecutive teams in the playoffs that recruit at an elite level that have 4* and 5* backups at every position. It is what it is, and if Iowa could become a 10+ win team more often, that is what I hope for.

 

[Jonrn]

Meh. I alternate between KF hater and being content with KF. I have resigned myself to the fact Iowa will never win three big games in a row needed to win the title no matter who the coach is. I hope for at least a Rose Bowl win, but maybe even that is a stretch. Ultimately, when I look at what has happened to programs like Florida State, Texas, Michigan and Tennessee, I can see a vision for Iowa football of just hoping the stars align in years we draw a softer schedule and making a run at the west every few years because we ain't gonna perpetually be good. Sure, there have been some hires that have made sense, but a lot of programs have gone straight into the shitter when they fire an old line steady coach, so I guess I'm content with Kirk, for now anyway.

I’m with you on this. I think unless you catch lightning in a bottle with a hire which is maybe 1 hire every two or three years across all of college football you are forever in your strata of success or heading downwards. Especially with Iowa’s geography and small population. The only program north of the Mason Dixon line that’s I’ll always be huge is Ohio state. Wisconsin, Oregon, penn state and Michigan are great programs, but haven’t enjoyed any sustained success like Clemson or Alabama are right now. If a ferentz of some sortcan keep Iowa in the mix at the top of the big ten west, I think that’s Iowa’s ceiling. I wish it were different, but it simply is that.

 

[okeefe4prez]

College football is also consolidating more and more power around the blue bloods anyway. With the playoffs now, the odds of a great Iowa team, or even like a great Wisconsin team or MSU team of making the playoffs and then winning 2 games are slim to none. Wisconsin and MSU have been as good developmentally as any program in the country the last 10 years, and they simply don't have the talent and depth to beat two consecutive teams in the playoffs that recruit at an elite level that have 4* and 5* backups at every position. It is what it is, and if Iowa could become a 10+ win team more often, that is what I hope for.

MSU has been better than Iowa at a lot of positions in the past 20 years, but you're right, that even they are a cut below. You look at that Georgia-Oklahoma playoff game and that was a game where there were just exceptional ball players on the outside. You'd probably need to compile a Wisconsin-Iowa-MSU all star team over a 10+ year period to have a comparable level of talent. Had Iowa beaten MSU in 2015 and drawn Alabama that would have been Iowa's ideal matchup because of the way Nick coaches the game, but even that would have come down to play after play of stellar execution in the trenches and Iowa's best hope would have to been to lose by 2 possessions.

The only star alignment under which Iowa could have won it all would have been for Shonn to come back in 2009 and Iowa to have somehow gotten into the title game that year against Bama. That was the only team that had enough talent at a lot of key positions to have even had a puncher's chance of beating a well balanced elite team. And even as good as that team was, I think it would have been maybe a 25% chance at best of winning.

 

[okeefe4prez]

I’m with you on this. I think unless you catch lightning in a bottle with a hire which is maybe 1 hire every two or three years across all of college football you are forever in your strata of success or heading downwards. Especially with Iowa’s geography and small population. The only program north of the Mason Dixon line that’s I’ll always be huge is Ohio state. Wisconsin, Oregon, penn state and Michigan are great programs, but haven’t enjoyed any sustained success like Clemson or Alabama are right now. If a ferentz of some sortcan keep Iowa in the mix at the top of the big ten west, I think that’s Iowa’s ceiling. I wish it were different, but it simply is that.

I'd cut your list down to Ohio State only. Oregon has fallen off a cliff. PSU is coming back, but Barkley really elevated that program. Wisconsin is probably the best "second tier" team but they cannot crack the code to get into the big boy's club. Michigan has fallen to second tier status. They've been at that level for over a decade and the kids they are recruiting now have no recollection of Michigan being a true national power. Notre Dame is probably in a similar boat to Michigan.

