Welcome to the Tom Davis era of Hawkeye Football

[HawkeyeTech]

All you've got to do is support your comment with facts. I provided plenty to support my opinion. I'm guessing you don't have any to support yours. That's why your post was as short as it was.....ignorant.
Come with it.

I have 50 years of watching and listening to Hawkeye basketball and understand that NCAA bids don't just fall off trees unless you are Duke or Kentucky, et al. Getting to the tourney 9 out of 13 years and never losing a first round game are facts enough for me. Maybe you think recruiting to Iowa is easy. I don't. I still haven't figured out what Raveling was doing to get the recruits he got as no one else has been able to duplicate his success. Lute couldn't do it. Alford couldn't.

Here's a fact for ya: Coach K took Duke to the NIT in his first year, stayed home the next two years, and made the 2nd round in years four and five. Fire the bum!

 

[oldhawk12]

I have 50 years of watching and listening to Hawkeye basketball and understand that NCAA bids don't just fall off trees unless you are Duke or Kentucky, et al. Getting to the tourney 9 out of 13 years and never losing a first round game are facts enough for me. Maybe you think recruiting to Iowa is easy. I don't. I still haven't figured out what Raveling was doing to get the recruits he got as no one else has been able to duplicate his success. Lute couldn't do it. Alford couldn't.

Here's a fact for ya: Coach K took Duke to the NIT in his first year, stayed home the next two years, and made the 2nd round in years four and five. Fire the bum!

Raveling was tight with Sonny Vaccaro & ran the camp/AAU circuit. It is well documented that Davis did not devote a huge amount of time to building those relationships...thus the spotty recruiting. He also reached hard on Iowa kids & several are still clowned upon all these years later. Again, TD made the tourney by stacking wins over horrible non-con teams & split the B10 slate. In the old days, the power conferences made it w/ 18 or more wins. TD also got a high seed due to being a power conference team & then won the first round game due to the press & short prep time for the opponent.

 

[lightning1]

I have 50 years of watching and listening to Hawkeye basketball and understand that NCAA bids don't just fall off trees unless you are Duke or Kentucky, et al. Getting to the tourney 9 out of 13 years and never losing a first round game are facts enough for me. Maybe you think recruiting to Iowa is easy. I don't. I still haven't figured out what Raveling was doing to get the recruits he got as no one else has been able to duplicate his success. Lute couldn't do it. Alford couldn't.

Here's a fact for ya: Coach K took Duke to the NIT in his first year, stayed home the next two years, and made the 2nd round in years four and five. Fire the bum!

I can see that 50 years hasn't taught you much. Look at Tom Davis's trajectory vs Coach K's. Tom Davis STARTED near the top and by year 4 he was at tge bottom. Coach K started at the bottom and in year 4 had IMPROVED dramatically! That's the reason you fire one and not the other. And Ive been watching Iowa basketball for 35 years. That doesn't mean I could coach the game and it certainly doesnt mean you understand it.

 

[deanvogs]

I can see that 50 years hasn't taught you much. Look at Tom Davis's trajectory vs Coach K's. Tom Davis STARTED near the top and by year 4 he was at tge bottom. Coach K started at the bottom and in year 4 had IMPROVED dramatically! That's the reason you fire one and not the other. And Ive been watching Iowa basketball for 35 years. That doesn't mean I could coach the game and it certainly doesnt mean you understand it.

Common Lightning, no need to rip on those who don't hate on Mr. Davis. You certainly have your perspective, but as we have seen since he left, making 9 out of 13 NCAA tourneys isn't easy. Iowa has made 4 NCAA tourney's since he left in what 16 years now? Mr. Davis may not have been the best, but he was a damn sight better than Raveling, AlFraud, Lick and so far Fran (jury is still out yet obviously).

 

[lightning1]

Common Lightning, no need to rip on those who don't hate on Mr. Davis. You certainly have your perspective, but as we have seen since he left, making 9 out of 13 NCAA tourneys isn't easy. Iowa has made 4 NCAA tourney's since he left in what 16 years now? Mr. Davis may not have been the best, but he was a damn sight better than Raveling, AlFraud, Lick and so far Fran (jury is still out yet obviously).

You're right but he started it!!

