What did each Big 10 team lose offensively...

[WindsorHawk]

This shows how much scoring each team is losing this year…want to be at the bottom of this list rather than the top. I will edit this post if/when other Big 10 players declare for the draft.

Indiana averaged 79 points per game and loses – Hulls 9.7, Watford 12.3, Zeller 16.5 and Oladipo 13.6 which is 66% of their scoring.

Illinois (68) – Griffey 7.2, McLaurin 3.8, Paul 16.6 and Richardson 12.3 = 59%

Nebraska (58) – Almeida 4.6, Talley 13.7 and Ubel 11.5 = 52%

Northwestern (61) – Marcotullio 5.2, Hearn 13.4, Swopshire 9.7 = 47%

Michigan (75) – Burke 18.6 and Hardaway 14.5 = 45%

Wisconsin (66) – Evans 10.1, Bruesewitz 6.4 and Berggren 11.0 = 42%

Ohio State (71) – Ravenel 4.9 and Thomas 19.8 = 35%

Minnesota (69) – Mbakwe 10.0 and Williams 10.1 = 30%

Purdue (66) – Byrd 10.1 and Johnson 4.9 = 23%

Michigan State (68) - Nix 9.9 = 15%

Iowa (70) – May 5.2 = 8%

Penn State (62) – Colella 4.0 = 7%

 

[WindsorHawk]

Anything that isn’t based on stats is just this guy’s opinion…like always.

Indiana – They likely get to play a Thursday game in next year’s BTT. They can’t replace the talent and experience they lose…don’t care how good their recruits are.

Illinois – They lost too much not to feel the pain. Their seniors did underperform in back to back years so the Groce factor is still an unknown.

Nebraska – I have read more than 1 post that has them moving up in the standings. I like their coach but too many people don’t realize how much they lost.

Northwestern – This is a bit misleading since their best player sat with an injury but he isn’t going to replace 47% of their scoring on his own. They also got rid of a very good coach running a gimmick offense that helped balance the talent disparity. Add in the unknown of a new coach and it looks pretty bleak.

Wisconsin – Bo will do his thing but is there a rebounder on the team? They lost their entire front court and I’m pretty sure at least two 5th year seniors.

Ohio State – Thomas scored points but didn’t help much on defense. Spread his offense around and get some defense out of his replacement and there is little pain felt here.

Minnesota – They are the opposite of Ohio State. What they lost goes way beyond just the scoring. They also lost 2 or 3 other players that were getting over 10 minutes a game…but not scoring much. Add in the coaching change and getting the 9 seed in the BTT again is probably exceeding expectations.

Michigan – If everyone but Burke returns they will be loaded with talent. It remains to be seen how many intangibles Burke added to the team. I can’t envision them playing on Thursday in the BTT again this year.

Purdue – They have a good coach and play Big 10 style basketball. Their key guys are back with a year of experience. Byrd brought leadership and energy but can be replaced. They should move up the standings (with Iowa). Can anyone on this team make 3s next year?

Michigan State – They have the coach. They have the players. All they lost was a thug that played dirty. It’s hard to see anyone beating them for the Big 10 championship. If anyone does it will probably be Appling…

Iowa – Seriously, I’m going to talk Iowa to this crowd on this board. See Purdue with more upside…right behind Michigan State in the standings battling Michigan and Ohio State.

Penn State – Yeah, I don’t know who Colella is either but he’s gone and averaged 4 points so I put him down. They get their best player back from injury and return everyone that matters. They will be tough at home and get some bottom feeders on the road. They played hard for their coach despite their record. Beware!

 

[activebadger]

Anything that isn’t based on stats is just this guy’s opinion…like always.

Indiana – They likely get to play a Thursday game in next year’s BTT. They can’t replace the talent and experience they lose…don’t care how good their recruits are.

Illinois – They lost too much not to feel the pain. Their seniors did underperform in back to back years so the Groce factor is still an unknown.