The blueprint for any team in the Big Ten West has to be a goal of taking advantage of opportunities when crossover years are weak and winning the division by displacing Wisconsin's monopoly and hoping that in years you take advantage you draw a winnable title game. Assuming an even distribution among Iowa, Wisconsin and Nebraska if they ever come back, that would be winning the West every 3-ish years and 3 times or so in a decade. Iowa really needs to strike a blow this year or next year.

I'm a big ten homer, but man the Big Ten West is a pretty shitty division once you get past Wisconsin right now. It's gonna get a lot worse in 20 years as population shifts south and high school football tanks in popularity in the north. For as much shit as I give Ferentz, I don't know that there is a lot that can be done to make Iowa materially better, but just one bad hire could relegate Iowa to Illinois status virtually overnight. When I was a kid Illinois was right there with Iowa as an antagonist against the Michigan-Ohio State dominance. Illinois even beat a solid Colorado team. They were really good, but then they hired a shitty athletic director who nosedived both football and basketball (remember how good they were at hoops???).

 

[Jonrn]

I do like it that Kirk instills into his players work ethic, discipline, perseverance, responsibility, and accountability. Those traits will serve those young men well if they carry them forward the rest of their lives. I have had several opportunities to lead and teach boys scouts, cub scouts, and several young men organizations in my lifetime. We teach them similar things, so I respect those parts of Kirk’s approach to coaching.

Seriously though I have doubts about whether you were ever obsessed with winning. That doesn’t just dissolve and go away.

Kirk was hired to be a football coach not the team minister. Those values should have been taught to these young men in their homes by their parents (or in some cases by their parent). Should it be a part of their being coached? Of course. However, if you think Kirk was hired and given a MEGA contract for solely that reason you are high.

That MEGA contract was given to him after, and ONLY AFTER he had showed that he could win BIG and he did it three years in a row. This lead the powers that be that it would continue on. It was anticipated that this would only improve recruiting and that those three years would be the rule and not the rarity.

That fact is if Kirk had not had those three great years back, to back, to back he would never have gotten such a sweet deal of a contract. We all know that (those of us with a brain). Do you really think Kirk gets that contract if he just 7-5 those three years? No way. He may have gotten contract extension with your basic 2.7 million a year contract. Eventually that would have grown old for the fan base as MOST sports enthusiast have a desire to win at a hire level. Not everyone is a sports enthusiast however and apparently many there are many Iowa fans that aren’t true sports enthusiast. Sure they will love a great season but apparently they don’t expect it. They have come to expect and accept less, besides there is not a lot to do in Iowa so it’s like having a captive audience.

When Hayden Fry got here he said that the first thing that needed to change was the LOSER mind set. Rosebowl??? Wasn’t even a realistic thought in most Iowa fans minds. No one expects a perennial four win program to even conceive of win their conference and going to the Rosebowl. So what is a loser mind set? It’s for those people who put limitations on expectations for whatever reason. These same people except less and make up excuses for why it can’t be.

Now I am not saying Iowa should be the next Alabama. Alabama is a freak football program. We now have in the Iowa camp those who can’t even conceive of us arising to a annual Wisconsin level. This is sickening. Under Hayden we owned those bitches. Some of the apologist are making their excuses for this standard. Where does it stop? Northwestern? They also were Hayden’s bitchs. Now we are approaching a 50/50 chance of beating them.

ITS A SPORTING CONTEST not Sunday at church. The object is to win and to alter approaches in an attempt to continue to win. Not sitting cozy in a recliner (fat cat mindset) just maintaining a status quo.

Why do you think the major programs find themselves changing coaches when winning isn’t happening??? The Iowa States of the college football world just sit around making up rationalizations and excuses of why they can’t expect to play at the big table with the big boys. Is that what we want at IOWA? Oh by the way things may a cooking over in Ames, but how that turns out remains to be seen. At least they have decided to pay out a little money to see what happens when a coach shows some promise. Good grief I hate to talk about Iowa State. Can we at least shoot for Wisconsin level of football or is that to much for the Iowa fan base?