 

[PCHawk]

Common Lightning, no need to rip on those who don't hate on Mr. Davis. You certainly have your perspective, but as we have seen since he left, making 9 out of 13 NCAA tourneys isn't easy. Iowa has made 4 NCAA tourney's since he left in what 16 years now? Mr. Davis may not have been the best, but he was a damn sight better than Raveling, AlFraud, Lick and so far Fran (jury is still out yet obviously).

Using lightning's arguement that it was easier to get into the tournament back then than it is now, Fran would have made it 2 years ago and will probably make it this year. That would be 3 strait years after the 2 years of rebuilding.

Not sure if you agree with his arguement or not but if you do, you should factor that in when judging Fran.

 

[deanvogs]

Using lightning's arguement that it was easier to get into the tournament back then than it is now, Fran would have made it 2 years ago and will probably make it this year. That would be 3 strait years after the 2 years of rebuilding.

Not sure if you agree with his arguement or not but if you do, you should factor that in when judging Fran.

I have been somewhat critical of Fran this year. I'm not going to factor in that kind of logic personally, you are free to do so if you like. I don't really buy it, and even if it has changed, the goal is the NCAA tournament, and it is what it is. I do think we had a NCAA quality team 2 years ago, and Fran failed to make it, I think we had a 4-6 seed quality team last year and he failed to achieve that. I think we have a NCAA quality team this year, and the jury is still out. I think we make it again this year, I can get fully behind Fran......if he fails to make it this year it will be hard for me to support 1 NCAA appearance in 5 years.

 

[PCHawk]

I have been somewhat critical of Fran this year. I'm not going to factor in that kind of logic personally, you are free to do so if you like. I don't really buy it, and even if it has changed, the goal is the NCAA tournament, and it is what it is. I do think we had a NCAA quality team 2 years ago, and Fran failed to make it, I think we had a 4-6 seed quality team last year and he failed to achieve that. I think we have a NCAA quality team this year, and the jury is still out. I think we make it again this year, I can get fully behind Fran......if he fails to make it this year it will be hard for me to support 1 NCAA appearance in 5 years.

I just don't see how you could say Davis did a good job in one breath and say Fran isn't in another when they are doing the same job. The only thing that is different is the tournament selection due to RPI favoring mid majors and the selection committee's love with Cinderellas. Now if you want to say that Fran's job doesn't cut it in today's game and Davis' s job wouldn't either, I can understand that.

 

[PCHawk]

I have been somewhat critical of Fran this year. I'm not going to factor in that kind of logic personally, you are free to do so if you like. I don't really buy it, and even if it has changed, the goal is the NCAA tournament, and it is what it is. I do think we had a NCAA quality team 2 years ago, and Fran failed to make it, I think we had a 4-6 seed quality team last year and he failed to achieve that. I think we have a NCAA quality team this year, and the jury is still out. I think we make it again this year, I can get fully behind Fran......if he fails to make it this year it will be hard for me to support 1 NCAA appearance in 5 years.

Also the expectations were there because of the incredibly good job Fran was doing. To have expectations of making the tournament in year 3 after is nothing short of amazing. He missed those expectations that he created by 1 game. It's just such a huge swing to be a really good job to make the tournament but he sucks and should be fired for missing it by 1 game. It's also so unfair to use the 1 tournament in 5 years stat when you know that it would have been impossible for anyone to get there in the first 2 years.

 

[deanvogs]

I just don't see how you could say Davis did a good job in one breath and say Fran isn't in another when they are doing the same job. The only thing that is different is the tournament selection due to RPI favoring mid majors and the selection committee's love with Cinderellas. Now if you want to say that Fran's job doesn't cut it in today's game and Davis' s job wouldn't either, I can understand that.

As I keep repeating over and over again....If Fran makes the NCAA this year I'm good with the job he is doing. The only way I become discontent is if he doesn't make it. If he doesn't make it that is 1 NCAA trip in 5 years. The knock against Mr. Davis wasn't making the NCAA, it was that he didn't get to enough sweet 16's. Apples and oranges.....

If you want to argue that Fran would have made more tourney's in Dr. Toms day, I'm just not going there. It is an impossible argument to have, no reason to go down that road. The name of the game is results, and making the NCAA tournament.