Nebraska – I have read more than 1 post that has them moving up in the standings. I like their coach but too many people don’t realize how much they lost.

Northwestern – This is a bit misleading since their best player sat with an injury but he isn’t going to replace 47% of their scoring on his own. They also got rid of a very good coach running a gimmick offense that helped balance the talent disparity. Add in the unknown of a new coach and it looks pretty bleak.

Wisconsin – Bo will do his thing but is there a rebounder on the team? They lost their entire front court and I’m pretty sure at least two 5th year seniors.

Ohio State – Thomas scored points but didn’t help much on defense. Spread his offense around and get some defense out of his replacement and there is little pain felt here.

Minnesota – They are the opposite of Ohio State. What they lost goes way beyond just the scoring. They also lost 2 or 3 other players that were getting over 10 minutes a game…but not scoring much. Add in the coaching change and getting the 9 seed in the BTT again is probably exceeding expectations.

Michigan – If everyone but Burke returns they will be loaded with talent. It remains to be seen how many intangibles Burke added to the team. I can’t envision them playing on Thursday in the BTT again this year.

Purdue – They have a good coach and play Big 10 style basketball. Their key guys are back with a year of experience. Byrd brought leadership and energy but can be replaced. They should move up the standings (with Iowa). Can anyone on this team make 3s next year?

Michigan State – They have the coach. They have the players. All they lost was a thug that played dirty. It’s hard to see anyone beating them for the Big 10 championship. If anyone does it will probably be Appling…

Iowa – Seriously, I’m going to talk Iowa to this crowd on this board. See Purdue with more upside…right behind Michigan State in the standings battling Michigan and Ohio State.

Penn State – Yeah, I don’t know who Colella is either but he’s gone and averaged 4 points so I put him down. They get their best player back from injury and return everyone that matters. They will be tough at home and get some bottom feeders on the road. They played hard for their coach despite their record. Beware!

Have you ever heard the famous saying "the good news is we have everybody back, the bad news is we have everybody back."?

You don't think bringing in a stud national recruiting class doesn't matter? That's what turned Indiana around in the first place when the brought in Zeller. Michigan almost won the title this year with a ton of frosh playing huge. Kentucky won it last year.

In regards to Illinois, they lost a lot on paper but did you ever see Paul or Richardson turn into leaders? They never did and they were also not winners. There's no saying Illinois couldn't be better next year without them.

Mbakwe and Williams were great physical specimens but they weren't great basketball players. If I was holding a dunk contest they'd be my first picks but not if I was playing a half court game and needed some smart plays.

MSU could still lose one or both of Gary Harris and Adriene Payne. McGary and GRIII could also be gone. Lot's of things still left up in the air.

Another huge factor that could determine the outcome is who plays who in the conference? Who do the key teams have to play twice vs. once. Iowa won't be able to dodge the Top 4-5 again this year.

 

[KirkNOTCharisma]

Another huge factor that could determine the outcome is who plays who in the conference? Who do the key teams have to play twice vs. once. Iowa won't be able to dodge the Top 4-5 again this year.

How do you realistically see Wisky finishing next year?

 

[ICHAWK]

How do you realistically see Wisky finishing next year?

I would put Wisconsin in the 4-6 range. They might start off the year looking ugly getting new players to mesh but come 3 weeks into the Big 10 season I would think they will look like Wisconsin always looks. They will play a lot of close ugly games. I think Sam Dekker will be improved and he has the size and pretty good athletic ability to help bail Wisconsin out at the end of shot clock and game situations. This is key for Wisconsin as they milk the shot clock and play close games. They need one player who can create something in both situations.

It is just so hard to predict big 10 standings with out knowing the schedule yet. The unbalanced schedlue can help a team gain a few spots in the standings if they avoid the right teams on the road.

I think Brando Paul actually played better last year. I don't think Illinois was all that talented really. I think they looked better at the begining than they actually were as a team.