I don’t

I'd cut your list down to Ohio State only. Oregon has fallen off a cliff. PSU is coming back, but Barkley really elevated that program. Wisconsin is probably the best "second tier" team but they cannot crack the code to get into the big boy's club. Michigan has fallen to second tier status. They've been at that level for over a decade and the kids they are recruiting now have no recollection of Michigan being a true national power. Notre Dame is probably in a similar boat to Michigan.

The blueprint for any team in the Big Ten West has to be a goal of taking advantage of opportunities when crossover years are weak and winning the division by displacing Wisconsin's monopoly and hoping that in years you take advantage you draw a winnable title game. Assuming an even distribution among Iowa, Wisconsin and Nebraska if they ever come back, that would be winning the West every 3-ish years and 3 times or so in a decade. Iowa really needs to strike a blow this year or next year.

I'm a big ten homer, but man the Big Ten West is a pretty shitty division once you get past Wisconsin right now. It's gonna get a lot worse in 20 years as population shifts south and high school football tanks in popularity in the north. For as much shit as I give Ferentz, I don't know that there is a lot that can be done to make Iowa materially better, but just one bad hire could relegate Iowa to Illinois status virtually overnight. When I was a kid Illinois was right there with Iowa as an antagonist against the Michigan-Ohio State dominance. Illinois even beat a solid Colorado team. They were really good, but then they hired a shitty athletic director who nosedived both football and basketball (remember how good they were at hoops???).

You are dead on, it’s going to become harder and harder for mid level teams like Iowa to catch up, Iowa’s traditional recruiting areas especially for skill positions are going to dry up as the game becomes more dangerous. The St Louis, KC, MSP and Chicago suburbs aren’t going to be hotbeds anymore. It’s going to be the south and small town Iowa guys (who I love, I’m one of them) keeping competitive in the West, a few 10 win seasons, an occasional trip to Indy is Iowa’s ceiling.

 

[BigD]

TL;DR

Can you summarize for me?

YES,

Is it too much to ask that we re-invent the offense?

 

[Jonrn]

I do like it that Kirk instills into his players work ethic, discipline, perseverance, responsibility, and accountability. Those traits will serve those young men well if they carry them forward the rest of their lives. I have had several opportunities to lead and teach boys scouts, cub scouts, and several young men organizations in my lifetime. We teach them similar things, so I respect those parts of Kirk’s approach to coaching.

Seriously though I have doubts about whether you were ever obsessed with winning. That doesn’t just dissolve and go away.

Kirk was hired to be a football coach not the team minister. Those values should have been taught to these young men in their homes by their parents (or in some cases by their parent). Should it be a part of their being coached? Of course. However, if you think Kirk was hired and given a MEGA contract for solely that reason you are high.

That MEGA contract was given to him after, and ONLY AFTER he had showed that he could win BIG and he did it three years in a row. This lead the powers that be that it would continue on. It was anticipated that this would only improve recruiting and that those three years would be the rule and not the rarity.

That fact is if Kirk had not had those three great years back, to back, to back he would never have gotten such a sweet deal of a contract. We all know that (those of us with a brain). Do you really think Kirk gets that contract if he just 7-5 those three years? No way. He may have gotten contract extension with your basic 2.7 million a year contract. Eventually that would have grown old for the fan base as MOST sports enthusiast have a desire to win at a hire level. Not everyone is a sports enthusiast however and apparently many there are many Iowa fans that aren’t true sports enthusiast. Sure they will love a great season but apparently they don’t expect it. They have come to expect and accept less, besides there is not a lot to do in Iowa so it’s like having a captive audience.

When Hayden Fry got here he said that the first thing that needed to change was the LOSER mind set. Rosebowl??? Wasn’t even a realistic thought in most Iowa fans minds. No one expects a perennial four win program to even conceive of win their conference and going to the Rosebowl. So what is a loser mind set? It’s for those people who put limitations on expectations for whatever reason. These same people except less and make up excuses for why it can’t be.

