The other thing you have to consider is the culture down there. In many ways, poor blacks (which I assume covers very healthy majority of the players interacting with the "bag men") are still conditioned to be very deferential to whites. If a white guy with a lot of money who has taken on the tone of a caring/helpful but serious uncle with these guys, you could understand that might up the "clam up" factor in this situation.
we all know the $EC cheats, but here are the details
- Thread starter mrolympia
- Start date
There are plenty of good reasons to keep quiet, but it only takes a few leaks to blow up the whole thing. For instance, somebody's momma could have a guilty conscience and talk about it. Or somebody brags to his buddy and the buddy talks to others. Or some kid doesn't get enough or gets injured or something and decides to sell his story to SI. Or some bagman wants to take down another bagman so he leaks evidence.
I just can't believe that this can be happening widely and kept quiet. As a marketplace, information has to be known, but how do you keep the information only for those who are supposed to know. Further, it is not uncommon for players and fans to drink or smoke pot, both of which might lead them to opening up to someone that they might not otherwise tell.
HawkeyeMHA
Well-Known Member
Interesting article. How many bag men do you think we have?
Its not a coincidence that Iowa gets so many kids from that conference of small town high schools like West Branch or Augusta or Solon. Its real competitive territory with lots of teams going after kids, we have to bring out the big guns to get kids to come all the way to Iowa City.
DP5555
Well-Known Member
You aren't very bright are you?
DP5555
Well-Known Member
It isn't a matter of keeping it quiet. It's a matter of removing all evidence. Cash is not evidence. Of course, at some point someone is going to talk, but if you don't have any evidence you can talk all you want and nothing is going to come of it. These guys have it figured out. It's way beyond anything I even imagined. To the point they are taking kids who were paid while playing and didn't make it to the NFL, turning them into area coaches and gym teachers, and then having them funnel other kids back in their direction. It's a giant tight knit circle, and it's actually seems pretty damn fool proof.
Actually, DP, I actually laughed out loud at this one. CLEARLY a sarcastic bit of humor. I wish I would have thought of it myself.
DP5555
Well-Known Member
Haha.... Well I'm pretty sure that's his gig. Just goes around making stupid comments.
HawkeyeMHA
Well-Known Member
Me too
hawkfan1319
Well-Known Member
lmao as bad as we recruit none. The top dynasties are the ones with the most money being handed out.
The article was clear. It's all about evidence, or lack thereof. If done right its simply one persons word over another. That's not enough to get anyone in trouble.
Also as far as players saying things...players make these claims all the time. They are instantly discredited and labelled liars, disgruntled, vengeful, etc. remember Maurice clarett? Does anyone think he made all that stuff up? Ohio st told us it was a lie, so it was accepted that he's a liar. After all who are you going to believe THE Ohio state or Maurice clarett?
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=1919059
Also as far as players saying things...players make these claims all the time. They are instantly discredited and labelled liars, disgruntled, vengeful, etc. remember Maurice clarett? Does anyone think he made all that stuff up? Ohio st told us it was a lie, so it was accepted that he's a liar. After all who are you going to believe THE Ohio state or Maurice clarett?
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=1919059
Fool proof? Nah. If it were this widespread, we would be hearing more about it. Using cash doesn't remove evidence if people are talking. And these guys would talk, especially after downing a 6-pack.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
Apparently not, since very few schools get caught, even down south where it's pretty well known to be standard practice. Maybe they're just better at it than you think. Just because you or your buddies would go blabbing at the drop of the hat, doesn't mean that guys who treat the success of their football programs as a life and death matter would do the same. As for the players, like someone already posted, it wouldn't take much to discredit them. There is very little proof to be found if it's done right. And it's not surprising that the SEC (as well as some other top schools) has it down to a science.
DP5555
Well-Known Member
Ya I agree with tm. Clearly you didn't read the article very well. These guys aren't talking. Sure they talk about it to each other, but he made it very clear how they do their business. One persons word isn't enough to convict an entire institution of cheating. I don't even think cash can be used for a conviction because it doesn't have a paper trail.... meaning there's no proof where it came from. There are those who perform illegal activities in a reckless manner and get caught, and there are those who are smart enough to think ahead about things before proceeding. These guys have their i's dotted and their t's crossed. It appears they've been doing it for quite some time. If you think a little drunk talk would be enough to bring them down you are wrong. Hell even if someone heard about it that wasn't supposed to down South no one is going to be "the rat" because every school does it. They don't want their own favorite school to lose this advantage.
I know that the article makes it sound like it is airtight, but I just don't believe it. I don't think bagman who are fans of a single team can keep that quiet. And some of the rats might include bagmen of of other teams or other do-gooders. The intensity of the Auburn/Alabama rivalry is just too intense to not have somebody making some claims against another. And once someone is outed, they would essentially be put out of business even if not convicted because people would be watching them. Yet, you hear very few people being accused, even though people are being accused of other stuff all the time (think the way politicians go after each other during an election). If these guys are so good at conducting secret business, then at least occasionally, it would make sense for them to out a bagman for their rival.
NCHawker
Well-Known Member
The conference people in the SEC prevailed upon the various schools that it was in their best interest to stop ratting each other out. So you don't see various schools crying foul anymore down there. They each quietly accept the burden of out hustling each other, so to speak.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
These guys aren't politicians, and their business isn't like an election campaign. In terms of its structure and operation, it's much more like a cartel or the mob. Getting guys in THOSE operations to rat on anyone, friend or foe, is pretty difficult. IRL, the mob just goes out and kills someone that it needs out of the way. They don't rat to the cops.
Believe what you want, but we all know that this kind of cheating is pretty rampant down south. So we're left with two choices: that it really is a very well organized operation, as described in the story, and few ever get caught; or it's a slew of unconnected instances, which would be incredibly sloppy, and very few ever get caught.
Which sounds more believable?
DP5555
Well-Known Member
It's not only that it's very difficult to find someone who's willing to talk. Even if they are willing to talk these guys go about their business by making sure there is no evidence! So let's say someone does try to rat out a rival... well in order to do that they have to have hard evidence. The way these guys operate it seems as though hard evidence would be incredibly difficult to come by.
Clearly they've been doing this for a long time. If former players are now coaches and PE teachers in those geographical regions who are now helping send kids in the direction of these guys then that right there proves it's been going on awhile. The fact nothing has happened yet should be proof enough to you that the system they are running is working very well.