Iowa should be pretty solid. I have no idea where they will finish but they are pretty solid I think.

 

[activebadger]

How do you realistically see Wisky finishing next year?

Somewhere in the top 4.

I won't know for sure until I hear more reports about Koenig and the 2 freshman bigs from Ohio. People will be surprised when they see the freshman bigs from Ohio as they aren't "prototypical Wisconsin post men." The weakness of this past season (the backcourt) will be the strength of next season. The strength of this past season (front court) will be the question mark of next season. Those close to program and watch it every year know that Frank Kaminsky is about to have his time to shine. He has a better shot, better post moves, better passer than any of Berggren, Evans or Bruesewitz but he has been lacking the physical strength. He started coming on at the end of the year though and most people think it's just a matter that he needs minutes and time to play. His stats are better than Berggren's his sophmore year and every big under Bo always makes a jump when they get a jump in minutes. Kaminsky is about an inch taller than Berggren.

Gasser and Koenig are tall guards (6-3 to 6-4), Jackson isn't tall but he's built so even if we go with 3 guard lineups which Bo has done several years, I think we'll be more than fine on defense.

I imagine the offensive concepts will look a little bit different next year and particularly the two years following that as this will be the most mobility Bo has had out of his bigs and Dekker is athletic and crafty. Bo hasn't run the Swing offense in at least 4-6 years (pretty much since Trevon Hughes era) no matter what the media says. I think Bo gets back to the early years of his time at Wisconsin, more posting of the guards, etc.

Wisconsin's non-conference schedule will be among the best in the nation. Marquette is on it every year and they are preseason Top 10, Florida is preseason Top 10, play @CAL, Wisconsin plays St. Louis in Mexico and I would gather Wisconsin would get someone good in the ACC challenge. There is also talk of another home and home with a Top 10 program in the works. I wouldn't be surprised to see Wisconsin drop 3-4 of those games again this season in the non-con and then be ready to roll once again in the BIG. That schedule will have prepared us.

 

[activebadger]

I don't really know the reasons for all of the defections at Purdue (chemistry issue perhaps?) but they lost some key guys as well.

MSU is the team to beat if Payne and Harris return, they'll be good regardless of whether both leave but maybe not Top 10 good. I see the conference as being down at the top next year and better at the bottom end. BIG won't get the national attention as Indiana will be perceived to be down and it'll be hard to replicate the out of conference success from this past season.

 

[WindsorHawk]

Have you ever heard the famous saying "the good news is we have everybody back, the bad news is we have everybody back."?

You don't think bringing in a stud national recruiting class doesn't matter? That's what turned Indiana around in the first place when the brought in Zeller. Michigan almost won the title this year with a ton of frosh playing huge. Kentucky won it last year.

In regards to Illinois, they lost a lot on paper but did you ever see Paul or Richardson turn into leaders? They never did and they were also not winners. There's no saying Illinois couldn't be better next year without them.

Mbakwe and Williams were great physical specimens but they weren't great basketball players. If I was holding a dunk contest they'd be my first picks but not if I was playing a half court game and needed some smart plays.

MSU could still lose one or both of Gary Harris and Adriene Payne. McGary and GRIII could also be gone. Lot's of things still left up in the air.

Another huge factor that could determine the outcome is who plays who in the conference? Who do the key teams have to play twice vs. once. Iowa won't be able to dodge the Top 4-5 again this year.

Yes, stud recruiting classes are of major importance. Iowa had 3 freshmen in their rotation this year. We don't finish alone in 6th or make the NIT finals without them. There's no way of knowing for sure what freshmen will contribute. Now if you ask nicely an adult friend of yours might read the heading of this thread to you. "What did each Big 10 team lose offensively?" No team lost incoming freshmen. Do you understand what this thread is about? You have to avoid this board if the threads are at such a high level as to confuse you.