Now I am not saying Iowa should be the next Alabama. Alabama is a freak football program. We now have in the Iowa camp those who can’t even conceive of us arising to a annual Wisconsin level. This is sickening. Under Hayden we owned those bitches. Some of the apologist are making their excuses for this standard. Where does it stop? Northwestern? They also were Hayden’s bitchs. Now we are approaching a 50/50 chance of beating them.

ITS A SPORTING CONTEST not Sunday at church. The object is to win and to alter approaches in an attempt to continue to win. Not sitting cozy in a recliner (fat cat mindset) just maintaining a status quo.

Why do you think the major programs find themselves changing coaches when winning isn’t happening??? The Iowa States of the college football world just sit around making up rationalizations and excuses of why they can’t expect to play at the big table with the big boys. Is that what we want at IOWA? Oh by the way things may a cooking over in Ames, but how that turns out remains to be seen. At least they have decided to pay out a little money to see what happens when a coach shows some promise. Good grief I hate to talk about Iowa State. Can we at least shoot for Wisconsin level of football or is that to much for the Iowa fan base?

In my book 8-4 should be Iowa’s standard, however I don’t think it’s fair to compare fry’s NW and wiscy domination to now. Football is a dynamic landscape, Fitzgerald is a great coach and Alvarez elevated Wisconsin.

Of course I agree he’s overpaid, but that’s because Barta is an idiot and cornrich is a good agent. I don’t begrudge him. D1 football is a huge business, if you gave Kirk a check for million dollars I doubt he would even care. He’s not buying yachts and hookers. As far as everyone can tell he lives a quiet life outside IC refusing to join his HOA.

If Kirk were let go I wouldn’t be angry, but I would struggle with the question of who actually could come to Iowa and win more? I mean conceivable there are some diamonds in the rough out there who could, but would I trust Barta or a Barta replacement to actually make that hire? Hell no. Saban’s, Dabo’s and urbans aren’t coming out of the woodwork to coach Iowa.

 

[Jonrn]

YES,

Is it too much to ask that we re-invent the offense?

Sadly I think that yes, it is too much. We see it every week, Iowa coaches are unable to get top receiving talent to Iowa city, and watching a team run a more spread offense with no talent is horrific. You end up with Nebraska or Minnesota last year. Iowa’s pro-style offense can be infuriating, but with 3rd rate receivers and RBs its all we can hope for.

 

[BigD]

In my book 8-4 should be Iowa’s standard, however I don’t think it’s fair to compare fry’s NW and wiscy domination to now. Football is a dynamic landscape, Fitzgerald is a great coach and Alvarez elevated Wisconsin.

Of course I agree he’s overpaid, but that’s because Barta is an idiot and cornrich is a good agent. I don’t begrudge him. D1 football is a huge business, if you gave Kirk a check for million dollars I doubt he would even care. He’s not buying yachts and hookers. As far as everyone can tell he lives a quiet life outside IC refusing to join his HOA.

If Kirk were let go I wouldn’t be angry, but I would struggle with the question of who actually could come to Iowa and win more? I mean conceivable there are some diamonds in the rough out there who could, but would I trust Barta or a Barta replacement to actually make that hire? Hell no. Saban’s, Dabo’s and urbans aren’t coming out of the woodwork to coach Iowa.

Fair points.

It’s just hard to concede and give up the hope.

 

[BigD]

Sadly I think that yes, it is too much. We see it every week, Iowa coaches are unable to get top receiving talent to Iowa city, and watching a team run a more spread offense with no talent is horrific. You end up with Nebraska or Minnesota last year. Iowa’s pro-style offense can be infuriating, but with 3rd rate receivers and RBs its all we can hope for.

Ouch!!! The truth hurts sometimes.