 

[deanvogs]

Also the expectations were there because of the incredibly good job Fran was doing. To have expectations of making the tournament in year 3 after is nothing short of amazing. He missed those expectations that he created by 1 game. It's just such a huge swing to be a really good job to make the tournament but he sucks and should be fired for missing it by 1 game. It's also so unfair to use the 1 tournament in 5 years stat when you know that it would have been impossible for anyone to get there in the first 2 years.

Listen PC, we just aren't going to agree on this. As I keep saying I am only discontent if we can't make the NCAA yet again. 1 out of 5 years (I don't care how big a hole you are in) isn't getting it done on the BB court in my opinion. I'm not trying to rag on those who think he should get more than that, I just don't think that you are going to be successful in years 6 or 7 if you haven't gotten it done by year 5, and nothing you say will convince me otherwise (Like nothing I say will sway you). As I keep saying once again this is if they don't make it this year, which it is looking like they will at this point barring another epic collapse.

 

[PCHawk]

I don't know, I think I can convince you if I keep trying.

 

[racerhawk]

I don't know, I think I can convince you if I keep trying.

I think you're doing a pretty good job.

The theme that goes through all these arguments re: KF, Raveling, TD, Fran....is talent.

KF isn't winning today, in my opinion, because he doesn't have enough talent on the field. Our linebackers this year prolly would have trouble starting at Bowling Green. When Fran took over, there was zero talent. People mentioned TD's recruiting and subsequent decline in wins over the years. Raveling recruited a ton of talent, but wasn't at Iowa a long time. It looks like some of those players did pretty well.

Both sports need to be more competitive in terms of recruiting, and we'll see the results. Results come more quickly in b ball. I have more faith that Fran will get some athletes...MUCH less so in KF's ability to do this. Thoughts?

 

[lightning1]

Using lightning's arguement that it was easier to get into the tournament back then than it is now, Fran would have made it 2 years ago and will probably make it this year. That would be 3 strait years after the 2 years of rebuilding.

Not sure if you agree with his arguement or not but if you do, you should factor that in when judging Fran.

I never argued that it was easier to make the NCAA tourney back then. Not sure how you came to that conclusion from what I posted but I'd be interested in an explanation.

 

[PCHawk]

I never argued that it was easier to make the NCAA tourney back then. Not sure how you came to that conclusion from what I posted but I'd be interested in an explanation.

I might have referenced the wrong person. If so sorry. I was refering to whoever said back then all you had to do is schedule an easy non conference, then go .500 in conference to get to 20 wins and you will get in. That's not the case any more. That's exactly what Fran did 2 years ago and he didn't get in.

 

[PCHawk]

I think you're doing a pretty good job.

The theme that goes through all these arguments re: KF, Raveling, TD, Fran....is talent.

KF isn't winning today, in my opinion, because he doesn't have enough talent on the field. Our linebackers this year prolly would have trouble starting at Bowling Green. When Fran took over, there was zero talent. People mentioned TD's recruiting and subsequent decline in wins over the years. Raveling recruited a ton of talent, but wasn't at Iowa a long time. It looks like some of those players did pretty well.

Both sports need to be more competitive in terms of recruiting, and we'll see the results. Results come more quickly in b ball. I have more faith that Fran will get some athletes...MUCH less so in KF's ability to do this. Thoughts?

I think Fran is on the cusp of bringing in recruits we haven't seen at iowa since Raveling. We will know soon because the stink that was on our program a few years ago is gone. Juniors now were in 6th grade when Lick coached. The croud is back and the wins are back. If we make the tournament this year, it will be 2 years in a row. That's enough to atteact good players.

I have zero faith in Kirk to do anything good any more. I'll leave it at that.

 

[pekurhawk]

Isnt this a football forum?

 

[racerhawk]

I think Fran is on the cusp of bringing in recruits we haven't seen at iowa since Raveling. We will know soon because the stink that was on our program a few years ago is gone. Juniors now were in 6th grade when Lick coached. The croud is back and the wins are back. If we make the tournament this year, it will be 2 years in a row. That's enough to atteact good players.

I have zero faith in Kirk to do anything good any more. I'll leave it at that.

I agree completely. I think this year is important for Fran. I think he is getting it done. They just need to keep improving throughout the year. I hope the new guys provide the athleticism that has been missing at times. I think they will.

If Iowa makes the tourney again, I think it's "game on" and Iowa truly will be back. On the other hand (and it pains me to say this because I'm a season ticket holder for football), I have very, very little faith that the glory days will return under KF.