Illinois - They will not replace Paul and/or Richardson with better players.

Minnesota - They won't replace Mbakwe or Williams with better players.

Michigan State - Again get someone to help you with the higher level reading in this thread. The list will be updated as other players declare for the draft...hasn't happened in the 3 hours since my original post.

Iowa - Iowa was at a disadvantage not playing Michigan, Michigan State and Ohio State twice. We most likely win both of the home games. If we could have played Wisconsin 5 more times we could have gotten another 4 to 5 wins...depending on whether Wisconsin could get 1 win on another lucky bounce.

The good news is Iowa will be so good next year it doesn't matter which players come and go elsewhere. I'm hoping we get 8 games against the 4 teams in the top 5 with us AND 2 against Wisconsin. Wisconsin won't be in the top 5 but it's fun beating up on Bo and his boys.

 

[activebadger]

Yes, stud recruiting classes are of major importance. Iowa had 3 freshmen in their rotation this year. We don't finish alone in 6th or make the NIT finals without them. There's no way of knowing for sure what freshmen will contribute. Now if you ask nicely an adult friend of yours might read the heading of this thread to you. "What did each Big 10 team lose offensively?" No team lost incoming freshmen. Do you understand what this thread is about? You have to avoid this board if the threads are at such a high level as to confuse you.

Illinois - They will not replace Paul and/or Richardson with better players.

Minnesota - They won't replace Mbakwe or Williams with better players.

Michigan State - Again get someone to help you with the higher level reading in this thread. The list will be updated as other players declare for the draft...hasn't happened in the 3 hours since my original post.

Iowa - Iowa was at a disadvantage not playing Michigan, Michigan State and Ohio State twice. We most likely win both of the home games. If we could have played Wisconsin 5 more times we could have gotten another 4 to 5 wins...depending on whether Wisconsin could get 1 win on another lucky bounce.

The good news is Iowa will be so good next year it doesn't matter which players come and go elsewhere. I'm hoping we get 8 games against the 4 teams in the top 5 with us AND 2 against Wisconsin. Wisconsin won't be in the top 5 but it's fun beating up on Bo and his boys.

It's fun looking down in the standings and seeing Iowa below us....

It's fun tuning into the CBS selection sunday special and not seeing Iowa. In fact I can't remember the last season I did see them?

 

[activebadger]

The implication of the thread is what each team lost as a means to predict their future success. Games aren't played on paper and just because one team returned quite a few players doesn't mean anything. In fact Kentucky LOST their biggest stud and are predicted to do better.

Also it doesn't account for player development. There are only 100 available minutes to be divvied up per team. Just because player A graduated and took his 26mpg with him doesn't mean that his production can't be replaced by another player filling into that role or 2-3 people filling those minutes. I'd trust coaches like Izzo and Bo could piece together winners even if their entire roster flipped. The good coaches have back up plans on top of their back up plans. It doesn't mean it isn't a struggle, but they usually get it done.

 

[Bigtenchamp]

It's fun looking down in the standings and seeing Iowa below us....

It's fun tuning into the CBS selection sunday special and not seeing Iowa. In fact I can't remember the last season I did see them?

It's fun going to a website where people actually care about college sports and not the green bay packers....

 

[activebadger]

It's fun going to a website where people actually care about college sports and not the green bay packers....

I wasn't born in Wisconsin, I'm not a Packers fan. In fact I lived in Iowa longer than I ever lived in Wisconsin. Bears and Cubs fan if you must know.

Back to the topic at hand. It's hard to know at this point who the good teams are to miss. If Michigan loses ALL of their potential early entrants, I'd love to get them twice especially early in the season when their stud frosh probably aren't as seasoned. Not only is it who you play but WHEN you play them. Are they coming off of multiple difficult games, is your opponent coming off of a week off, coming off of a rivalry game, etc.

Iowa got Wisconsin at Carver at the perfect time. Just came off of a huge emotional win in Bloomington and then had to play Iowa on Chris Street night.

 

[UncleHawk]

Somewhere in the top 4.

I won't know for sure until I hear more reports about Koenig and the 2 freshman bigs from Ohio. People will be surprised when they see the freshman bigs from Ohio as they aren't "prototypical Wisconsin post men." The weakness of this past season (the backcourt) will be the strength of next season. The strength of this past season (front court) will be the question mark of next season. Those close to program and watch it every year know that Frank Kaminsky is about to have his time to shine. He has a better shot, better post moves, better passer than any of Berggren, Evans or Bruesewitz but he has been lacking the physical strength. He started coming on at the end of the year though and most people think it's just a matter that he needs minutes and time to play. His stats are better than Berggren's his sophmore year and every big under Bo always makes a jump when they get a jump in minutes. Kaminsky is about an inch taller than Berggren.

Gasser and Koenig are tall guards (6-3 to 6-4), Jackson isn't tall but he's built so even if we go with 3 guard lineups which Bo has done several years, I think we'll be more than fine on defense.

I imagine the offensive concepts will look a little bit different next year and particularly the two years following that as this will be the most mobility Bo has had out of his bigs and Dekker is athletic and crafty. Bo hasn't run the Swing offense in at least 4-6 years (pretty much since Trevon Hughes era) no matter what the media says. I think Bo gets back to the early years of his time at Wisconsin, more posting of the guards, etc.

Wisconsin's non-conference schedule will be among the best in the nation. Marquette is on it every year and they are preseason Top 10, Florida is preseason Top 10, play @CAL, Wisconsin plays St. Louis in Mexico and I would gather Wisconsin would get someone good in the ACC challenge. There is also talk of another home and home with a Top 10 program in the works. I wouldn't be surprised to see Wisconsin drop 3-4 of those games again this season in the non-con and then be ready to roll once again in the BIG. That schedule will have prepared us.

The only returning and incoming big man of any proven quality is Kaminsky. WI rebounding will go down after having a average year at that statistically last year. Unless Bo finds another 4-5 that can handle heavy minutes, Dekker will spend a lot of time at the 4 by default. They better post up the guards. That's the overwhelming type of player that will be on the floor for Bo. Can't see WI picked higher than 5- probably 5-7 depending on how the rb and post defense situations play out.

 

[UncleHawk]

I don't really know the reasons for all of the defections at Purdue (chemistry issue perhaps?) but they lost some key guys as well.

MSU is the team to beat if Payne and Harris return, they'll be good regardless of whether both leave but maybe not Top 10 good. I see the conference as being down at the top next year and better at the bottom end. BIG won't get the national attention as Indiana will be perceived to be down and it'll be hard to replicate the out of conference success from this past season.

MSU will be the team to beat if all return but they won't be deep in quality players even then so their leader-of-the-pack status could change easily with minor injuries as the season rolls on.

 

[activebadger]

The only returning and incoming big man of any proven quality is Kaminsky. WI rebounding will go down after having a average year at that statistically last year. Unless Bo finds another 4-5 that can handle heavy minutes, Dekker will spend a lot of time at the 4 by default. They better post up the guards. That's the overwhelming type of player that will be on the floor for Bo. Can't see WI picked higher than 5- probably 5-7 depending on how the rb and post defense situations play out.

They'll be just fine. They only need to find one more big for heavy minutes and between Hayes, Brown, Evan Anderson and Duje Dukan, they've got 4 players to split minutes for 1 spot essentially.

If people pick us 5-7 then they'll look like uniformed idiots like they always do. I hope people do pick us there, it's that much more fun to say I told you so at the end of the season

 

[tm3308]

The implication of the thread is what each team lost as a means to predict their future success. Games aren't played on paper and just because one team returned quite a few players doesn't mean anything. In fact Kentucky LOST their biggest stud and are predicted to do better.

Also it doesn't account for player development. There are only 100 available minutes to be divvied up per team. Just because player A graduated and took his 26mpg with him doesn't mean that his production can't be replaced by another player filling into that role or 2-3 people filling those minutes. I'd trust coaches like Izzo and Bo could piece together winners even if their entire roster flipped. The good coaches have back up plans on top of their back up plans. It doesn't mean it isn't a struggle, but they usually get it done.

Well considering that no school has ever brought in a recruiting class as loaded as the one Kentucky currently has (much less what they'd have if Wiggins signs with them), I think it's fair to say they aren't an accurate barometer of what freshman will do for a given program. Only 18 schools can land a top 18 recruit; Kentucky has hoarded a third of that so far.

 

[tm3308]

They'll be just fine. They only need to find one more big for heavy minutes and between Hayes, Brown, Evan Anderson and Duje Dukan, they've got 4 players to split minutes for 1 spot essentially.

If people pick us 5-7 then they'll look like uniformed idiots like they always do. I hope people do pick us there, it's that much more fun to say I told you so at the end of the season

And it'll be fun for the rest of us when the day comes that they actually do finish outside the top four, and you're nowhere to be found. That day will come; maybe not next year, but it won't be in the too distant future. When Bo hangs it up, Wisconsin basketball will be at a pretty serious crossroad.

 

[Foval21]

And it'll be fun for the rest of us when the day comes that they actually do finish outside the top four, and you're nowhere to be found. That day will come; maybe not next year, but it won't be in the too distant future. When Bo hangs it up, Wisconsin basketball will be at a pretty serious crossroad.

I know that they tied for fourth or whatever this year. But in my view that isn't actually being fourth in the league as others also have claim to it.

 

[hawkfan33]

I know that they tied for fourth or whatever this year. But in my view that isn't actually being fourth in the league as others also have claim to it.

Wisconsin was the 4 seed to the B10 tournament.

 

[WindsorHawk]

Somewhere in the top 4.

I won't know for sure until I hear more reports about Koenig and the 2 freshman bigs from Ohio. People will be surprised when they see the freshman bigs from Ohio as they aren't "prototypical Wisconsin post men." The weakness of this past season (the backcourt) will be the strength of next season. The strength of this past season (front court) will be the question mark of next season. Those close to program and watch it every year know that Frank Kaminsky is about to have his time to shine. He has a better shot, better post moves, better passer than any of Berggren, Evans or Bruesewitz but he has been lacking the physical strength. He started coming on at the end of the year though and most people think it's just a matter that he needs minutes and time to play. His stats are better than Berggren's his sophmore year and every big under Bo always makes a jump when they get a jump in minutes. Kaminsky is about an inch taller than Berggren.

Gasser and Koenig are tall guards (6-3 to 6-4), Jackson isn't tall but he's built so even if we go with 3 guard lineups which Bo has done several years, I think we'll be more than fine on defense.

I imagine the offensive concepts will look a little bit different next year and particularly the two years following that as this will be the most mobility Bo has had out of his bigs and Dekker is athletic and crafty. Bo hasn't run the Swing offense in at least 4-6 years (pretty much since Trevon Hughes era) no matter what the media says. I think Bo gets back to the early years of his time at Wisconsin, more posting of the guards, etc.

Wisconsin's non-conference schedule will be among the best in the nation. Marquette is on it every year and they are preseason Top 10, Florida is preseason Top 10, play @CAL, Wisconsin plays St. Louis in Mexico and I would gather Wisconsin would get someone good in the ACC challenge. There is also talk of another home and home with a Top 10 program in the works. I wouldn't be surprised to see Wisconsin drop 3-4 of those games again this season in the non-con and then be ready to roll once again in the BIG. That schedule will have prepared us.

Top 4? I thought you knew nothing about Big 10 basketball and now I know I've been giving you too much credit...and I was giving you no credit.